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Can my employer do this?

(76 Posts)
lala349296 Sat 23-Sep-17 03:52:58

hi everyone, i work Friday and Saturday evenings in a pub, ive been here since February.

long story short after a crap year me and boyfriend decided to book Florida over Christmas, and tonight I went to put my holidays in and I'm "not allowed holidays over Christmas new year" even though Xmas eve/day/New Years Eve/Day, aren't my traditional work days. I'm also part time at college and I'm not prepared to work during college hours, as seen on the Christmas rota. I wasn't even aware of this, as I've not been told anything, I feel like absolute shit.

Several employees take the piss and I've never had a day off or any bad reports since being there, unlike other staff members who just do what they want, and have been caught stealing.

I want to look for a new job but all are Xmas temp, I found one but one day is off my college hours by 3 hours and I don't know whether a new employee would appreciate me jetting off in December, is this right what my employer is doing? I don't get sick pay either so can't even pull a sickie.

Someone help I don't know what to do

Fannylodger Sat 23-Sep-17 03:58:54

What does your contract say about public holidays/Xmas etc?
You'll have to go by that, I'm afraid.
In future don't book a holiday without clearing it with work first because this could happen.
YANBU to be upset though.

Fannylodger Sat 23-Sep-17 04:01:12

Are you able to get a refund and rebook the holiday for late January? I think that's the most reasonable thing to do here.
If they've put you on the rota and there's nothing in your contract stating you can't/aren't expected to work those days there isn't much you can do, aside from "pull a sickie" which as you say isn't viable due to the lack of sickpay (they'd also probably know since you've now asked for those days off).

lala349296 Sat 23-Sep-17 04:01:25

fannylodger i never even signed a contract, nothing was told about holidays, just that i work Fridays and Saturdays

Fannylodger Sat 23-Sep-17 04:21:15

Then I'd say you're likely out of luck. I work in a pub (back of house).
Staff can be rota'd for public holidays unless there's a specific clause in their contract stating they can't be, even those who are "only part time" and if you kick up enough of a stink, given that it's work that lots of people want. Your hours can be cut/you can be asked to leave (which you're even more vulnerable to since you don't have a contract).
It's unfortunate but that's the way it is. Workers rights are fucked as it is but in catering and hospitality it's 100x worse.
Is it possible to rebook the holiday at all? I would do that, or if you can afford to, quit/refuse to work it and let them fire you. But I suspect you can't afford that if you can't live on sickpay for the week.
I have every sympathy for your situation but I don't see any other way for you out of this tbh. flowers

lala349296 Sat 23-Sep-17 04:23:19

i can't rebook i can't get a refund and tonchange the date I have to rebook the tickets then lose my deposit on the villa and rebook it, im so upset, my boss has let staff have holidays on bank holiday no problem so i thought it was okay, my boss drinks heavily so i have to talk to them when they're sober apparently 🙄 I need a new job

Fannylodger Sat 23-Sep-17 04:25:10

Damn sad
Well, I hope you sort something.
And your boss sounds like an arse, by the way.

lala349296 Sat 23-Sep-17 04:25:46

im gonna apply for all the Xmas ones this weekend, pub work isn't fun now haha

PigletWasPoohsFriend Sat 23-Sep-17 05:19:33

You will be expected to work Christmas and New Year in Christmas Temp jobs!

sashh Sat 23-Sep-17 05:33:27

Yes employers can dictate when you can and can't take holiday.

Surely it's common sense that if you work in hospitality you will be expected to work over Xmas?

AlphaStation Sat 23-Sep-17 05:37:24

In my experience the employer decides when you can take your vacation, unilaterally, although most of the time it's ok it might well end up like you describe. For instance I was ordered to work the New Years Eve and -Day in the year 2000 because of the presumed millennium bug. Whether or not one has had days off before has nothing to do with it, and you couldn't pull a sickie either, unless you were - * ahem * - sick... You should have checked beforehand if it was OK, before booking and paying for the trip. If you had had the vacation approved beforehand. Now - money lost probably.

ItsNiceItsDifferentItsUnusual Sat 23-Sep-17 05:40:37

To be fair if I worked Friday and Saturday but Christmas was not Friday or Saturday, then I wouldn't expect to be working Christmas, no. Not without a prior discussion anyway.

ivykaty44 Sat 23-Sep-17 05:41:56

I doubt there will be much work in January and you may get laid if anyway.

TBH without a contract of employment or hand book you can both do what you like

Have you told your manager your booked on holiday?

You can't be drafted into work if you are at college and don't normally work

I'd look for something else when you get back from Florida

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 Sat 23-Sep-17 05:42:25

You should never have even booked the holiday without checking you would be allowed the time off.

Even if we temporarily forget the fact that the majority of hospitality and retail places will not let you take a holiday in December at all, what if one of your colleagues had booked it off? (And considering how most people would want Christmas off if they could have it, it would have been booked up about a year in advance!)

Is this your first job, OP?

JWrecks Sat 23-Sep-17 05:53:47

You should never have even booked the holiday without checking you would be allowed the time off.

I agree with this and would never book anything without first discussing with my employer, even being guaranteed annual leave etc at my discretion. I would always check and make sure there is no conflict before committing. That said, you're in an awful spot now so this doesn't help. Hopefully it will help in the future, because they can tell you that you must work, even if you have paid for a holiday and everything.

I would recommend talking to your employer again, and telling them that the whole thing is already booked and paid, and that you cannot now get the money back. Could you tell them that your DP did the booking without checking with you? Ask them to reconsider, allow you to make it up somehow, or work with you in any other way.

Also remind them that you are only able to work those specific days, so you should not (and cannot) be on the rota for other days.

BoomBoomsCousin Sat 23-Sep-17 05:58:04

OP I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I think it was naive to think you could take the Christmas period off when you work in a pub, especially when it's your first Christmas, but it's a hard way to learn that holiday is almost always at the convenience of the employer.

Look for another job, if only because your boss is a drunk and that's rarely a good position to be in. If you can find one in a company that doesn't normally work over the Christmas period, you can probably ask to start in Jan and leave your current employer in time to go on holiday. Alternatively, if you have some savings built up, you can hand your notice so that you finish in time for your holiday and look for something when you get back, but it may be hard to get another job in the same field if you've not been available when they need you most, I don't know if that's something other landlords might check.

rwalker Sat 23-Sep-17 06:02:52

sure they can be honest with your boss tell him you have booked a holiday presuming that you were off .Ask him if you can have the time off , guessing holiday cost over £700 must be over 3 months wages so just leave and you have 3 months to find another job

AlphaStation Sat 23-Sep-17 06:12:19

^ That's also an option.

daisychain01 Sat 23-Sep-17 06:17:37

I'll try to be restrained in how I say this ... I can't believe you went ahead and invested in a long haul holiday booking before getting your Leave days approved by your manager.

I lost you when I got to the bit I don't get sick pay either so can't even pull a sickie

Hopefully by the time you've finished your college course you'll have learned a thing or two about how to behave in the world of work.

NerrSnerr Sat 23-Sep-17 06:18:25

You'll be expected to work over Christmas in a Christmas temp job! When I worked in an old job we couldn't book leave over Christmas- was just one of those rules.

I'd try to appeal to the manager but not hold my breath.

daisychain01 Sat 23-Sep-17 06:21:25

but it's a hard way to learn that holiday is almost always at the convenience of the employer

I'm very much for fair treatment of employees but I disagree that the OP should be given the illusion that holiday leave is a "convenience" - its called keeping the trains running, so the business operates efficiently and having cover at all times. That's a necessity not a convenience!

icklekid Sat 23-Sep-17 06:22:55

I think folk are being a bit harsh op. If you only work 3 set days then why would they assume you'd work extra days without any discussion. I'd tell your boss you can't. They can either keep a good employee or let you go. Depends how much you need this job I guess

PerfumeIsAMessage Sat 23-Sep-17 06:22:58

Unfortunately no contract, pub work and Christmas probably means you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. All types f employment have the annual fight to get Christmas and NY off and it's often sorted out months in advance. A lot of areas specify that certain periods are not eligible for time off and I'd imagine logically pubs are going to be one of them.
All temp jobs AFAIK in the run up to Christmas will expect you to be willing to put in extra hours.

opheliacat Sat 23-Sep-17 06:32:50

I'd quit sometime in November, then start something in the New Year.

ForalltheSaints Sat 23-Sep-17 07:23:30

I think you should have checked first. Employers are allowed to decide when holidays can be taken, the only objection would be if they are inconsistent or as with Ryanair, withdraw agreement for certain dates after they are granted.

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