This is an edited transcript of our live online chat with
broadcaster and journalist, Libby Purves, on 28 Feb 2001. Libby has written several
non-fiction books, including the classic "How Not to be a
Perfect Mother" and more recently, "Nature's
Masterpiece", a humorous look at family life and all that it entails.
Thanks to all of you who took part. Kia: What would you leave out if you the chance to do it all
again?
Libby: My
first serious boyfriend, frankly...it wasn't so much him who gave me the runaround as his
infernal mother, for whom I was not good enough. It took me 3 years after it all blew up
to work out that I was, after all, not a demon trollop from hell.
Mooma: I
read your articles each week in 'The Times', and am always struck by your insightful and
intelligent comments, which invariably run against the tide of received wisdom. Have you
ever considered entering politics? I often find myself yelling "Libby for PM"
after my weekly 'fix'!
Libby:
The trouble is, Mooma, that journalists (who can often see quite clearly what is wrong)
are rarely the right people to fix it. Administration is a different art. I am afraid that
people like me are most useful jeering (or making helpful suggestions, or even cheering)
from the sidelines.
Also, I could not bear to knuckle under to a party political machine. Have watched too
many good people (like Harriet Harman and Frank Field) crushed by it...
Marina: I
thought Nature's Masterpiece was an hilarious and wise revisit of your earlier books on
parenting older children, all of which have given me a lot of laughs and good advice.
Some things have moved on quite a lot since you wrote "How not to be the perfect
mother", and I wondered if you had any flashes of insight into how to manage the
work/home balance for households with toddlers, now that more of us are both working
full-time outside the home. No cheating! Some of us are desk slaves not journalists who
can work more flexibly...
Libby:
I know, I know...women journalists must be VERY careful not to assume that everyone has it
as easy as we do ("Work from home three days a week" is really bad advice for
e.g. a hospital nurse...).
These things help: 1) being very effective and essential while you ARE at work, and then
making it politely clear that you leave ON TIME and do not get landed with frilly bits and
after-work drinks etc.
2) Explaining to children as soon as they can possibly understand that they do COME FIRST
and that you think about them even when you're at the office or wherever; bring them home
interesting things, or jokes, or stories of what you saw; draw them together, play
mummy-at-work games. All this helps them feel involved and secure. If they feel reasonable
(never ecstatic, face it) about you working, you will feel better, and everyone will be
more cheerful.
All this advice also applies to DADS. Mothers should not be the only torn ones...
Croppy: I
too am an avid reader of your weekly Times column and often have to restrain myself from
shouting in agreement (especially on emotionally charged issues such as Alder Hey where
you were a beacon of common sense). I also very much enjoy "Midweek".
Anyway, I am in my early 30's and work for a leading investment bank and have a 15 month
old child. I work on the trading floor with 11 hour days although as I live just north of
the city, I am always home by 6. As you would expect I am handsomely rewarded financially
and also, very much enjoy my job. I have always been keen to maintain my financial
independence and my current plan is to give up work in around 6 years time when we have
paid off our mortgage and I will have enough savings to continue to support my widowed
mother without needing to call on my husband. My husband is very supportive of my career
and works similar hours.
My question to you is from your experience, when is the time in a child's life when they
most need support and time from their parents? Am I doing the right thing by working
towards being available when my child/ children are at school or, in your opinion, is it
the baby years when they really need a full time parent?
Libby:
You are an original thinker, Croppy. Most mothers get fixated on being around in the baby
years, and forget how very much a schoolchild needs to talk and be listened to, and what
an elephant-trap awaits you when your parents get old and frail too. So they belt back to
work when the baby goes to nursery, and end up flailing around.
Your way has its points. BUT - make absolutely certain that you are not getting alienated
from your child by your very long hours. Spend lots of weekend time doing things together,
be there for the bedtime story, and DEBRIEF your nanny or childminder about every small
thing that's happening. The years of starting nursery (if any, it's not vital whatever
they say), starting school etc are very important; you have to stay in touch even if you
are a red-hot city worker. But your instincts are not wrong. Just be prepared to trim and
change a bit when you feel it is needed. Basically, I suppose I mean - follow your heart!
Tigermoth:
People say that little boys mature more slowly than girls. Do you agreee with this, and if
so, does this affect how you discipline a 7-year old boy?
Libby:
Boys are often (not always) less susceptible to emotional arguments ("lets not hurt
people's feelings...let's talk about our feelings" etc). But they do like rules and
structures, even if they then try to break them down. They also like reward systems (not
soppy stars, but points towards an outing or a cool toy). In other words, I suppose, they
like it a bit more military and a bit less wordy. They also like to be joked out of their
bad moods and bad behaviour, rather than have heavy moral lectures. Try that....
Viv: I
would value your thoughts on only children, do they lose out by having no siblings? We
have one child aged 3 and I am lucky to be able to work part time whilst my husband works
long hours. We are therefore able to offer a lot more materially and really make the
effort for her to socailise with other children in the area, over and above those she
meets at her day nursery.
We are happy with the situation ourselves except on the odd bad day (me) but I do sometime
worry that she will 'miss out'.
Libby: I'm a
bad person to ask! I was one of four children and longed to have four - or five - or six -
a basketful of puppies all tumbling around together and keeping each other occupied and
cheerful, in spite of the fights. But I only managed two before I couldn't have any more.
So my instincts are towards siblings. However, an only child is fine IF there is lots of
company - but also lots of continuity. It sort of means it'll be harder for you to move
house, move area, change schools etc because friends of the same age will matter even more
than if there were siblings.
The important thing is that human needs are met: parental love, peer group, stimulation,
and a bit of rough and tumble and need to share things!
Lil:
Libby, as a sailor, can you give me your advice on whether it really is possible to go
sailing with a 1 year old toddler. People tell me stories of babies hanging from the boom,
apparently without sea-sickness. What are your experiences, and do you suggest any kit
that we should buy?
Libby:
One year old is the WORST time. Fine with basket-babies, fine once they're curious chatty
toddlers (about 3 upwards). If you go sailing with really little ones you HAVE to make the
days short and work round them; which can rather spoil the cruise for the adults.
However, it can be done. Good kit: get a strong plastic chair and fix it with lanyards to
dedicated cleats, both in the cockpit and below, so that the baby ALWAYS has a safe place
to be put in, padded with a harness, if there's an emergency on deck. Also make sure the
bunk is safe and that the baby can NOT crawl out and explore while you are asleep. And get
lots of those awful stick-on wobbly globes, and put them all over the boat for infant to
bash. We did this and people used to peer in thinking they were state of the art
navigation equipment!
Cl: Sleep
- the eternal problem. Where do you stand on sleep training/ having them in your bed
thing? We do sleep training periodically with our two year old - and it used to work but
recently it just doesn't. She's so strong willed she'll just go on screaming forever.
Sometimes she'll go down fine and sleep through - other times she's up in the night
demanding to be in our bed and the latest debacle is for the past two nights she won't go
down at all - even though she's been going to sleep fine forever. There never seems to be
any rhyme or reason to it. Basically how much do you think parents can impose sleep
discipline and how much just eventually comes naturally - and if they have to impose it
where do they get the energy to do it from?
Libby:
I'm afraid I am in favour of caving in, and having them in the bed if they insist. It
doesn't last long usually, and is often caused by some sudden new fear or worry which
gradually fades away. As an exhausted friend used to say, over the head of her clinging
toddler, "Hell, if cuddles are the answer, at least they're bloody free". Don't
wear yourself out fighting. The good thing about phases is that they pass.
Bells: I
would be interested to hear a little about how your husband has reacted/ coped with your
career as a journalist. Have you tended to split childcare responsibilities 50/50? Have
their ever been times when one of you has had to put your career aspirations second to the
other partner's?
Libby: He
is a journalist too, and TV presenter. Though the farm did interrupt that, for 10 years.
For a long time his career was the most lucrative, and we both benefited from that; when
mine got more lucrative during the farm years etc, we both benefited from that too. We
didnt split exactly 50 50, but he has done his share, and above all he is v. good at
cooking the family supper, which is a huge weight off anyone's mind as just THINKING what
the hell everyone will eat is exhausting...
As for priorities, we work it however we can. There have rarely been clashes, but when
there are, we try and resolve them on a basis of natural justice - being fair, as you
would in any human relationship. Absolutely no gender politics allowed!
Debsb:
Just like to say thanks for 'How Not to be a Perfect Mother'. After avidly reading all the
baby books, and trying to follow every bit of usually contradictory advice, I chucked 'em
all away and became the most not perfect mum I know. We always have a house full of kids
though! (most of them not my own)
Libby:
Good! I envy you. I do not have enough small children around now, so I have a deal whereby
my occasional secretary brings the dread Rosanna to come and storm round my office
tormenting the dog while I dictate. It is a good sign that kids come to your house for
fun. They came to ours quite a lot but I fear it was because we were less strict about
rude words than most of our friends. We were the poo-talk capital of East Suffolk at one
stage. Also we kept a lot of biscuits.
Lauram: I
work part-time (about 2 days a week) from home and have two boys aged 5 and 1. In some
ways I have a perfect arrangement, with live-in help to be there when I need it but I
still worry if I am spending enough time with the children - especially the youngest. Some
parents seem so confident in their belief they are doing parenting well, when I feel full
of doubt. How did you balance things when your children were young, and any tips for
feeling more confident about what I'm doing?
Libby:
Well, I wrote a book about this - how not to be a perfect mother - which I suppose was my
cathartic attempt to convince myself everything was OK really. Basically, if your children
are happy and full of jollity and strong opinions (including the odd tantrum), and if they
hug you and come to you when they fall over and hurt themselves, and are curious about the
world and play with other children and like their live-in help, you are doing pretty damn
well. Relax. Enjoy. In no time they'll be at school and you'll get school-gate
relationships with other mothers, and that helps no end. Hang out with the ones who don't
think they're God's gift...
Amidala:
I have three small boys and work as a freelance writer for a couple of electronics/
hi-tech companies (not a very stimulating field to write about) and I want to change
direction and write for women's magazines, drawing on family life and experiences juggling
kids/ husband/ home and work. Could you give me some advice on where I should start?
Also, does the struggle in having to choose between work or family, when work sometimes
eats into evenings and weekends, get easier as the children get older? The hope that I can
have a 'proper' career when the children are more self-sufficient keeps me going - do you
think this is realistic? You seem to have achieved the best of both worlds - how did you
do it?
Libby:
The best thing is to write something you'd want to read, with perhaps an unusual twist
(like why small children are not unlike electronics systems, I dunno...) and send it to
some magazines that you like, and like to read. Write, write, write - they'll reject,
reject, reject - and finally cave in and you'll be started. Also try your local radio
station.
The struggle does get a bit easier: the most useful gift to cultivate is the gift of not
minding being interrupted, and having quick chats between paragraphs as they wander in and
out. Harder in your specialist field, though; I do see that.
By the way, when I had a boy, a friend with three wrote a card saying "I do love to
hear of other people having boys. I somehow feel the load is being spread..."
Ems: Hi
Libby, what advice do you have for a fun hassle-free summer kids (and adults) party? I
always swear I'll never have another one, one where I don't reach for the alcohol
immediately after (maybe I should be drinking it during!?)
Libby:
Hassle free? Hahahahah! The trick is to have a garden. The other trick is to hire or
bamboozle a pair of cheerful, strong-minded teenage girls for the afternoon. Then get a
giant paddling pool and lots of buckets, floating balls etc and tell them to organize a
game and not drown anybody. If you have a slope, put a long strip of polythene down it and
dribble a hose down from the top so everyone can slide down, shrieking, on a home made
flume. Switch the garden sprinkler on. Buy one of those 4ft diameter giant beach balls and
let everyone punt it about, screaming (put barriers round your favourite flowerbeds. You
can hire crush barriers from event organizers or borrow them from your friendly local
police, with a nod and a wink..).
In other words, ORGANIZE the mayhem. There'll be mayhem anyway, so make sure it's the kind
you organized. Then call a halt to it and summon them all to eat when they're exhausted.
Then and only then...the video.....
sorry...
Sml:
Would you advise your children to go to Oxford University?
Libby: One
of them has tried and failed... but may well try again. The other is thinking about it for
next year. I don't advise them: I get them to look at the course, and the prospectus, and
judge the dons when they meet them; and look at lots of other courses and universities. I
do not think parents should shove 18 year olds around.
I loved Oxford... but that was 30 years ago, and come to think of it I was a bonkers
depressive neurotic, far more than my children ever will be, I hope...
Cath: I
am a stay at home Mum with a 23 month old little boy. He is a joy to be with and I am
enjoying not working. Am I spoiling him by being with him 24/7? Will I encounter problems
when it's time to go to nursery?
Libby:
No...enjoy him...for heaven's sake. And there is never a "time" to go to nursery
until the child is good and ready and happy and confident and loves it. If you're with him
24-7 you're probably less likely to spoil him than a mega-guilty working Mum, because you
know him so well and are tuned in to him.
But do let him play with others; and don't automatically take his side in fights over
toys...
Alyssa: I
live with my boyfriend of 2 years and he has a 6 year old son that I am very close to. We
have little Brian 4 days a week and 2 of those days I have him to myself. I love being
with him but sometimes feel that I am being taken advantage of. His ex-wife will ask if
her son can be watched for her own plans such as getting nails done and my bo is working
at the time so he will ask me to watch his son when I already have plans, and if I say no
he gets mad at me. The recent challenge is she called to tell my bo that she is bidding on
a new shift at work and that she will have to work on Tuesdays and my bo works all day on
tuesday and I am home (I do not work) I know I will eventually be asked to watch him once
this shift change goes through but I feel as if I am being taken advantage of and that I'm
watching little Brian for her and not for my bo. What can I say to not sound like a b---h?
Libby: God,
what a difficult one. The mother is rather taking advantage of you, indeed, but on the
other hand how lovely that she trusts you so much, and that you are so close to Brian.
That I do admire; some women are very silly and selfish about stepchildren.
My own inclination, if you don't have to work and are happy that way, is that you should
relish your times with the little boy, enjoy being with him and just have fun.It wouldnt
hurt though if his mother, and your boyfriend, were willing to fund you to do nice
activities with him, like going swimming...frankly, by the sound of it they should send
you to Disneyland....
Wombat:
Hi Libby, welcome to mumsnet. How do you manage to say what so many of us think?
Libby:
Being verrrry ordinarrrry... I suppose...
I often feel guilty that a lot of what I say is what Basil Fawlty called Glimpses of the
Bleeding Obvious...
Ra: I
believe you have 2 children. Did they ever share a room? My 2 yr old and 20 month year old
are currently sharing a room, which I really like in some respects but they do tend to
wake each other up during the night/ in the early morning. Do you have any advice?
Libby:
Yes, they shared a room at that age - I think it ended when the oldest was about five -
but I liked it when they were together, chuntering away and amusing one another in the
early mornings with no parents to be jealous over. It was great listening through the baby
alarm. My instinct is that it is jollier and less lonely for small children to have
someone else in the room, breathing and snorting.
Young animals like to sleep in company, so do married adults, and I think private rooms
should wait till they are a bit bigger.
Wombat: I
read in your biog that you were educated in Convent Schools in many countries, as I was.
How has this influenced the way you educate your children spiritually? I am in a real
quandary with my three young children, not wanting them to experience the negatives that I
did, not wanting to pass on my own doubts now, but wanting them to have some kind of
spirituality. Any thoughts?
Libby:
It's hard if you had a lot of negatives. It might help to find a church community you are
comfortable with now, and spend some time there; make church a place you all sit quiet
with your thoughts, or even just go to concerts, and listen to the music and let the
spirit rise free. You should work out what you truly believe in - however little it may
seem - and let them know, in casual conversation, what you feel. You could encourage them
to pray, and tell them it can be a private habit; and to appreciate the wonder of small,
natural things in the world.
Jac: My
daughter is a poo talker, every other sentence has the word poo in, nursery rhymes have
POO in! She calls me Mrs Poo Poo Head at the moment. I have been known to say it to her to
raise a laugh if she is in a bit of a mood. Should I be encouraging her, or am I going to
land myself in big trouble when she goes to school in September?
Libby:
Don't worry. It's common enough, and harmless. Just remind her before she goes to school
that silly poo talk is only for inside the family. She probably knows this really. It's
rare for a happy, well adjusted child to shriek poo-words at school.The problem comes when
they hear too many routine swearwords, and start introducing them. Or when the family only
uses adult words, on principle, about bodily functions. Much worse when children shout
"Arse face" or "Dickhead!" at their teacher. Nobody minds poo too
much...
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