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What sentence immediately made you disbelieve someone?

(22 Posts)
youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 14:14:34

We all know there’s 3 daises to every story. The 2 given and the truth!

Recently situation where ds accuses of something very out of character for him. I get that doesn’t mean it’s untrue.

When I asked if situation could have been somewhere in middle of the 2 stories I got the response “the only bit of your ds story is he was sat at table working alone. That’s why he’s accusing someone of sabotage when he left the desk. Except I have 20 students who have all given identical witness statements saying they saw your ds do X - and some of them are the nice kids” hmm

I simply responded “why were 20 students watching ds intently enough and for a long enough period to all give identical witness statements about what happened. Why weren’t they getting on with their own work” grin

FWIW I never questioned ‘something’ had happened - just why ds said she’d accused him of doing X but she was telling me she was accusing him of something far worse than original accusation of Y.

Heratnumber7 Sun 17-Dec-17 14:23:44

You're forgetting that some of the witnesss were "nice kids" and so therefore must be believedangry

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 14:27:51

I’m impressed there’s 20 of them and they’re all identical grin

There’s only 25 in the class. What were the other 4 doing confusedhmmwink

Cheekyandfreaky Sun 17-Dec-17 14:31:09

Would it not be better to work with the teacher (I’m assuming) than against? Why would a professional who has been CRB checked and who makes the effort to contact you, lie? I mean they could but maybe trust them first to be coming from an honest place.

LewisFan Sun 17-Dec-17 14:35:08

@cheeky Dbs (crb) checks do not make people honest.

Dbs checks are out of date the second they are printed.

Dbs checks only mean someone has not been caught.....

I would not put so much gravitas on a "professional that has been checked"...

The one that gets me is "I wouldn't lie to you..." when telling me something I know to be untrue grin

Cheekyandfreaky Sun 17-Dec-17 14:36:17

That’s true but why automatic distrust? I don’t understand that.

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 15:23:03

I didn’t say I distrusted teacher.
I said I asked what happened and her response was 20 witnesses.

That immediately made me think confusedhmm nothing like being on the defuse to make someone question the truth!

And fwiw despite this I supported the school and HOY was very grateful for it - especially as he knows ds well and also said it sounds very out of character.

ChardonnaysPrettySister Sun 17-Dec-17 15:28:17

The 20 identical statements would make me wonder too.

It's impossible for this many people to see and say the same thing.

SerPants Sun 17-Dec-17 15:45:30

Do you think they all could have been influenced by the teacher? Or one of the pupils? I've known this sort of thing happen with adults so it's certainly possible it could happen with kids. .

How old are the kids involved?

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 15:53:26

There’s a whoooollllleeeee back story.
It’s sorted now. HOY actually seemed on ds side although he never said it.

I just wanted to start a light hearted thread about things others have heard that have immediately got their spidey senses up and immediate thought - yeah right?! grin

MaisyPops Sun 17-Dec-17 15:56:23

It sounds a little off to me.

In situations like this i tend to agree with you that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Equally, I can recall a situation in school where a pupil said something about a teacher and the head came in and we all had to write in silence anything that happened yesterday afternoon. I remember writing that one boy was being silly and teasing the girls and that the teacher had told him off and one girl had been cheeky so the teacher had said somethibg like 'you'd be getting detention if that carries on at big school'. Lots of us were confused because we couldn't think of anything big that had happened. Turns out one girl had made an allegation that the teacher had yelled at her and humilated her. Mum had come in all guns blazing. Nobody in the class mentioned it and all our statements seemed to include random 'Tommy was told to stop playing with scissors'. So it can be that group statements are the same. After that lots of people kept their distance from the girl because she'd been proven to be a liar.

I don't think the teacher should have said 'and they are nice kids'. If having investigated the consensus is that studnets did see your DC do X then that's worth considering.

Sirzy Sun 17-Dec-17 15:56:34

“I’m not .... but” always makes me think they are what they say they aren’t

MaisyPops Sun 17-Dec-17 16:04:33

youarenotkiddingme
Cross posted with you.
Glad it's all sorted.

Things that have set my spidey senses off:
- When I got a detention letter for a child in my form with SEN who tries exceptionally hard claiming they'd not put enough effort into their assesments because 'they'd not written enough' (that letter made it straight back to that teacher with a request from me to see the child's work)
- most calls from parents containing the phrases 'they were ONLY...they were JUST...'

Witchend Sun 17-Dec-17 16:09:23

Well they probably weren't identical. But if they all included "Tommy was told to stop playing with scissors" then it is reasonable to conclude that Tommy was probably told to stop playing with scissors, and, if Tommy's mother came to dispute this, then it would be reasonable to say that 20 witnesses had said this was true.

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 16:11:39

Interesting about the SEN maisy. Because some of her other complaints about ds were

• writing is illegible (has OT and physio input for poor grip and spasticity in muscles)
•socially struggles with peers (he’s autistic!)
•lacks focus and hums and sings to self in class.

I have a feeling the “yeah but I have 20 witnesses” might have been a desperate attempt at regaining the high ground when asked if she’d ever actually read his EHCP?!

I can honestly say I’m open to the possibility of ds doing anything (he’s an extremely random child!) but also know what’s likely and what isn’t.

I’m thinking 20 identical witnesses isn’t - so I guess I’ll never know!

MaisyPops Sun 17-Dec-17 16:25:03

If his humming in class is disruptive (which it may well be) then it's not unreasonable for her to ask he stops and put a different strategy in place.
Handwriting sounds like the teacher hasn't paid much attention to his EHCP unless there is more to it (e.g. i had a students who should havr had a word processor and extra time but categorically refused it. Thry needed to get used to word processing at speed ready for exams but wouldn't access it so i did call home about handwriting etc because the student was refusing the access arrangements so i was concerned about defiance and impact on their progress)

I think saying 'identical' probably wasn't helpful. A lot depends on what they are saying your DC has done. As Witchend said, they may not be identical but if they all say (for example) Tommy screwed a piece of work up and threw it then it's the sort of thing you'd expect the class to see (mine noticed when I changed my eye makeup. Kids notice ridiculous things sometimes).

I think you're right that it's a bit more grey than black and white.

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 16:43:54

Not like that ^. Not implementing stuff in EHCP but complaining about behaviours which result from not implementing it and punishing for behaviours.
I tried to work with her but she insisted ds was 50% to blame for everything because of annoying behaviours. (Far more complicated than explaining here)
Ds basically refused to attend her lessons anymore and then out came this “I agree because last lesson he did X”. Ds gave different version but details similar (iyswim?) and that’s when the 20 witnesses bit came out.

Hoy was at meeting and he knows I’ve never claimed ds to be an angel. Any parent who claims that is laying themselves shakey ground!

MaisyPops Sun 17-Dec-17 16:50:08

In which case it does very much sound like she's not pulling her weight. (I gave the example as an example of when it would be ok to make parents aware of things that are listed in an EHCP / support plan if a student wasn't doing their part) The teacher should be doing more.
Having a child out of class should be a last resort or a time limited response to a particular situation (E.g. I once had a boy working out of class for a week because he seemed to think making explicit and sexual jokes towards other pupils were funny), not because a teacher doesn't feel like supporting a child.
At least you have a supportive head of year who should be able to have a word about needing to implement EHCP requirements.

FrLukeDuke Sun 17-Dec-17 19:19:14

Except I have 20 students who have all given identical witness statements saying they saw your ds do X
Might this be because the thing they are saying your ds did is something that would draw the attention of the rest of the class and cause them all to look at him at the same time? Eg. If there was a sudden noise or movement

FrLukeDuke Sun 17-Dec-17 19:20:56

Although I guess it can't be that or you wouldn't be wondering why they would all looking at him at that tume

youarenotkiddingme Sun 17-Dec-17 20:15:15

It was putting too much water in a beaker!
Punishment was for not following instructions!

The 20 children witnessed him putting 5 instead of 4 spoons of something else in too.

You really would have had to be sat watching ds intently to witness that. And that’s the by ds denied.

Originally it was just water. Which ds admitted to and just said he misheard instruction.

FrLukeDuke Sun 17-Dec-17 20:30:39

Oh yes that doesn't ring true that they all happened to be looking at that!

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