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Why are some Labour voters in denial about JCs endorsement of party wide anti-Semitism

(264 Posts)
Rainbowhairdontcare Wed 30-Oct-19 12:00:44

I'm in a tactical vote group on FB. There was a fairly civilised discussion about JC when I said as a Jew I can't vote for him, nor any of the members of the small community where we live.

Then I got told off for buying the "fear mongering biased media".

I've read and heard what he's said. As a Jew I can clearly see it as anti-Semitism. It baffles me that people are still in denial about it.

FabbyChix Wed 30-Oct-19 12:25:34

You can’t believe all you read and hear in the news. Personally I love the guy

FlashesOfRage Wed 30-Oct-19 12:31:30

No self respecting person of Jewish heritage could possibly support the Labour Party under the current leadership.

It’s not fake news. It’s not once or twice. It’s not even very well concealed.

Rainbowhairdontcare Wed 30-Oct-19 12:38:11

Exactly! @FlashesOfRage this person even said she had "Jewish family member who fully support him". I find that very hard to believe.

The position of the of the BOD (Board of deputies of British Jews) is that JC and Labour under his leadership are anti-Semitic. And as you say he doesn't even try to hide it.

vinoandbrie Wed 30-Oct-19 12:39:37

It’s awful, it’s abhorrent, and I’ve no idea why people are in denial about it.

JosephineDeBeauharnais Wed 30-Oct-19 12:43:15

I'm not Jewish, but I have resigned my membership of the Labour Party over this issue. I will not be associated with it. It's not fake news.

NailsNeedDoing Wed 30-Oct-19 12:59:56

Because not everyone sees being pro Palestine as anti Semitic.

Rainbowhairdontcare Wed 30-Oct-19 13:13:12

You can be pro Palestine and not be anti-Semitic. I'm all for a two state solution.

missyB1 Wed 30-Oct-19 13:16:53

Because it’s your opinion, not a fact. Opinions are like arseholes everyone has one! You truly believe JC is anti Semitic, fine you are absolutely entitled to, it doesn’t mean anyone who holds a different opinion is wrong though.

BoogleMcGroogle Wed 30-Oct-19 13:19:23

Lord only knows. My feeling is that the cult of personality (oh, the irony) around JC among some means that they are wholly unable to view him as anything other than saintlike. Yesterday another mum, who I considered a friend totally laid into me for not supporting Labour. When I mentioned my discomfort with the antisemitism issue I was duely informed I was gullible because all of that is made up by people in the pay of Israel and how can I ever think it's okay to murder Palestinian babies. If it's okay to say this sort of thing out if the blue in a play date, heavens knows what they must say between themselves on their Internet forums. She's off my Christmas card list!

NailsNeedDoing Wed 30-Oct-19 13:24:29

You can be pro Palestine and not be anti-Semitic.

Absolutely. I agree, and I think that's what JC is. People don't have to have their opinions formed by what BOD or anyone else tells them to think.

MrsMaiselsMuff Wed 30-Oct-19 13:31:53

He's not antisemitic. He does have strong views about the Israeli government.

The Board of Deputies and the Jewish Chronicle are one big Tory PR tool.

Antisemitism is entirely unacceptable. There are small elements of it in the Labour Party and in every other party. They need addressing. Statistically it is far more prevalent in the right than the left. That doesn't mean Labour should ignore though, which is why they encourage reports of any offending members.

MrsMaiselsMuff Wed 30-Oct-19 13:33:25

If you see any members making antisemitic comments then by all means message me their details. I will report them myself.

OnlyFoolsnMothers Wed 30-Oct-19 13:37:02

Astounds me too OP- they should watch the Panorama show exposing the antisemitism.
Unfortunately the response when raising legitimate concerns to JC supporters is "well what about the anti-Islamic rhetoric within the Tories"....Whataboutism at its finest.

Rainbowhairdontcare Wed 30-Oct-19 15:18:58

Thank you @MrsMaiselsMuff we have an online watch for anti-Semitism. So I'll definitely message you if I see anything out of order.

MorrisZapp Wed 30-Oct-19 15:21:22

Could you give an example of an anti semitic thing he's said?

Echobelly Wed 30-Oct-19 15:36:58

I'm also Jewish, but I don't believe Corbyn endorses antisemitism, though he has clearly not done enough to stop it or distance himself from antisemites. Its not good but until we put the same focus on the AS in every area of politics then I'm cautious of the focus on Labour and it does feel like it has been weaponized. Not by Jews, but by right wing media who got scared when Corbyn got widespread support and saw this Achilles heel they could use to undermine him, and then JC and Board of Deputies ran with it. I mostly feel pissed off the RW types are using faux concern for Jews in order to remove the threat that they might have to pay a bit more tax under a leftist government.

Frankly it would be the decent thing for him to stand down to remove the perception of AS in Labour (even if it doesn't actually solve the problems that are there).

I'm basically going to have to vote Lib Dem as most likely vote to unseat local Tory as the large Jewish Labour vote in our area will have collapsed over this, which I'm not all that happy about given lib dems poor integrity, but needs must.

OnlyFoolsnMothers Wed 30-Oct-19 15:41:32

MorrisZapp actions speak louder than words, and how Corbyn is choosing to "deal" with antisemitism speaks volumes, including:

reinstating party members who make blatant racist remarks towards Jews, refusing to adopt the the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's (IHRA) working definition of Antisemitism (which the UK adopted without debate), his use of the word Zionist.

I really would suggest you watch the documentary if it's still on iplayer.

FlashesOfRage Wed 30-Oct-19 15:52:57

Failing to stamp out anti-semitism in the party once it has been drawn attention to is the kind of thing that leads to anti-semites becoming emboldened in the wider community. We are already on dangerous and uncomfortable ground.

BonnesVacances Wed 30-Oct-19 15:57:23

I have a friend who is an Israeli Jew living in the UK and she has no problem voting Labour or with JC. In fact she used to live in JC's constituency but has moved now. I don't know much about the issue myself but I give her opinion more weight than what I read in the papers. So I am always a bit hmm when people repeat what they've read or heard down the pub.

OnlyFoolsnMothers Wed 30-Oct-19 15:59:41

BonnesVacances well Im a Jew wouldnt vote for JC in a million years. I would suspect your friend is in the minority here.

TheGirlFromStoryville Wed 30-Oct-19 16:02:41

DH is Jewish and has always been a staunch Labour voter along with the rest of his family. Not any more though. I don't necessarily think Corbyn himself is antisemitic but he has been rather lax (to say the least) at dealing with it in the party and membership /Momentum.

Witchend Wed 30-Oct-19 16:23:01

The issue with anti-Semitism is that it isn't challenged in the same way as other racism is. It seems to be accepted, and has been for years. If it is challenged, then often the perpetrator hides behind "I'm not anti-Jews, I just am just pro-Palestine"

I'm not so sure that that can be separated that easily, it's a bit like saying "I'm not racist; lots of my friends are Muslims" (and yes I am aware that "Muslim" isn't a race).
The Palestine movement Hamas is a terrorist organisation. They want nothing less than to see Israel eradicated, and are prepared to use violence to achieve it.
Do you really want a leader who supports terrorism?

Anti-Semitism is on the rise both here and on the continent. To have a leader who at best doesn't tackle it would be a disgrace to the country.
Not tackling it is not very far removed from supporting it. It gives people free rein to say things, knowing they won't be held to account.

<and no, I'm not Jewish>

Legomadx2 Wed 30-Oct-19 16:26:38

I'm as un-Jewish as you can get and my god, Corbyn's anti-Semitism can be seen from Mars. It is abhorrent, particularly if you have any grasp of 20th century European history.

I don't understand why some Labour voters insist they can't see it. I suppose they're such diehard socialists, literally a murderer could be in charge and they'd say he (always a 'he' in Labour) was great.

LoyaltyBonus Wed 30-Oct-19 16:31:09

I can't get beyond his support for the IRA and can't understand why Labour members stick with him while it's obvious he's completely unelectable, but does anti Israel need to mean antisemitic? I can see lots of reasons why the creation of the state of Israel was not just but I have nothing against Jewish people.

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