What are your thoughts and opinions on Universal basic income?(UNI)

[shesellsseashells99]

I dont know much about this, but was talking about it with a friend this morning and how on favour they were of it.

I'm just interested to hear your thoughts. For and against and how it would actually work.

Which countries have tried this already?

[shesellsseashells99]

UBI I meant

[squeekyclean]

I believe this was something suggested at the start of lockdown as a relatively easy way to deal with the fact that millions of people were going to suddenly lose their income. The Government brought the Furlough scheme and grants for self employed etc in instead. Universal Basic Income would have been for everyone (so people like those who moved jobs just at the wrong time) would not have missed out. It would (I assume) have cost more though.

[shesellsseashells99]

I wonder how much more it would actually cost..

[KitKatastrophe]

I dont really know what it means, can someone explain?

[EasternDailyStress]

Basically everyone is given the same amount of money to live on, say £25K. Then you can choose whether or not you want to work, or to do voluntary work, or to pursue artistic endeavours etc etc.

It has been trialled in an American state of all places, where it seemed to work really well.

There's a good book about it, which DH has read, but I can't remember what it's called

[EasternDailyStress]

Utopia for Realists is the name of the book. I think it's a great idea.

[Echobelly]

@KitKatastrophe - I'm not expect but the basic idea is that the government gives everyone a set sum of money, regardless of circumstances. In at least some models this includes people in work, but maybe not all?

The idea is you prevent anyone being destitute, you may allow more people to follow creative pathways they couldn't afford otherwise. I think it's a good idea in theory, especially as it removes the stress and anxiety of the possibility of having no money, which I think creates a lot of negative consequences, and the vast majority of people will still want to work (we're not talking about a massive load of cash here)

What people see as the downsides: they object to some people living off it (this could happen, but as I said, I think it would be a very small minority), the expense, obviously (but some people feel it would save a huge amount in terms of stemming social problems) and that, if paid to absolutely everyone, it might just widen social inequality as the wealthier people would all just invest it for their kids.

[KitKatastrophe]

Ah I see. So you could still work and have that on top of your basic income?

I guess it would work out a lot more expensive for the government but they wouldnt have to do means testing etc for benefits or keep on top of which is getting how much, so it would save money in that way.

[shesellsseashells99]

But then it would be actually worth people working in the lowest pay jobs, they would be better off for working.

[shesellsseashells99]

It would be good to give everyone a level playing field. No more rich and poor divide

[Echobelly]

Importantly, if people could live stabily on UBI, employers would have to treat people better and pay better because if you didn't like it you could afford to jack in your shitty job. Another reason it won't get implemented here as the government has plenty of mates who are quite happy being able to treat their employees like crap, thank you very much.

[TheQueef]

Fantastic idea.
We should be embarrassed that other countries like India are doing it before us.

[rosiethehen]

The tories would never go for this. They seem to enjoy seeing people suffer.

[Lottapianos]

I think it sounds great. Its simply appalling that people can become utterly destitute through a run of bad luck. We cant continue to tolerate that as a society. Echobelly, love your point that it will help people to stand up to shitty employers

[AlohaMolly]

I think it would be a good idea. I think it would work on so many levels, like new parents could choose to stay at home with their children until school started, if they chose. It could mean that more parents were able to work around school hours, which could have w positive societal impact maybe?

For households like I mean, I earn less than £1000 a month. If I had my
Wages topped up to say £1000, so my boss paid my wages then the government topped it up, inevitably that money would go back into the economy through Christmas presents/birthday presents/eating out etc. That would positively impact the economy. For some it could mean the difference between accessing healthier food or not, which has health implications further down the line. For some it would mean they wouldn’t have to take on debt to fix a boiler/car etc.

I can’t see how there are negatives tbh.

[TheQueef]

@rosiethehen

The tories would never go for this. They seem to enjoy seeing people suffer.

Their capitalism only works if there are poor people.
They make their money on the work done by the poor.
No way will we see it here.
The conservatives have ensured the public will be unhappy for scroungers to get free money the Tory propaganda is embedded.

[BiBabbles]

I think it has potential, though I think Universal Basic Services - at least the schemes of it written up by UCL and similar - also has a lot of merit and would be better built up alongside rather than UBI on it's own.

[Gilead]

Brilliant idea and has worked well in areas in which it’s been trialled.

[roarfeckingroarr]

This is discussed quite regularly on here.

Personally I disagree. I don't really agree with supporting people to do nothing. Our tax system feels punitive enough to me. However I can see that it would be better in so far as it would cost much less and be easier to administer.

[miyhh]

Sorry if I'm.beung stupid but won't tge rich.poor divide still be the same. The rich could save / invest into other things and become even richer?!

I didn't know India were doing this!

[slipperywhensparticus]

The suggestion was everyone got 100 a week not 25,000 a year

[SheWranglesRugRats]

It’s a great idea. There’s a large-scale trial going on in Kenya that is making such a difference to people’s lives.

[TwilightSkies]

I don't really agree with supporting people to do nothing.

Why do you assume people would do nothing?
The money would only be enough to cover basics: roof over your head, food, basic utilities.
If you wanted extra you would work to top up your money.

[Waxonwaxoff0]

Fantastic idea. I would still work if I got it as well.

[Asdf12345]

I was quite keen on the idea until the Scandinavian trial that seemed to show it was no good for getting the unemployed into work.