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Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

(1000 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

KenAdams Tue 19-Feb-19 18:48:54

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

Hollowvictory Fri 22-Feb-19 08:19:58

What about the white widow?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
She's one of the world's most wanted terrorists. And she's white.

Iggly Fri 22-Feb-19 08:17:34

Can you imagine a white person shipping off to join ISIS and calls for their citizenship being revoked?

I can’t. Even though white people have.

I’m not an idiot. I know what ISIS are about and I am absolutely against what she has done.

However I don’t think revoking her citizenship in this way is appropriate without a trial. It’s lynch mob mentality.

Hollowvictory Fri 22-Feb-19 08:17:03

I thought that the UK position is that she could apply for Bangladesh citizenship not that the UK is claiming she already has it. Hilarious that sajid should have called Bangladesh ambassador to check.

Hollowvictory Fri 22-Feb-19 08:14:34

I have to laugh at those saying 'I'm legally qualified' lol it seems unlikely that you are qualified in this particular area of complex law! People who are legally qualified don't generally comment on areas outside their own field of expertis because they recognise the complexity involved.
@Imissgmichael is this really your field of expertise? I very much doubt it from your comments 😂

CameliaCamelia Fri 22-Feb-19 08:12:07

Why just 'assume' that iggly? That's a bit lazy

Why not look at what isis have done and assume that as she's connected,THATS why people are against her?

People seem to love a chance to say ''it's because they are brown'

Iggly Fri 22-Feb-19 08:08:39

Some of these posts in support for her are absolutely fucking balmy

I support the rule of law. I do not support the idea that we can just shut out people from the country without a proper trial! How can we think it’s reasonable to burden other countries with our problems.

I can only assume people think it’s because she’s not really British as she is brown. So it’s effectively racism.

SaturdayNext Fri 22-Feb-19 00:25:16

I’m not a SJ fan but all those criticising him do you not realise he will have taken government legal advice

This government has a fairly horrendous track record of losing legal challenges. In numerous cases it's been obvious to anyone with any legal knowledge that they had no case, and the general view is that their own lawyers must have told them that. It's pretty clear that they are perfectly prepared to go against unanimous legal advice, probably because they can tell the likes of the Mail that it's all the fault of those terrible lawyers that they can't get their wish to keep all brown people out and ensure that benefit claimants are on bread and water.

Imissgmichael Fri 22-Feb-19 00:01:57

Lark I’m legally qualified. Hopefully SB will be treated as the he terrorirst she is

MadCatEnthusiast Fri 22-Feb-19 00:00:23

The US are having this "you're not and never were a citizen" situation too with this Yemeni-American ISIS bride despite the fact she flew out with her own US passport.

Strange.

LarkDescending Thu 21-Feb-19 23:45:37

It isn’t crazy crap. One or two people on here have been interested in the technical legal position. If you’re not one of them, ignore it.

Imissgmichael Thu 21-Feb-19 23:35:30

Lark are you expecting anyone to understand the crazy crap you’re writing I

LarkDescending Thu 21-Feb-19 23:11:59

@NaturalBornWoman *how can they if it’s automatic until she’s 21”

No doubt it might be along the following lines:

Dear Shamima
Oh, did we say back in the day that it’s automatic until 21?
Well we’ve had another look at our confusing set of contradictory and (in the case of the 1970s decrees) hastily-drafted nationality laws in a mixture of languages, and changed our minds. New advice. New policy. So we have decided not to recognise you as a citizen by descent.
If you want to challenge that, we’ll see you in a Bangladeshi court.
Good luck!

Imperfectsusan Thu 21-Feb-19 23:02:56

The worst of it is, they'll spend a fortune sorting it out. It'll run and run. Wouldn't it be more satisfactory to have her back and spend a pile of time de- radicalising her?

Motherofcreek Thu 21-Feb-19 23:02:26

lurker no. We havnt moved on from that. The U.K. Have been quite clear they are not sending anyone in to rescue her.

Unless she miraculously gets brought to the British consulate by one of the media out let's the point is mute.

AlexaShutUp Thu 21-Feb-19 22:55:29

There's a very interesting article about SB in the Times by the journalist who conducted the initial interview with her.

NaturalBornWoman Thu 21-Feb-19 22:52:29

Someone on the internet said....... Really? an International Lawyer on the BBC news tonight said differently!

And again a Bangladeshi professor of law said on the BBC this morning that she has citizenship as long as she's under 21. He sounded reluctant, but nevertheless.....

But Bangladesh aren't going to give citizenship to her, so it really doesn't matter what you or i think.
Just as Javid can strip her of UK citizenship, so can they refuse to even grant it. how can they if it's automatic until she's 21?

LarkDescending Thu 21-Feb-19 22:48:01

Indeed it will take a while.

Attractive as it sounds, “Professor A says XYZ” is not a definitive answer to a legal question.

Neither is “The High Commissioner says ABC”.

On appeal, the tribunal will hear from all sorts of witnesses: Professor A, the expert for the Appellant; Professor B, the expert for the Respondent (who will almost certainly disagree with Professor A); possibly something from the High Commissioner as to current practice, as well as legal submissions from both sides as to how the relevant law (not all of which is in English) should be interpreted

It will weigh all of that, together with previous tribunal decisions, and come to a view. However confident any commentator sounds in the media, any opinion as to what that future decision will be is only an opinion and not a fact.

thegreatbeyond Thu 21-Feb-19 22:44:45

Does anyone else wonder if the 'husband' will actually go back to her now the whole thing has gone pear shaped?

jasjas1973 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:44:01

Someone on the internet said....... Really? an International Lawyer on the BBC news tonight said differently!

But Bangladesh aren't going to give citizenship to her, so it really doesn't matter what you or i think.
Just as Javid can strip her of UK citizenship, so can they refuse to even grant it..

The offences she has committed, just by supporting IS possibly means a 10 year jail sentence, so she wont be living next to anyone.

Personally, i would like to see all these people (esp those who have fought over there) held in detention on their return to the UK, investigated, charged and jailed for considerably longer than 10 years and only released until they have changed their views.

I just think the UK should uphold the rule of law, that is not pandering to terrorism, letting 100s back into the UK with no sanction is!!!

Imissgmichael Thu 21-Feb-19 22:37:31

Oh here’s an idea. She’s committed crimes in Syria ( yep joining terrorist organisation), do just leave it to them.

MadCatEnthusiast Thu 21-Feb-19 22:35:57

Hmm, fair point. It sounds like this will take a while @LarkDescending

LarkDescending Thu 21-Feb-19 22:32:42

The problem for anybody advising on this is that it is not just a question of strict legal construction - it depends on the application of the law in the relevant country at any given time and in any given case, and SIAC acknowledged at para 98 of “G3” that the answer in a future similar case might be different. Even within that case there were stark differences between the written statements made by the Bangladeshi High Commission and their actual application of the relevant law - let alone the analyses of the rival expert witnesses.

MadCatEnthusiast Thu 21-Feb-19 22:31:33

She had ties Mad. She was born to a Bangladeshi mum and her dad lives there

But didn't Bangladesh say 'no that's not enough'? Honestly, this is a head ache of a situation.

Imissgmichael Thu 21-Feb-19 22:26:29

“He should have done his homework and been absolutely sure she has another nationality to fall back on.
tbh there should also be due process and a media interview is not evidence that she is anymore dangerous to the UK than before she left or any of the other returnees that he still has done jack about.”

He has done his homework. Someone’s on here has said that an expert has confirmed that she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship.

There’s some very dangerous people in the UK and some on here are pandering to terrorists. They’de crap their pants if this delicate little flower moved next door to them.
.

Imissgmichael Thu 21-Feb-19 22:16:27

“This is all very confusing now. I heard on the Today program this morning a professor of law from Bangladesh admit that she would have Bangladeshi citizenship based on criteria which are apparently met”

Yep.

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