Talk

Advanced search

Threads started in this topic after 9th November 2018 will no longer be removed after 90 days. A new topic called 90 Days Only can be found in the Other Stuff category of Talk.

Does this make me an antisemite?

(98 Posts)
KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 11:54:23

Hi, I posted this on another thread and one person kindly replied to it, but I would like to get more responses. I'd like to know whether I would be considered an antisemite or not (this is so that I can reflect and change my views if I am in the wrong).

I have alot of genuine respect for Jewish people, and I am really in awe of their dedication to their faith. Of course it goes without saying I also believe the holocaust was utterly horrific, and I regularly attend the local holocaust memorial too.

With regards to the creation of Israel in 1948, I believe it was wrong to displace the people of that region living there to create a new state (you can't hold people account for what their forefathers did many 100s of years ago; because it is criminal and morally wrong? and aren't you then doing exactly the same thing that the forefathers did?). Israel should have been created but in a place that would not have resulted in millions of people losing their homes and livelihoods and much bloodshed on both sides. This should not have been allowed to happen.

As for now, I don't believe Israelis should be displaced either, as it has become their home now but Israel as a state should a) genuinely apologise to Palestinian people for displacing them from their homes b) stop building new settlements and look at another part of the world where they can create another state for Jews who are not already in Israel (If needed) c) return to the borders (1967 I think) that UN has told Israel to do d) genuinely work towards a two state solution And e) find and create homes for the Palestinians that they displaced into the refugee camps. No one has a right to take away people's homes.

Does the above make me anti-Semitic? And if so, what specific thing? I genuinely want to know so I can self reflect and correct my beliefs if I am wrong. Btw I don't believe all Jewish people are pro-Israel etc.

LuluJakey1 Fri 10-Aug-18 11:58:01

I have found myself very muddled about all of this having been reading all the stuff about the Labour party in the media. I would have said I understood it pretty clearly but now think I don't really. I can't answer your question but await with interest someone with a clearer understanding than mine.

MarthaArthur Fri 10-Aug-18 12:02:21

Of course that does not make you anti-semitic unless you think the jews should be held to higher standards than the palestinians? Or if you feel the jews should now all lose their homes? Or that you never mention the atrocities carried out across the rest of the middle east and only focus on israel?

Bibidy Fri 10-Aug-18 12:03:05

I don't see how that would make you anti-Semitic at all.

I agree with everything you said, the problem is it's a lose-lose situation now as those living in Israel have been there for a long time now, so would face the same situation the Palestinians did in the first place.

I don't see what resolution there can be at this point beyond a complete apology by Israel. However, people won't be happy with that either as it won't mean much to people who lost their homes.

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:22:39

@MarthaArthur thanks, and no to all the other questions. I'm very critical of all the other countries that commit human right abuses and atrocities.

caroldecker Fri 10-Aug-18 12:22:55

Kinder
Are you asking for a 2 state solution to the Native American issue in the USA or the aboriginals in Australia?
Or does that not matter because they killed a far higher percentage when taking over the land, or was longer ago - or more probably because it wasn't the Jews that did it?

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:25:33

@Bibidy i am totally with you on the lose lose situation and thats why only the two state solution seems viable now. I think an apology would be hugely symbolic and may ease some of those displaced's pain. Israel can also create homes for Palestinians that they displaced. If it can create new settlements for people moving into the country from abroad, it can do that for Palestinian people too? Surely that's the least they can do?

ClearlyNotAFish Fri 10-Aug-18 12:26:52

look at another part of the world where they can create another state for Jews who are not already in Israel (If needed

Where would that be?

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:27:02

@caroldecker I am actually smile. Israel can set a good example and take the lead.

thefirstmrsdewinter Fri 10-Aug-18 12:27:27

David Schneider's test is quite good: twitter.com/davidschneider/status/977479057465110528

Hefzi Fri 10-Aug-18 12:28:26

It's not anti-Semitic, but it shows you have only a very, very basic grasp of the history of Israel and the Palestinians (as the majority of people do).

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:29:04

@ClearlyNotAFish there are plenty of empty spaces in the world. Israel has the resources to create a brand new state. Just as you and I wouldn't offer up our state England to create a Jewish state , why are Palestinians expected go give up their state to create a Jewish state?

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:30:09

@thefirstmrsdewinter great thanks for sharing. I score completely fine on that smile

SillySallySingsSongs Fri 10-Aug-18 12:30:51

Are you asking for a 2 state solution to the Native American issue in the USA or the aboriginals in Australia?
Or does that not matter because they killed a far higher percentage when taking over the land, or was longer ago - or more probably because it wasn't the Jews that did it?

Good point.

I agree David Schneiders list is a good one.

thefirstmrsdewinter Fri 10-Aug-18 12:30:53

Yeah, saying stuff like 'Israel can set a good example' is not a good start. Are you interested in whether or not you're antisemitic or are you here to be goady?

SillySallySingsSongs Fri 10-Aug-18 12:32:06

saying stuff like 'Israel can set a good example' is not a good start. Are you interested in whether or not you're antisemitic or are you here to be goady?
^ this.

DrNuShooz Fri 10-Aug-18 12:32:30

Kinder,

Without trying to sound patronising, have you heard of the state of Judea?

I would suggest it was the Jew that were orignally displaced and were just returning to their traditional homelands. Don't forget. Judaism outdates Islam by 2000 plus years.

caroldecker Fri 10-Aug-18 12:32:50

Kinder Not sure you do - your whole stance on this subject revolves around Israel.

DrNuShooz Fri 10-Aug-18 12:33:16

*the Jews.

thefirstmrsdewinter Fri 10-Aug-18 12:35:17

Basically I think if you're obsessed with Israel and/or Nazis and your arguments centre around Israel and/or Nazis there is work to do on your pov.
And the whole 'I'm very critical of all the other countries that commit human right abuses and atrocities' thing is fine, but you're here asking wide-eyed questions about Israel/Palestine.

PinkPepsiCola Fri 10-Aug-18 12:36:04

I think people would be more understanding if the history of Isreal and how it was created was taught in schools. I did history to GCSE level and don't remember learning a thing about it. There was a lot of stuff about the Nazi's, the Cold War etc though.

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:36:21

@DrNuShooz I have in fact. And yes i believe the Jewish people were displaced which was wrong. But why did the Palestinians in 1947 have to pay for the criminal acts of their ancestors? And by displacing them in 1947, wasn't the new Israeli state doung exactly what these criminal ancestors did? It is a genuine question and I not being goady. I genuinely want to be corrected if I am wrong.

KinderBean Fri 10-Aug-18 12:38:37

@Ithefirstmrsdewinter I am asking in reference to antisemitism, because I always thought they were two completely seperate issues, but recently I was getting confused with all the media references to labour party etc. Hence my question. It isn't to prove a point or whatever, I genuinely want to know so I can be a better person.

ClearlyNotAFish Fri 10-Aug-18 12:38:38

Where are the empty, habitable spaces?

DrNuShooz Fri 10-Aug-18 12:40:42

But why did the Palestinians in 1947

You know the people of the area weren't classified or indeed called themselves "Palestinians" in 1947? "Palestinians" is a new construct.

As for your question. I can spin it back to you. Why shouldn't the "Palestinians" pay for the actions of their ancestors? You're now asking now asking modern day Jewish people to pay for the actions of their ancestors.

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now »

Already registered? Log in with: