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If you don't believe in banning the burka - why?

(237 Posts)
LilacBearberry Mon 19-Mar-18 18:11:55

I don't think it should be banned. I do get the security thing, but I don't know. What are your reasons? (Is this sorta thing allowed on Mumsnet?)

WhyBeDennyDifferent Mon 19-Mar-18 18:14:36

I don’t like the burka because it’s intimidating IMO.
I also don’t fully understand why if it’s so important to protect your modesty - why are the men not wearing it?
I also can’t understand why helmets etc are banned in shopping malls but burkas aren’t.

On the whole it doesn’t affect me these are the first 3 reasons I could think of.

overnightangel Mon 19-Mar-18 18:17:13

@WhyBeDennyDifferent you say it doesn’t affect you but you also say you’re intimidated by it?

WhyBeDennyDifferent Mon 19-Mar-18 18:18:26

Well yeah I suppose it does affect me in that way. If I felt intimidated I would usually remove myself from the situation.

Agustarella Mon 19-Mar-18 18:18:36

Because it's just a daft piece of cloth which means something to those who choose to wear it, and does no harm to the rest of us. You might as well ban t shirts or espadrilles. And because it victimises women who are from an already stigmatized religious and probably ethnic minority. And it makes us, the secular majority, look like the bad guys. Live and let live!

Evelynismycatsformerspyname Mon 19-Mar-18 18:18:44

I don't believe in banning items of clothing simply because I don't like them. I'd ban school uniforms and polyester suits and tracksuit bottoms not worn for sport, and stupid hats at weddings... Maybe... Actually I wouldn't.

If you ban religious clothing you have to ban all of it for all religions. Nobody would dream of banning Sikh turbans or orthodox Jewish clothing... No crusifix necklaces obviously... Nuns and monks in their religious clothing are becoming rare, but also need banning I suppose.

tethersend Mon 19-Mar-18 18:18:49

I disagree with the wearing of one, but I am vehemently against a ban. The state should not legislate on women's dress IMO.

Banning it creates rather than solves oppression.

Although I disagree with the reasons for wearing one from a feminist POV, there should be things I disagree with in a free society.

RunMummyRun68 Mon 19-Mar-18 18:19:24

It's hard to 'think 21' a person wearing a full burka

Not impossible if you use your common sense, but not everyone has that!

I'm thinking of the full face covering clothing with just eyesvisible.

LaurieFairyCake Mon 19-Mar-18 18:19:35

Because the burkha is a part of some cultures. I don’t agree with that culture but me ‘not agreeing with it’ is not a good enough reason to exclude women from our society from that culture or to put them at risk by demanding they undress like has happened in France.

I want the culture to change. And it will. Moderate Islam is by FAR the prevailing culture and they will ‘win’ the battle to have Islam as it has previously was before fundamentalist nutters took over.

I regard it as our duty to help that wherever possible and not excluding people while there’s such a seismic shift going on.

BuckleTrow Mon 19-Mar-18 18:19:51

I think the burka itself is an outrage on feminist grounds to be honest.

But also as a feminist I don't think I have the right to decree what women can and can't wear.

ClaudiaWankleman Mon 19-Mar-18 18:24:35

1) My relatives wear a mantilla to church and I don’t think think it’s too different to that.
2) Old ladies often wear headscarves when out and about (although I admit this is dying out) and I don’t think it’s too different to this either.

I do think that faces should be examined when necessary for security (passports when flying etc) but tbh who doesn’t agree with this?

SantaClauseMightWork Mon 19-Mar-18 18:24:50

Burka does look intimidating but hiw often do I see it? I would much rather we have a ferocious debate on NHS and economy and failing schools and all that needs fixing ASAP. Burka is waaaaaaaaaaaayyyy down my list. Sorry.

GreenMeerkat Mon 19-Mar-18 18:27:47

Out of interest, why do those of you who said they find it intimidating feel this way?

Gammeldragz Mon 19-Mar-18 18:29:14

What Tethersend said.

donajimena Mon 19-Mar-18 18:30:10

I don't find it intimidating. I do find it segregating.

WhyBeDennyDifferent Mon 19-Mar-18 18:32:23

santa speak for yourself, I see women wearing them most days.

I find it intimidating because I can’t see the persons face. I’m also scared of people that wear character costumes so could just be me! There’s just something very anonymous about hiding your face in public.

Overthinker1 Mon 19-Mar-18 18:32:30

I see no reason to ban it. You wouldn’t ban any other religious wear. You can hide as much under a nuns habit as you can a burka. I understand some women have no choice as to whether they wear one or not but demanding it is banned is just as bad as demanding it is worn. Demanding it is banned spreads unnecessary fear leading to isolation. What women who are forced to wear them need is encouragement and support to be able to make their own decisions on what they wear not to be harassed in the street by people who listen to the scare mongering the Sun, Daily Fail and other waste of good trees newspapers! How many terror attacks, murders, rapes, robberies or assaults have happened with the culprit wearing a burka vs those who haven’t worn one?

HandbagCrazy Mon 19-Mar-18 18:33:39

I don't think the government should be allowed to ban any clothes. What you wear can reflect many things (your religion / age / nationality) and is none of the governments business.

As PP have said, if we start with this, where will it end?

This is a country that is supposed to be tolerant and welcoming - not authoritarian over something as insignificant as clothing.

Quorafun Mon 19-Mar-18 18:33:43

Banning an item of clothing that women wear, is another form of control over them. I don't like burkhas at all, but I believe that women have the right to choose to wear them, or any other item of clothing.

The security thing that people mention, I think is a valid point. Just like motorcycle helmets need to be removed, I think faces should be seen. But, should a woman want to cover her face, she can always wear a facemark of the sort that prevents bacteria being inhaled? Would you ban that too?

TheMogget Mon 19-Mar-18 18:35:33

RunMummy presumably someone wearing a burka is extremely unlikely to be buying alcohol so don't see why that should be a issue.

Day to day I have no issue with it, everyone should have the choice and freedom to wear what they like.

My only issue is that I can't help but feel that it is another way of oppressing women, and even if wearing it is a 'free choice' by a woman I feel that that has come from a history of oppression...

MyBrilliantDisguise Mon 19-Mar-18 18:36:15

When they banned it (and other religious garb) in France, it meant that a lot of girls, who were going out and about to school and to friends' houses, were no longer allowed out of the house. Rather than increasing freedom, it's hugely reduced it for those girls and women.

Evelynismycatsformerspyname Mon 19-Mar-18 18:38:11

I can't understand how it's intimidating, unless perhaps you are the only person not in a burkha and feel conspicuous/ judged... Are women in burkhas known for any kind of antisocial behaviour? I'd assume not...

I spent five months working in quite a Muslim area of an Indian city many, many years ago, and tbh remember being secretly tempted to buy a burkha for the walk between my accommodation and work - the women were universally lovely, the men not so universally...

Karakandchipattis Mon 19-Mar-18 18:38:43

If there's someone in a niqab buying alcohol (for think 21) which seems fairly unlikely, then she can just be asked to lift her veil in front of a female member of staff to prove age. Hardly complicated. Ditto any other place where a face may need to be seen. Interesting point on motorcyle helmets though.

I'm massively against anyone telling women what they can and can't wear.

BitchQueen90 Mon 19-Mar-18 18:38:57

I find it baffling that people find it intimidating. It's just women going about their daily lives.

People who commit murder, rape, terrorist attacks don't generally go to the trouble of wearing a burkha.

Evelynismycatsformerspyname Mon 19-Mar-18 18:40:36

Yes absolutely from a history of oppression, but banning it, as others say, will give many wearers less freedom not remove oppression. Hopefully eventually it will fade out gradually. Legislating against clothing isn't going to achieve freedom.

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