Anyone successfully moved from fixed term contracts to open ended after 4 years?

[Nion]

I'm forward planning here. There's a rule whereby if you've been on (extended) fixed term academic contracts for more than 4 years you have the right to request a permanent (open) position, subject to conditions I'm sure but apparently you cannot be refused because funding will cease.
Technically this is something I should be able to do.
Has anyone experience of doing so?
Successfully or not?

[qudylogra]

You will get more helpful answers if you indicate the subject area and type of university. I would also advise directly discussing with senior people in your department, rather than trying to force their hands using employment law.

In departments where there are many long term research fellows & little capacity for additional permanent appointments you would not be able to to trigger a permanent position just because you have been there for four years. (Funding ceasing is only part of the story - you can be made redundant citing lack of business need for your post.) In departments that have more turnover in staff and need for somebody in your area you could have higher chances.

I have never known a case of somebody successfully converting to permanent without the support of the department and without there being a need for somebody in the relevant area. (Here "need" could include high calibre research as well as related teaching expertise.)

[MedSchoolRat]

Seems to me like I've read about this policy for 25 yrs, Concordant and all that. I'm not sure how it works, either. Let us know how you get on, OP.

[GCAcademic]

This happened to someone in my department, but it was instigated not by her but an individual who took up the HoD role and had been a union rep and was very much into workers' rights.

[qudylogra]

I think that's where the context really matters @GCAcademic.

If somebody has been employed on internal funding for a number of years it's hard to justify why they can't be on a permanent contract.

On the other hand, in a STEM department with many postdocs on 4+ year funding and few permanent lecturer jobs coming up, the situation could be very different. The postdocs will know that they aren't likely to move onto a lecturer job and that they will need to apply for positions widely within and outside academia. (Academic research funding works on the basis of funding many more postdocs on fixed term contracts than can obtain permanent positions. Whether it should work that way is another issue.)

[GCAcademic]

Sorry, yes, I should have been clearer. This was someone who’d been doing hourly-paid teaching for a number of years.

[bigkidsdidit]

I know this is the law but I have literally never seen it happen. I’ve worked in multiple universities. Never once seen it. I am very curious!

[DrGilbertson]

I'm on open ended not fixed term - but it doesn't make any difference I just get a letter saying "open ended but funding until X" - every time I get a bit more funding or change my hours etc. they resend the letter.

I don't think the open ended thing makes it any more secure really.

[Nion]

Thanks for your responses. I'm curious as to why it's not used more, but I think qudylogra has laid out the terms nicely. I had assumed that it's because they tightly control fixed term contract lengths, but with mine over the last few years they have been quick to extend where needed with varying roles and funds. My STEM department isn't bursting with post docs so hard to get an idea.
I've a few years to go yet so got time to scope the landscape and see how things stand.
Good to know about the open ended contracts DrGilbertson, sounds harsh being reminded exactly when the funds extend to.
When they said academia was hard I thought they meant the research. Feels a bit silly all the dancing around needed to find out if you're employable.

[leafinthewind]

In my uni, if you stay long enough you get an open ended contract (useful for getting a mortgage etc) but you're still likely to be made redundant when the funding runs out. It results in an undignified rush for the exit in year 4 of five year funding, which allows weaker people like me (finished PhD then took a career break) to get a foot in the door. It's insane though. You'd never design a research system to look like this.