Leaving academia and mixed feelings (grief?)

[LeavingInk]

Hi,

I was offered a permanent job in the private sector and have decided to leave academia. I've been in academia in short term research posts for the past 2-3 years after completing a PhD. I've got another 4 weeks to go yet but I am starting to doubt my decision and feeling a bit of grief I think and anxiousness. Is this to be expected? Fundamentally I decided to move out of academia as I need job security. I have a rocky relationship and also need to get on the property ladder to give myself and DCs some security. Please tell me I may be doing the right thing (or not?)? My other option was to stay in academia and apply for the next 9-18 month contract, and keep doing that until I have a lucky break (on own grant or lectureship).

[Booboostwo]

I think you’re doing the right thing.

I left academia after 15 years and I had similar feelings to you. Guilt and sadness, I even had nightmares about abandoning my students. I found academia to be very stressful though and overall I think it was a good decision for me.

[luckycat007]

Go for it and don't look back.

[AutoFilled]

You are doing the right thing. I left 10 years ago, after nearly 5 years of postdoc. I wanted job security, and a stable location, house for family life. It has definitely been the right decision for me.

[NameChangedAgain18]

I don't know anyone who has left academia and regretted it, including those in permanent jobs. There are lots of people in permanent jobs looking for a way out.

[LeavingInk]

Thank you everyone for your words of support!

I've actually found it quite difficult to even get offered a post outside of academia so I know I am lucky to get a permenant one and with a promotion too pay wise. So I really should be happy. It's just that the current university I am at has made me realise that maybe I should have tried for a lectureship, as it's so convenient with DCs, as in the summer, no one is in! The entire floor of lecturers is deserted. But securing a permenant lectureship is difficult and I'm not sure I would have got one in the end anyways (it seems to go to 'insiders' and those who cosy up to the dean of school). There's also a lot of bitchiness even among professors, which tbh I'm happy to get out of but I guess you probably get that everywhere to some extent.

I just need to keep reminding myself that my priority is to get on the property ladder and get security, and there's no way that was going to happen if I remained in academia.

[LeavingInk]

May I ask what type of things you all moved on to? (If you want to share :) )

[luckycat007]

I would too be grateful for alternate options.

[user2222018]

I should have tried for a lectureship, as it's so convenient with DCs, as in the summer, no one is in! The entire floor of lecturers is deserted.

Maybe they're not in, but that doesn't mean they aren't working. Perhaps it's different in your subject area, but like many academics I never take much annual leave and find summer an extremely pressured time, finishing paper, grant proposals and putting together teaching for the following year.

I really wouldn't academia as a career to anyone.

[AutoFilled]

Not sure what field you are in. But colleagues who work in academia travel more and works longer hours than me. They seem to stay up after kids gone to bed till 1-2am doing work all the time. There are a lot of travelling for EU project meetings. In comparison, industry is very office hours and lots of scope of flexible and remote working. For example, I set my meeting hours so I can attend nativities, sports day etc. I don’t feel I ever have that flexibility with academia with meetings (too many parties involved). And I didn’t teach. I can’t imagine you can just reschedule a lecture to suit your days?

[Teenageromance]

I’m another who is leaving academic research for a permanent post within a university. It’s the best feeling to have a permanent post, a bit of sadness at leaving my area of research but a lot of day to day research is quite tedious (grant applications and paper rewrites anyone) and the lure of a permanent interesting job is too great.

[geekaMaxima]

Gosh, I hardly recognise those descriptions of academia as being the same job I have. Yes, definitely, some academics are workaholics and some universities or departments have a toxic culture that forces people to behave that way.

But then again, I find academia to be incredibly flexible. I work from home about half the time, more outside term, and go into the office only on days I have teaching or committee meetings. I block all my other meetings back to back on the days when I am in the office, or Skype when that's not possible. I work normal office hours, never over 40 hrs/week, often starting earlier or finishing later so I can drop off or pick up DC. Of course, it's not all sunshine and roses: I do get stressed, I have to be laser-focused while I'm at work so no chit-chat over coffee with colleagues, I struggle to take all my annual leave (lol at the idea of having summers off!), and I do sometimes have to do an hour in the evenings once the DC are in bed. And I'm not coasting or doing a half-assed job - I was recently promoted in a research-intensive institution.

I know my version of academia is not typical, but neither is the 70-hour-a-week version. Industry is similarly varied.

OP, I know several people who left academia for industry. Most were happy, some were not but stuck it out for the money, some were not and came back to academia (easier in some fields than others). If you need job security and the job seems interesting, go for it! You can always look for another job if it doesn't work out

[luckycat007]

If I'd known quite how much the nature of universities would change in the sector I'd have run a mile. Things seemed different in Scotland in 2008 when I got my 3+1.

I'm glad there are still people who are happy though, of course. But I wish I'd stopped at a Masters and went into something else. Saying that the 3+ 1 demands both.

[Orchiddingme]

geeka my experience is similar to yours, actually quite flexible and reasonable working hours. I have never worked 70 hour weeks in academia and I don't travel extensively either due to caring responsibilities. I do fine. I also don't work f/t all summer, and I don't know anyone that does- most go on holidays and write/grant write a bit if they need to, then step it up in early Sept. Everyone I know has an 'out of office' reply on and most are in sunnier places or visiting relatives, with some work mixed in.

[user2222018]

I work normal office hours, never over 40 hrs/week.... and I do sometimes have to do an hour in the evenings once the DC are in bed.

This puts you into the minority of academics, according to national and international surveys.

I would agree that academics often count hours such as chatting over coffee in their working hours - but I think that this is true in other fields too.

I also think there can be huge culture differences between subjects, institutions and career levels.

[luckycat007]

@user2222018 I tend to agree with all your posts - totally.

[AutoFilled]

It definitely depends on subject. If it helps, I was in computer science, where most of the staff are research grant funded. Most of the professors and senior staff didn’t teach. There were very high pressure to get grants. It was the research that forced the meetings and travels. It was regularly 3-4 days a month in some European countries for meetings or pilots/demos. And we joked some professors spent more time on air then on land.

[geekaMaxima]

This puts you into the minority of academics, according to national and international surveys.

That's exactly what I said. I know my version of academia is not typical.

It's also not impossible, though, and I wish I had known that as an early career academic. The more people broadcast that they do actually combine academia and family life, the more normalised it will become, and the less early career academics will assume that they have to work 70-hour weeks in order to succeed.

That's why I speak up on threads like this that describe academia as uniformly long hours: There is another way.

[geekaMaxima]

It definitely depends on subject. If it helps, I was in computer science, where most of the staff are research grant funded.

It depends more on how an individual works around university / department culture, tbf. I'm in STEM and have worked in a range of institutions with interdisciplinary collaborators and colleagues in other depts. I've known computer science professors that Skype most of their European grant coordinator meetings, wouldn't travel away from family for more than one night until their kids were at least 7-8 years old, etc. It didn't damage their grant-getting abilities or productivity, though I'd imagine they saw a lot of 6am flights.

[user2222018]

the less early career academics will assume that they have to work 70-hour weeks in order to succeed

I do not know a single academic in my field who didn't work long hours, to get a permanent position. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

A majority of female academics in my field don't have children. Those who do have children typically have only one, and had the child in their late 30s, after progressing to at least (tenured/permanent) associate professor. Again, it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

I genuinely don't think it is possible to work only contracted hours (35 per week), take chunks of annual leave, and get a permanent job/progress to professor in my area. This is because the norm is set by people who simply don't work this way, everywhere in the world.

All these things said, it is definitely a choice to stay in this research area rather than side stepping to neighbouring research areas where the culture is better. It would be more realistic to work shorter hours in neighbouring areas of research.

I also agree about using time effectively: working intensively while in the office, clustering meetings together, fixing specific hours for meeting undergraduate and PhD students. I see that many of my colleagues waste quite a lot of time by not doing such things. This is particularly the case for men with wives who run the household i.e. they feel free to be in the office for long hours with somebody else taking care of domestic arrangements.

[Teenageromance]

Whether or not you have a long hours culture, the instability of funding for research posts is a reality for many and after a while it becomes too hard to bear. Permanent post wins for me. It’s such a shame that universities train up all this research expertise that is then lost.

[LeavingInk]

Thanks everyone for your insights and contributions

My experience so far has suggested that those on lectureships in ex-polytechnics tend to have it much easier, as although 20% of time is allocated to research, research is not expected. This means that summers for example can be spent reading or having time off.

[thejeangenie36]

I made exactly the same choice OP at the same stage in my academic career as you. I haven't regretted it - the security it has generated has enabled children and a mortgage. I can come home from work and switch off from it. I still do academic research, but as a hobby not a career.

Of my PHD cohort of around 15, all of whom finished 10 years ago in Humanities at a RG University , only 2 have permanent academic jobs. One was brilliant, the other well connected. Both had to go through a whole load of stress to get those jobs, being exploited in successive, numerous temporary contracts in different parts of the country and trying to publish as well to be competitive. A fee friends are still in that game and miserable for it.

I and a few peers have gone into University admin / student support. Other close friends from those days have become accountants and teachers.

[nakedscientist]

My experience so far has suggested that those on lectureships in ex-polytechnics tend to have it much easier, as although 20% of time is allocated to research, research is not expected. This means that summers for example can be spent reading or having time off

I am head of department in such an institution ( new university- ex poly) and I can assure you we do not have it easy or have the summers off. There are revision sessions, resits, resit marking, MSc students' dissertation supervision, PhD supervision, clearing, interviews, open days, graduation ceremonies, conferences, student programming, distance based learning provision, building modules, lectures, for next term. We might not be in the office, but the work load is very high.
Personally I have an active research group, but if you don't it is a requirement to have other scholarly work or professional development.
Having said this I love my job and have five kids. I moved from short term post docs in a top three university to gain the sort of security the OP has mentioned and it has been 100% worth it.

[Orchiddingme]

I'm sure as a HoD you have a busy summer, that said, our HoD has had a good two weeks abroad without working too much he told me! My colleagues are all on holiday. There is work to be done, but I don't think many people are pulling 12 hour days at this time of year, not in my dep't or institution, they may be writing a bit at home or marking a few resits, but it's definitely down time compared with term-time, unless they have a specific new course to design or grant date which is not most years.

[Orchiddingme]

I do agree though that if you prefer a stable permanent job and don't want to do the crazy busy times when they come (whether in summer or not) then uni administration is a better choice.