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I have finally reached peak trans. (Contains discussion of sexual assault).

(231 Posts)
Pissedoffhadenough Wed 18-Oct-17 11:34:49

Sorry, long post.

A friend's "Me too" post became a long discussion, mainly caused by someone butting in with the inevitable "But men are raped too". So start your own post about it then, but stop interrupting women's discussions.

Someone we'll call Alex (name changed) was writing long, patronising replies, mansplaining rape statistics, and insisting that I wasn't allowed to discuss the assault of women unless I included the assault of men. I'm sick of these things happening.

I answered back and told him to stop mansplaining. Someone else commented, just checking I knew Alex was female, right? hmm He'd been mansplaining in a typical way. He had a unisex name. His photo was of a group of people so I didn't know which one was him. (Now that I know which one, he doesn't pass).

And I know women sometimes interrupt with comments about male victims too, so it's not an exclusively male trait. But it was done in a very aggressive way.

As if this wasn't bad enough, Alex then said something about sexual equality, and how he didn't feel less important than men. hmm

So I've just had a trans woman mansplaining rape to me. And you know what made it even worse was that I couldn't even say he wasn't a real woman anyway, because I know I would lose friends and be shouted down forever. Women are scared to speak out, for fear of threats and violence. How can we fight back when we can't even speak?

As if that wasn't bad enough, I tried to discuss it with my DH. My DH is a very scientific guy, very rational, very big on evidence and peer review and facts. I said that men and women are differentiated by basic biology. He actually said "Yes, that's basic biology. Now you need to learn some advanced biology". Seriously. It's turning into facts vs alternative facts. I can't even speak to my DH about women's safety any more without him bringing up trans people.

Ten years ago I supported trans people and believed in their rights. No more, not after all this recent hoo-ha. It seems we can barely discuss anything any more without it being about trans people. I've had enough.

fruitlovingmonkey Wed 18-Oct-17 11:42:29

Welcome to the side of sanity. I recommend a stiff drink and a lot of self- care. Some days I just have to switch off before my lady brain explodes wink.

Pissedoffhadenough Wed 18-Oct-17 11:54:51

I've been thinking about this stuff for a while now so it wasn't a sudden realisation, just that yesterday was the final straw.

But how can we speak out when we'll instantly be unfriended and witchhunted?

And how can I speak to my husband? He's a gentle guy but he seemed quite aggressive during this argument. Even when we argue about minor things he's usually calm. He's not an aggressive person usually. He knows been in am abusive relationship in the past, and I knew from experience he's not one of them. I was really shocked by his tone of voice. We've been together ten years, he's been them calm and stability in my life and I've never seen this side of him before.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 18-Oct-17 11:56:10

yes, that's basic biology. Now you need to learn some advanced biology

He said what!!!

Was he joking...

Coffeeandcrochet Wed 18-Oct-17 11:57:00

I'm a biologist...and I'd love to hear about the 'advanced biology' your husband is referring to hmm

Sorry you've had this experience. It gets pretty wearying pretty quickly.

user1471459936 Wed 18-Oct-17 11:57:23

What does he mean by advanced biology?

Pissedoffhadenough Wed 18-Oct-17 12:02:31

Yes, he really said that. I know, I'm shocked too. It's really not like him. He's not usually one to talk shit. It's completely out of character.

What he probably means is a modern interpretation of the relevance of chromosomes, or something. He tried to explain it but couldn't.

christinarossetti Wed 18-Oct-17 12:03:04

I've noticed this too, that men who decide to identify as trans women or whatever don't actually stop behaving like men when they're interacting with women.

And other women make excuses for them 'because they're trans/a woman'.

user1471459936 Wed 18-Oct-17 12:04:20

I'm sorry, that sounds terrible. You must be quite hurt by his lack of support. And confused as to what the fuck he is on about.

Coffeeandcrochet Wed 18-Oct-17 12:25:07

A modern interpretation of the relevance of chromosomes hmm he probably couldn't explain it because it's total bull, but no doubt it's your fault really for not being able to understand hmm

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 18-Oct-17 12:30:12

I am really sorry pissed

My dh thinks i go on a bit but he absolutely agrees with me on many of these issues

Its dreadful when you feel you disagree on such a fundamental level

Maybe if its a one off he will calm diwn slightly?

Lottapianos Wed 18-Oct-17 12:31:25

'It's turning into facts vs alternative facts'

Yep. Its bonkers and exhausting and brain-meltingly stupid. Totally with you OP. I'm horrified that your scientist DP is arguing with you about this shock

Pissedoffhadenough Wed 18-Oct-17 12:50:46

Another thing that happened was that I sent him a link to that petition that's been going around, about the ONS wanting to make the sex question optional in the next census. The very first thing he said was "What about trans people?" FFS, if the census organisers want to count trans people, they can always add extra possible answers apart from male and female, or have a question for sex and another question for gender. That's already been discussed. But no, the first thing he thinks of is avoiding upsetting trans people, at the expense of women being counted. We need basic statistics in order to help women. Maybe trans people can only be helped with advanced statistics,because women are too basic. hmm

EddieHitler Wed 18-Oct-17 12:53:55

What do you mean by, 'He doesn't pass'?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 18-Oct-17 13:00:44

eddie

He doesnt pass as a women

Lemonyfuckit Wed 18-Oct-17 13:08:03

Delurking to say am so totally with you on this OP. I'm fed up of trans people's rights and feelings being considered at the expense of women's rights and safety, at any woman who tries to have a discussion on trans issues or being gender critical being aggressively shouted down and labeled a TERF/bigot and think you've hit the nail on the head Cristinarosetti re. trans women still interacting with women in the same way as men do.
And just like you OP, I had a blazing row with my usually calm, very feminist DP hmm

MillicentFawcett Wed 18-Oct-17 13:08:27

There was (unusually) quite a good piece on gender identity on the Today programme this morning. May be worth a listen.

Also the fact sheets from SAGEs are brilliant in explaining the issues in a clear and factual way: sages.org.uk/

EddieHitler Wed 18-Oct-17 13:09:04

He doesn't pass as a woman. Is that actually relevant? Is what s/he looks like important?

Is this trans-hatred aimed at one areshole who happens to be trans or all people who are transgender?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 18-Oct-17 13:11:15

See

I think You knew what pass meant all along

user1471459936 Wed 18-Oct-17 13:13:45

Yeah. Looks like Eddie wants an argument. OP was just venting about one arsehole (as you put it) and he husband.

OldPony Wed 18-Oct-17 13:15:36

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EddieHitler Wed 18-Oct-17 13:15:57

Eeerrr, no. I don't get it.

Is this 'trans-hatred thing' an actual thing then?

Like homophobia?

EddieHitler Wed 18-Oct-17 13:17:08

Fucking hell. I'm shocked. I'll close the door quietly behind me.

Littlechocola Wed 18-Oct-17 13:23:00

Finally Eddie, voice of reason!

Pissedoffhadenough Wed 18-Oct-17 13:23:09

Yes it is relevant, because he looks like a bloke and writes like a bloke, but I was apparently expected to know he was a woman. Plenty of trans people don't "pass" (i.e. don't get recognised as their preferred gender by most people at first glance), and now they're taking it out on other people.

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