Anyone else an Amazon hypocrite?

[Sludgecolours]

I've been reading with increasing horror reports of Amazon workers being exploited and over-worked but I am finding it hard to find any concrete facts about this.

In the meantime, I am ordering the bulk of my Christmas presents on-line via Amazon, as I do every year.

Anyone else feeling increasingly uncomfortable about this?

Does anyone know where I can find any solid information on the subject?

[Toblernone]

Trouble is if everyone boycotted those employees would get sacked and be even worse off, I'm buying stuff off Amazon as usual and keeping on and on at my MP and minister for work by email to take them to task, if prices go up to treat them better I'll happily bear it.

[LizzieSiddal]

I’m the same, about 80% of presents has come off amazon, the rest from a John Lewis on line. I feel very guilty with both tbh. I got an email from DHL to tell me when my JL parcel was arriving and was told words to the effect: “Andy will deliver your parcel, between 3.05 and 4.05. He is on parcel 12 and yours is 107”. So I wonder if all these delivery companies are the same??

The one thing I do with Amazon which makes me feel slightly better, is that I never tick the Prime delivery box during Xmas. (unless it’s an emergency). I think it means less pressure is out on everyone if it’s not guaranteed for next day delivery.

[LizzieSiddal]

Excuse typos and dreadful grammar

[VanGoghsLeftEar]

I am an Amazon hypocrite. I bought most of my presents on Amazon, and I am a Prime member. I feel a bit shit about myself, when I am always on Twitter promoting workers rights and the trade union movement. The founder Steve Bezos I think he's called, is worth billions yet his workers can't pay their rent. And I encourage it.

I also hate using Uber and Deliveroo because of their working practices, but I still do. (I tip them in cash, to ease my conscience) I am going to get flamed but I work shifts, I find it difficult to fit everything in, and technology is a big part of me getting stuff done. I would encourage these companies to look after their workers better, by whinging about it online and writing to my MP etc, but I am guilty of using them.

[LizzieSiddal]

And I don’t believe the “people will lose their jobs” if everyone boycotted Amazon.

They’d lose their job with Amazon BUT they’d be quickly reemployed by the other companies people order from instead.

[catwoozle]

I wouldn't know where to get some things if not from Amazon. I've been a customer practically since they started.

[LizzieSiddal]

You can find the things they sell on many on other websites but the price and delivery, usually don’t compare withAmazon. Maybe that’s because they don’t pay taxes or their employees properly.

[Bluelonerose]

I no a couple of people who work in the big Amazon warehouse by me.
They don't have anything majorly negative to say just normal things you say about a job.

[apolipopleptic]

I haven’t bought anything from amazon for a few years cos of their tax dodging. Definitely takes a bit more time in research at first but not actually too tricky in the end. Foyles for books, John Lewis for eg kitchen stuff. I discovered this week that HMV still exists for music/DVD’s etc. Lots of different online retailers out there. Delivery often not as quick as amazon and so a bit more planning required, and stuff is generally a bit more expensive - but I suppose that’s the tax!

I’m still a hypocrite about lots of other things though - and I definitely haven’t checked the credentials of every company I do buy from. But not buying from amazon definitely poss.

Happy Christmas y’all!

[Cakedoesntjudge]

I am a massive amazon hypocrite, and a prime member as well. I know people that have worked at the amazon warehouse locally and said it's awful and that was a few years ago so I can't imagine it's any better now. I do feel awful about myself for using them so much at Christmas when I stop and think about it.

[Sludgecolours]

Thanks for all the responses. Glad to know I am not the only one!

And hats off to those of you who have been contacting your MPs about this.

Catwoozle I've been a long-standing customer too - and no doubt about it - I love the convenience of shopping at Amazon. I live abroad and can't find many of the things I want where I live. In fact, I think I must be one of their best customers!

I'm assuming Amazon has done a lot of good for small outlets in terms of distribution and bringing their products to a much wider audience.

That's really interesting Bluelonerose. Aside from a few newspaper articles, one gets the impression that it is such a closed world. I would love to find out some more facts about this. For example, who inspects the bodies and working conditions? Where can I find their reports (if available to the public)?

LizzieSidal poor Andy ... .

[Sludgecolours]

Who inspects the bodies ??? (Sorry, have obviously been reading too many crime novels.)

Who inspects the buildings and working conditions I meant? Presumably we have fairly good minimum standards here in the UK (while we are still in the EU anyway)?

x posts

Oh, not so good about reports from your local warehouse Cakesdoesn'tjudge

Good for you Apolipopleptic!

[Bluelonerose]

Don't get me wrong I haven't had full on conversations about their jobs but like I said just normal things youde say about a job your only working at to pay the bills.

It COULD be really bad and I've just not picked up on it.

[megletthesecond]

No. I virtually stopped using them about five years ago. I had to order something a year ago and the kids are given the odd voucher but apart from that I've managed to avoid them.

[Yesanothernewusernamecosstuff]

I'm not worried about Amazon.
I've worked retail at Christmas, shop workers are exploited too, but not many people stick up for them.
The "they could get another job" line is trotted out. Not helpful when you need that crappy minimum wage job to keep a roof over your head.
Finish at 6pm on Christmas eve and back in at 7am on boxing day. Not much of a Christmas, but you work it or get "managed out of the business"
It crap, but y'know, people need stuff. Lots of stuff. Now.

[JezzaNotTrezza]

Haven't used them for 4.5 yes, closed my account and told them why. Really haven't missed them at all. Wordery has competitive book prices and free delivery, would recommend. I do use eBay whose tax affairs are not perfect, but I feel more comfortable supporting individual sellers iyswim.

[NoBreakNoProblem]

You're not the only one. You're even the majority of the population. I personally don't remember the last time I bought anything from a physical shop. Don't have the patience for browsing neither do I have a fortune to spend on overpriced items on the high street.

Online you've got more choices, more freedom to take your time to think about an item. You can even buy sex toys while keeping a straight face

Of course, like everything else in life, nothing is perfect. Everything has a downside. That includes the overworked Amazon warehouse employees. But again, as a university lecturer myself, I'm also overworked and stressed by students, routine, papers, research, endless queue of deadlines and meetings. Perhaps the Amazon workers are mostly physically consumed. I also understand some of them work double shifts (not to blame them if the pay isn't that great).

The other spinoff is the delivery people. I was shocked the other day when I took a look into a delivery van parked outside my house. I had to stop and ask the driver ...how on earth are you expected to deliver all these parcels by 5pm?? There was also the delivery man who brought a heavy item to me (I helped out), only to collapse afterwards. I had to call the ambulance for him. These examples surely represent the dark side of online retail. But perhaps if you take a peek into the kitchen at KFC's or McDonald's, a similar pattern appears.

As the online retail industry becoming the norm, the laws will evolve to match. That's not say that capitalism provides fair treatment for all, of course. There's certainly still much to do to improve the working conditions of those poor people.

[JezzaNotTrezza]

www.burtonmail.co.uk/news/burton-news/undercover-reporter--reveals-whats-like-845682

An account of Amazon warehouse conditions

[LizzieSiddal]

YesAnother Dh and I have never shopped on 24th or 26th and 27th, mainly as I feel so sorry for the shop workers who aren’t getting a proper break. If the shops ALL closed until 28th, the stuff would all still be there!

[Apileofballyhoo]

Yes, I am. Normally because I can't source obscure Santa gifts otherwise. I've tried to stick only to those, but this year I've bought a few more things to get free delivery. Won't buy anything from them all year though.

[AdamBarlowsQuiff]

Wish more people thought like that @lizziesiddal I worked new years day last year in a shop and shoppers were expressing amazement we were open..well,if you didn't come in they wouldn't open next year would they!

[QueenOnAPlate]

I'm a total Amazon hypocrite. But I went shopping in town yesterday, the rain tore the paper bags my shopping was put into, spoiling a few things, and I had to stand on the bus going home with 5 bags ( and I have a brain thing that makes me a bit wobbly). So I'm back to Amazon but I've put a huge tub of Quality street in my porch, and some bottles of water with a help yourself sign, and I'm making a huge effort to be extra thankful to the drivers. I'm seriously going to rethink what to do next year.

[Sludgecolours]

Again, I am impressed by those of you who have made conscious decisions to shop elsewhere. I need to have a serious think about this.

Thanks for the link Jezza I can't access it over here (I'm in Europe Zone 1) for some reason though. I am trying to find trading standards reports but they are very difficult to track down.

NoBreakNoProblem I agree that Amazon shopping is wonderfully liberating (in a number of ways) but that the downsides are many.

Also feel that the gradual erosion of workers' rights can be seen in every area of commerce and activity nowadays. You have my sympathies in the academic arena because a close family friend, who is a senior academic in the UK, recently had a full psychotic breakdown requiring hospitalisation, which was largely attributed to work induced stress. (They regularly received e-mails at midnight or 1 am to which responses were expected in the morning - that is just one example among many of the unrealistic expectations placed upon them.)

I also agree that the legislation governing on-line sales has not yet caught up with current activity levels (perhaps because on-line selling in Europe is generally very much behind that of the uk?). I think capitalism works at its best when thoroughly and extensively regulated (and I say this as someone who helps their dh run their own business).

Also agree that the demands placed upon delivery drivers are overwhelming and increasingly unrealistic. The drivers who deliver packages to our office barely have time to pause to say hello. One apologised and ask for water last week, because he hadn't had time to have a drink all day.

I don't want to derail the thread but this is one of the fears I have post Brexit; that the basic rights of employees will be less well protected than they are now. And all of those people who feel put upon and exploited in their employment situation now, and who voted leave as a result, will be terribly disappointed. I heard Dyson talking to Andrew Marr the other day and he said quite openly that one of his hopes post Brexit was that he would be able to "respond to the ups and downs of market demands more flexibly" (or words to that effect). I wonder what would mean in reality for his employees?

On the other hand, I think Amazon is a huge help to those who are elderly, disabled, or in caring roles, so I take your point QueenonaPlate! I am able bodied and crowded hot shops, especially at this time of year, are my idea of hell! That's so lovely that you have left out chocolates for your delivery drivers!

LizzieSidal/Yesanotherusername/AdamBarlowsQuiff I must admit I am spoilt where I live because it is a lot less commercial at Christmas than in the UK. (Most shops are closed here on a Sunday too although that is changing gradually.) There's none of the last minute shopping hysteria that I have experienced in the UK in the past. (Mind you, having said that, shopping is generally much better in the UK!)

As you say, I really, really, feel sorry for shop workers who have to work on Christmas eve and again on Boxing Day. Who needs to shop on Boxing Day really? It's hardly a necessity is it? I think we need to start a campaign!

[Lovemusic33]

I have done most of my shopping on Amazon, I appreciate that their staff are treated badly and made to work really hard for little money. To the person that said ‘if amazon sacked them they would find work with other companies’ if there was work with other companies don’t you think they would have chose to work there instead if they felt they were being treated badly by Amazon? There’s not millions of jobs out there waiting for people to jump into which is why these people take jobs with Amazon, yes they are being treated unfairly but if they are willing to stay and put up with it then that will never change.

Shopping in real shops has become too stressful, people are often to buy to go shopping in town, it takes ages to park, fuel prices are high, there’s a lack of public toilets, takes ages to pay, people are to lazy to lug bags around (bags you have to pay for) and quite often you can’t find what your looking for. So much easier to sit in your pj’s at home with a glass of wine and shop online.

[Sludgecolours]

Shopping in real shops has become too stressful, people are often to buy to go shopping in town, it takes ages to park, fuel prices are high, there’s a lack of public toilets, takes ages to pay, people are to lazy to lug bags around (bags you have to pay for) and quite often you can’t find what your looking for. So much easier to sit in your pj’s at home with a glass of wine and shop online.

Couldn't agree more with all of the above Lovemusic33 and would add (after my shopping experiences yesterday) spending ages queuing for the privilege to pay and (a) being constantly observed as though one is a thief or (b) ignored!

Apologies to the majority of retail staff who are lovely and don't give you accusatory looks and/or ignore though!