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No wonder measles is on the rise again...

(153 Posts)
BiddydeBint Fri 20-Apr-18 08:21:25

I'm on a parenting group on Facebook, and a member has posted claiming that her child has had a personality change ever since getting his jabs.
Cue lots of replies going "yes hun, my aunt's cousin's baby was the same, he has autism now, I refused vaccines for my little man"
Lots of talk of things being "hushed up", claims that doctors don't vaccinate their own children etc.

I was all ready to wade in and challenge them with a bit of common sense, but the more I read, the more I realised there is no arguing with these people, because they'll reply "it's all been hushed up, just my opinion hun".

I've known about anti vaxxers for some time, but back when my DC were small, it was only really small groups of "alternative" parents who were against them.

I'm really worried that it's becoming so mainstream and acceptable not to vaccinate

kissthealderman Fri 20-Apr-18 11:21:25


Nevercallmehun Fri 20-Apr-18 11:22:47

These people drive me mad. Stupid and dangerous.

ILikeMyChickenFried Fri 20-Apr-18 11:22:51

All of your "hun" comments suggest these opinion is just found within a certain group of people. Unfortunately even people in the middle classes share these silly beliefs.

OneNightTimeMenaceStrikesBack Fri 20-Apr-18 11:29:51

the MMR didn't cause my sons autism. none of his vaccinations did. it's a terrifying prospect that preventable diseases are on the rise because people are buying into the idea of 'vaccine injuries' and them causing autism. I had measles, mumps and rubella as a small child and I was really ill with all three of them, why anyone would want to put their child at risk of getting any one of them is beyond me ( i had them before the MMR was introduced) I know it's currently a parents choice about whether or not the vaccines are given but i just can't understand why anyone wouldn't want them for their child, barring of course medical reasons why they can't have them, having a genuine medical reason for them not to be given is completely different

SluttyButty Fri 20-Apr-18 12:11:26

DD's friend's mother is an anti vaxxer, so friend is unvaccinated. Dd has had numerous discussions with her about how irresponsible it is to not vaccinate.

My DS' autism was apparent before he even had a vaccination.

I reserve very special words for anti vaxxers 😡

PeterPiperPickedSeaShells Fri 20-Apr-18 12:14:48

There's a measles outbreak in Surrey. Surrey is (largely) with upper middle class. Most anti-vaxxers are upper middle class (IME).
Anyone else spot the connection....? angry

gabsdot Fri 20-Apr-18 12:23:37

I woman I know has just had her first baby and has chosen to not vaccinate. She posts all kinds of things on facebook about how dangerous vaccinations are.
The latest was that taking painkillers during pregnancy can cause something....I can't remember what. ADHD maybe.
Apparently there has been a study among homeschooled kids in the US and the non vaccinated have much less incidents of ADHD, ASD etc.
I worry for her kid.

BustopherJones Fri 20-Apr-18 12:24:57

Most of the antivax people I’ve come into contact with have been middle class. I’ve been extra aware of them because despite having the MMR twice I wasn’t immune when tested in pregnancy. The doctors told me avoid unvaccinated people. I barely met anyone who mentioned it in my first pregnancy, but I’ve met lots of people since having dc. When I was pregnant with my second I was tested again and the MMR I had in hospital after my first birth had thankfully taken.

I do wonder about it being a class thing. One side of my family was very poor and suffered many now preventable diseases. They’d think I was mad to not vaccinate. But surely richer people were also affected by childhood diseases.

UnimaginativeUsername Fri 20-Apr-18 12:32:18

You cannot argue with antivaxxers. It’s just impossible. And you will end up frustrated. They’re like conspiracy theorists (or outright are conspiracy theorists in the ‘cover up’ case) so they simply treat any evidence or sound arguments as ‘evidence’ that there’s a conspiracy. It really is an inescapable illogical loop of doom.

They’re much more vocal and prominent in the Internet than in real life. But, as the measles outbreaks we get indicate, the antivax movement does have real effects in the world. It’s so very frustrating, and preventing people from falling down the antivax conspiracy rabbit hole is a real public health challenge.

Kursk Fri 20-Apr-18 12:32:32

I was vaccinated, I also had mumps which left me deaf in one ear, which is normal.

Unfortunately I don’t think there is anything that we can do. Other than wait for them to realize the mistake, unfortunately

Kursk Fri 20-Apr-18 12:33:29

You could argue that they are speeding up the inevitable fall of the NHS.

dingdongdigeridoo Fri 20-Apr-18 12:34:59

Vaccines categorically do not cause autism. But even if they did, would you rather your child have a deadly disease that could kill them, or a condition that is often manageable? My DS has autism, and although he’s bloody hard work, I get so offended that people would rather see their kids die of measles than have a child like mine.

nocake Fri 20-Apr-18 12:35:06

You can't argue with stupid.

We have a pocket of unvaccinated kids in our town and guess where the measles outbreaks happen? I feel sorry for the kids who are in the same school as they're put at risk.

DuchyDuke Fri 20-Apr-18 12:37:56

It was obvious something was wrong with my cousin’s baby long before the latest jab - but we never mentioned it out of courtesy. She is also going around telling people that MMR caused his autism, but actually all that happened was his diagnosis coincided with his last jab.

HildaZelda Fri 20-Apr-18 12:42:27

Where I live there was an initial measles outbreak in February and numbers have been steadily rising. If you want to be an idiot and not vaccinate your own child, that's bad enough, but stop bringing them out to mix with others when they're bloody infected then! angry

Batteriesallgone Fri 20-Apr-18 12:44:51

So few people know someone who has had measles, mumps or rubella. Anti-vaxxers will continue to gain traction until greater numbers of children start dying or suffering permanent disabilities from these illness.

People prioritise the risks they experience even where their logic is flawed. So people know / have known an autistic child, so their brain sees that as a ‘real’ risk. Even though the link has been disproven etc etc. Few known a child who has died. So they don’t absorb it as a ‘real’ risk. Even though it’s a more likely and disastrous event than that the impossible autism link.

snowsun Fri 20-Apr-18 12:45:59

18 years ago I had my son vaccinated with MMR he had a dreadful reaction ended up unconscious on a drip in hospital.
When the doctor was assessing him she asked me questions amongst others like. Did he talk before the MMR. Did he give eye contact before the MMR. Was he sociable before the MMR.

48 hours later my son was better and back to his normal self. However the health visitors wouldn't talk straight to me about the side effects after. They kept changing the subject , ushering me into a private room when I came into the surgery.

What I'm trying to show is that the government and health service haven't helped the anti vax situation.

The health service made me feel in the way we were treated that there was something to hide. I saw through this but can see why what happened would cause others who heard it or have been through similar to think differently.

BustopherJones Fri 20-Apr-18 12:47:07

Even if you come through diseases like measles okay, you’ve given it somewhere to thrive and possibly mutate. So current treatments may cease to be effective. It really is thoroughly antisocial.

villainousbroodmare Fri 20-Apr-18 12:47:21

Anti-vaccers should all be corralled into a single community and let them see how it all works out when herd immunity is low.
There is apparently a preschool locally here where an anti-vacc ethos is preferred. So sad.

KateGrey Fri 20-Apr-18 12:50:23

My very middle class friend has not vaccinated any of her three kids. I have. Mine both have autism that was very evidently present BEFORE any vaccinations. I find it incredibly frustrating that people don’t vaccinate.

Babdoc Fri 20-Apr-18 12:53:23

My DD1 enjoys taking the piss out of antivaxxers. When they start the autism nonsense, she always responds with "Yeah, I'm sure vaccines caused my own autism. But no idea what caused it in my parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles...oh wait!"
Sadly, they still spout their conspiracy crap, and refuse to accept any evidence of a genetic causation for autism. Even when DD1 points out that two generations of her autistic relatives were born before mass vaccination started!

StopSnoringDearHusband Fri 20-Apr-18 12:56:28

I think you should politely challenge. Disagree without being disagreeable! I don't like to argue on FB and I don't bother with strangers, but I did point out the fallacies between autism and vaccinations when my friend posted a link to US anti-vaccine propoganda.

I was polite and as far as I know we are still friends! Other friends were ruder than me in trying to set her straight!!

specialsubject Fri 20-Apr-18 12:58:04

Good for your daughter!

In previous ages natural selection would have taken care of the wilfully stupid , but modern medicine means it happens less now.

EventNotInData Fri 20-Apr-18 13:05:53

I’ve come across two separate qualified nurses who’ve suggested that homeopathy is a viable alternative to vaccination shock. Now that’s beyond stupid.

That said, I do see people on MN poo-pooing the very idea of vaccine damage completely - there was one upthread - and it’s not helpful. MMR doesn’t cause autism but vaccines do occasionally cause random serious damage - that’s why the government has a vaccine damage fund because there are risks as well as benefits.

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