Downton Abbey musings

(23 Posts)
gabsdot45 Thu 14-Oct-21 13:49:54

I've been sick this week and have used to time to binge re-watch Downton Abbey. It's soooo good, I love it,
Anyway. It occured to me. With all the fuss about Matthew becoming the Heir etc. In an alternative universe, When Lord Grantham has a grandson , (whichever daughter is his mother) wouldn't that child become the heir and out rank Matthew.

I know in the end Matthew and Mary produced the first grandson but if Sybil and Tom's daughter had been a boy would that child have become the Heir????
Thoughts anyone

OP’s posts: |
FelicityBeedle Thu 14-Oct-21 14:57:42

Nope, it all went to the first male heir of the next generation. So Matthew would have got it regardless of any grandchildren

thevassal Thu 14-Oct-21 17:56:06

As above. The entail can't skip a generation so M/E/S would have to inherit before being able to pass on to their son which they can't do.

Of course it's all bollocks because people had been breaking entails for 100s of years before when it's set, and that type of entail was actually abolished in 1925. So Lord Grantham could have broken it at any point and willed everything to any of his daughters/wife/the golden retriever but he wanted the land and house etc to stay with the title, which could then (and still now!) only be inherited by a male.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit Thu 14-Oct-21 18:00:13

I always found the Marigold story a bit sick really, passed around like a doll, and the way Edith used that poor family.

Edith was also so unfairly luckless all the time, I was glad she outranked Mary by the end.

NoraLuka Thu 14-Oct-21 18:08:16

Yes I felt sorry for the Mum of the family looking after Marigold. She didn’t know who Marigold really was I don’t think.

I never understood why Lord Grantham didn’t want to separate the land from the title, just don’t get what difference it makes? Did they get income due to having the title?

EineReiseDurchDieZeit Thu 14-Oct-21 18:11:59

@NoraLuka

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the income from the estates is what the Earl lives on and therefore tied to the title.

A lot of titles died during both World Wars due to sole male heirs not coming back

TatianaBis Thu 14-Oct-21 18:49:06

Quite apart from the above, Tom would not have been allowed above stairs even once they were married, and Sybil would have been socially excommunicated.

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Rainbowsew Thu 14-Oct-21 19:21:03

If Matthew hadn't married Mary it would have been his son who'd inherit, thus ousting all of them out including both Lady Grantham's. Essentially the whole family would have been turned out for a complete stranger which is why they were fussing so much and encouraging Mary to marry him.

Rainbowsew Thu 14-Oct-21 19:25:12

Their income would come from the estate if there was no other fortune in the bank.
They did put fortunes into investments which if they failed would be lost, its one of the reasons many Lords married American heiresses despite the snobbery associated with it.

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur Thu 14-Oct-21 19:28:46

The bit I didn't understand (although it's it's a while since I watched it) is how Matthew inherited even though Lord Grantham outlived him?

Driposaurus Thu 14-Oct-21 19:29:35

I’ve watched it through recently. It’s absolutely rubbish, but BRILLIANT rubbish.

Bates is a bit creepy isn’t he.

Carson’s eyebrows deserve their own plot line. But when he and Mrs Hughes gets married it is a bit lovely.

Barrow does a massive about turn from unloved bully, dodgy character, to butler. It makes no sense.

The Treatment Of Marigold, yup that family were treated very badly.

NapoleonOzmolysis Thu 14-Oct-21 19:43:03

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur

The bit I didn't understand (although it's it's a while since I watched it) is how Matthew inherited even though Lord Grantham outlived him?

Matthew didn't inherit - he became the Heir, and on his death his and Mary's son became The Heir so will inherit when the Earl dies.

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur Thu 14-Oct-21 19:45:24

Oh I see. I think. So the previous heir (Patrick?) Died childless so it passed to Matthew?
But if he'd had a son already it would have passed to him?

Robin233 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:45:42

@Driposaurus

I’ve watched it through recently. It’s absolutely rubbish, but BRILLIANT rubbish.

Bates is a bit creepy isn’t he.

Carson’s eyebrows deserve their own plot line. But when he and Mrs Hughes gets married it is a bit lovely.

Barrow does a massive about turn from unloved bully, dodgy character, to butler. It makes no sense.

The Treatment Of Marigold, yup that family were treated very badly.

Agree on so many points.
And I have just watched the entire lot for a second time.
I thought bates was a bit creepy but not sure why ....
That poor woman loved Marigold so as a mum myself I did find it uncomfortable to watch and I knew the truth.
I was happy Thomas grew - but I liked the actor and didn't want him to be bad.
And Carson's eye brows.
And when I saw the film I can remember thinking this is so 'rubbish' - think mr Mosley ( they all seemed ti be playing it for laughs) and yet I LOVED every minute of it.
Can't wait for next film.

Rockbird Thu 14-Oct-21 19:46:03

Matthew didn't inherit. He was just the heir.

Bates was a giant creep, he should have been locked up with the key thrown away Just Because.

Looneytune253 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:47:49

Matthew didn't inherit but if you remember he ploughed all the money he inherited from Lavinias father to save the estate so he was jointly in charge. Mary then inherited his half but Matthew was never lord grantham as he was still alive

NoraLuka Thu 14-Oct-21 19:53:51

I wonder if there ever was a real life story like Tom and Sybil? Or like Rose and the African American musician?

Bates is totally bleurgh, don’t know what Anna saw in him!

@EineReiseDurchDieZeit I just went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole about how the aristocracy earn their money 😁

EineReiseDurchDieZeit Thu 14-Oct-21 20:02:00

I found the Rose and the musician thing a bit cringy and twee.

There is no way that young ladies of that class and era weren't massively racist. Lady Mary was lovely to him, real life, sadly would have been much different.

TatianaBis Thu 14-Oct-21 20:56:40

I wonder if there ever was a real life story like Tom and Sybil?

Nope.

Aristocratic men could marry who they liked (servants, actresses, prostitutes) if they were prepared to take the social disapproval.

But I’ve never heard of a single instance of an aristocratic woman marrying a servant. Dallying like - Queen Victoria with John Brown - sure, marrying - no. Because - patriarchy.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit Thu 14-Oct-21 21:01:11

I mean right up to our own Queen, most aristocratic marriages were on arranged side.

Classica Thu 14-Oct-21 21:05:04

Hated Tom Branson.

Worst Republican ever.

He sold out for a feather bed and all delicious delights Mrs Patmore (and that awful screech Daisy) could slap on the table.

OliviaBean Fri 15-Oct-21 13:50:31

Just rewatching the whole lot again.

Bates is a creep, just can't stand him. The whole misery surrounding him and Anna was just too much, really brought the series down IMO.

I love the friendship between Violet and Isobel, very funny and touching.

I got fed up of the whole plot surrounding Barrow, he was evil, good, evil, good, it just didn't flow to me.

The whole Marigold thing was horrid, really thought that poor family and mother were horribly used.

All in all it's an entertaining series, enjoyed it more than not.

thevassal Mon 18-Oct-21 23:11:02

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur

Oh I see. I think. So the previous heir (Patrick?) Died childless so it passed to Matthew?
But if he'd had a son already it would have passed to him?

technically the next heir was Patrick's father (James? not sure of his name), then Patrick, but I think as he was a similar age to LG, they assumed that he'd likely die before LG, so Patrick would be the 'next generation.' If Patrick had had a son yes he would have inherited before Matthew, the same would apply if Patrick had had a brother (although if he had a son and a brother son would have come first). It's the same as Pride and Prejudice and Mr Bennet's estate being entailed to Mr Collins (although Matthew is more distantly related than Mr Collins).

The worse thing about the whole Marigold saga is that Edith had already done the same thing with the Swiss couple who initially looked after and were going to adopt her! Poor thing got taken away from her 'family' twice within about 3 years!

I always watch it as if Bates is guilty of everything, adds an extra dimension of interest grin

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