Salary Negotiations

[Ooooopsdilemma]

Hi all, can anyone give me some thoughts on how salary negotiations work? I think I might be promoted this year. Apparently when my case was discussed some suggested I go straight for readership (currently lecturer). For some reason, I didn't and have applied for senior lectureship. Should I get this, can anyone tell me what happens with salary negotiations? I want to negotiate towards the top of the spine for Senior Lecturer - but is that generally possible/likely with a promotion? Thanks in advance!

[geekaMaxima]

My university has no salary negotiations for normal promotions - you go in at bottom of the grade (or one spine point up in the case of overlapping grades). The exception is if you have a job offer elsewhere and use it for leverage.

If your institution allows you to negotiate, do you have any leverage? Any specific reason(s) why they'd appoint you at the top of the SL scale?

[dinobum]

My uni is the same, no negotiations, or at least it's not advertised or discussed in the circles I run in, but maybe if you're male...?

[user7214743615]

No salary negotiations for regular promotions - you go to the bottom point of the scale. To get salary jumps you need to get an offer from elsewhere usually.

[TheMasterNotMargarita]

What dinobum said.
But if you dont ask you don't get. Is there any opportunity to bring it up at your appraisal?

[user7214743615]

It is not a male v female issue at any institution I have been at - it is a way of saving money. Gender issues do come into it though - because for men it is often much easier to move jobs and hence increase their salaries.

[impostersyndrome]

No negotiations for internal promotion where I am either, I'm afraid.

[CustardShoes]

Very unlikely that you could negotiate on an internal promotion. You need to change institutions to do that.

[chemenger]

No negotiations on internal promotion where I am either. Some negotiation is possible for new appointments but not much. We can apply for discretionary points on the scale but I haven't heard of anyone getting more than one. They prefer discretionary payments because they aren't recurring. Reader and SL are the same payscale here.

[MiladyThesaurus]

No negotiations for promotion here either.

TBH, the only way to be promoted is to apply for externally advertised posts. The threshold for internal promotion is considerably higher than external recruitment. It's hideously unfair.

[Ooooopsdilemma]

Thanks everybody. Well ... I think I got the promotion. Bit surprised by this but pleased. Obviously, I will not be getting a salary increase! Apparently I've got a good chance of getting to Reader next year (could probably have done it this year if I'd applied, stupid me). But I've realised that I will probably have to move should I want a meaningful pay-rise. Here's hoping that journal papers remain portable!

[Ooooopsdilemma]

PS: would you mention this to your head of school (eg that you will be looking to move for money)? I don't know if it's remotely helpful to do that in this context, or just a bit pointlessly antagonistic. In any case, he will probably say, fine, off you go - and I'll look like a dick when I can't find a new job and stay for the next 100 years!

[user7214743615]

In most universities the head of school does not have any power to raise your salary - the decisions will be taken above that level, at faculty or even central university level.

Threatening to leave without any job to go to won't have any effect.

[user7214743615]

BTW even at very senior levels e.g. Dean you often have to have a job offer from elsewhere to get a significant salary rise.

[user7214743615]

And the Stern review removes portability of REF outputs. This is expected to be accepted, so it will stop the moving around of REF stars pre REF and effectively push down salaries. (My understanding is that the only Stern recommendation that will be adjusted is the minimum number of outputs - RG want it to be set at one, to prevent Oxbridge putting in lots of teaching fellows with zero outputs, to increase the number of outputs their top researchers can submit.)

[CustardShoes]

As an HoD, if a colleague told me they were looking for a job that paid more, I'm afraid I'd wish them well, and give them advice on their CV.

OTOH, I do try to help my colleagues get paid more by annual reviews with a view to their trajectory towards promotion, or by seeing if there's something they've done that's extra special which might merit an extra increment.

But we set the bar pretty high at my place.

Like others, I just find it irritating if colleagues talk to me about salary only. It's not as if there's any lack of information about salary levels at ranks below Professor. If you want to make a lot of money, don't be an academic.

[chemenger]

I'm not a HoD but I have been here a long time and I have seen thrusting young academics try to use a job offer to leverage their salary. The response is as CustardShoes says - hearty congratulations and request to leave their office in good order when they go. It is fairly well known here that it is futile to threaten to leave, because we can easily fill vacancies if people do go. Certainly for us, staff recruitment is a buyers' rather than a sellers' market. I constantly threaten to resign and nobody has ever offered me anything , even though I am personally irreplaceable.

[CustardShoes]

Chemenger I often wonder whether we work at the same place ...

[chemenger]

If we do then you would who I am! Not that I have anything to hide. There are several people you could be...Our institutions do sound similar.

[chemenger]

You would KNOW who I am! 6 hours of student in a day is too many.

[CustardShoes]

I'm in Humanities, and only know one person in Engineering at my place (spouse of colleague).

[user7214743615]

If you want to make a lot of money, don't be an academic.

This is true of course but many UK institutions in my area are deliberately declining promotions on tenuous grounds to keep the salaries down. I don't think it's OK to squash academic pay while inflating pay for senior leadership and pouring money into facilities to attract students.

[user7214743615]

For example, somebody in my group just got an offer from elsewhere with a salary rise of 15k+. This person was continually discouraged from promotion at my institution even though they were clearly well above the bar.

[user7214743615]

I constantly threaten to resign and nobody has ever offered me anything.

If everybody's salary is at the right points on the same scale, then there isn't an issue.

But in reality at all universities I have ever been at (includes Oxbridge, Ivy League etc) this is just not the case. People do manage to up their salaries by moving from elsewhere or getting an offer from elsewhere. There is often awareness that X is on a professor scale but Y is not, even though Y is clearly outperforming X, and this clearly creates resentment against X.

Yes, your university may refuse to give you a pay rise to retain you, if you are in a department where staff can be hired rather easily. But I would be very surprised if they aren't giving extra pay to superstars that they don't want to lose. I haven't yet found a university that doesn't do this. (And TBH I have personally exploited it.)

[chemenger]

I was joking about never being offered anything , I thought fairly obviously! I have never asked for a pay rise, so it has never been refused. Promotions here are encouraged, I have been promoted and had both discretionary points and discretionary payments and I know many other people who have too. The promotions system is very supportive and designed to help people present well to the panel. I use threatening to resign as an often humorous statement of frustration with the occasional lunacy of academic life. I actually think things are reasonably OK here, especially since a recent relaxation of the obsession with research as the only grounds for promotion.Clearly this situation does not reflect life throughout academia, which is an eye opener.

[theresamustgo]

Are most of you aware of your colleagues' salaries? Just wondering, as a few days ago by accident I was sent a document with the salaries of those in my department. I am right at bottom of scale for my level. Feeling pretty sick about it, but don't really know what to do.