Is it even worth discussing what a colossal bellend Farrage is?

(53 Posts)
mcmoonfucker Mon 20-Jan-14 22:10:20
TheDoctrineOf2014 Mon 20-Jan-14 23:03:10

Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is....

But it's still dwarfed by the monstrous hugeness of his bellendity.

hazchem Mon 20-Jan-14 23:19:01

That is one of the funniest things I've read, it's only slightly undermined but the truthfulness of it

lackingideas Tue 21-Jan-14 00:11:47

What I found most depressing its that this wasn't a blunder that he'd backtrack on or apologise for. It appears those were acceptable things to say, and will probably earn him votes or political donations.

AnyFucker Tue 21-Jan-14 00:15:14

let me try to put it into words....

nah

can't be arsed

NigellasDealer Tue 21-Jan-14 00:16:10

no.
like 'bellendity' though grin

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Tue 21-Jan-14 00:19:49

I see him I'm reminded of that blue eagle in the muppets

And the word bawbag grin

BlueSkySunnyDay Tue 21-Jan-14 00:20:07

No - batshit crazy

BelleCurve Tue 21-Jan-14 06:21:55

Trouble is, I reckon the majority of people actually agree with him on this one angry

merrymouse Tue 21-Jan-14 06:39:28

It's really not surprising that some men in the city might find it difficult to work out how to employ a woman, poor loves.

I mean, they've found the whole "employing honest people who won't completely @% things up and who can understand the difference between banking and working in a betting shop" thing quite challenging too.

MomsStiffler Tue 21-Jan-14 09:07:17

I think it'd be naive to think it couldn't be detrimental in some cases. But that's also the case for people that take any time off - due to injury/illness for example.

But if you suggested to a rugby playing city boy that he'd be less employable because he plays, or that people shouldn't go on skiing trips there would be uproar!

MomsStiffler Tue 21-Jan-14 09:09:54

And I don't like the fact that his attitude is "I can't change that" - that's just lazy!!

I think it's refreshing.

On the back of the thread the other day about the partner who doesn't believe in the patriarchy and thinks women have equality, someone stands up and spells out the mindset of the patriarchy and the truth of the situation if judged through a fairly short term business lens.

This is what equality means to a lot of men in senior roles.

I think it is helpful to get it out there and remind everyone what women face.

He doesn't realise that in breaking ranks and saying this he is undoing years of lip service to equality that has hidden the real challenges.

But then he is, as has been mentioned, a colossal bellend.

And I say this having experienced almost the exact scenario he describes. I don't work in the city but I work in a role where your ability to bring income into the firm is reliant on client relationships. When you go on mat leave those clients are shared amongst the team and you 'lose' the contacts. You come back from Mat leave to a standing start, with no one to get business from and no work. Taking 8 months mat leave set my career back 2 years. By the time I have had my second child it will be more like 5 years.

It is dispiriting

hopskipandthump Tue 21-Jan-14 09:32:41

ThinkAboutIt - perhaps there should be a system where clients are 'returned' to you after mat leave? Would that be workable?

To some extent there is, but it's a relationship thing and a knowledge thing. Mid project it is hard to transition. And honestly, the clients that get 'returned' tend to be the tricky ones you don't get much work out of. The fun / big / high value clients - once someone else has that relationship it's hard to grapple it off them. We get bonuses and evaluated on how much we bring in.

flatmum Tue 21-Jan-14 09:41:56

What a cock. I too think it's probably a good thing that he has highlighted the fact that most I the City is still run by dickheads like him who perpetuate female inequality (to protect their own positions). I would have thought he's lost himself a good through female hug achiever votes as well, which can only be a good thing.

flatmum Tue 21-Jan-14 09:42:23

High

What he says is true.

<everyone falls over>

Before you reach for your pitchforks, allow me to elaborate:

What he says is true within the current system whereby a long-hours competitive culture is the norm and individuals can't challenge it because they just get pushed out. Children are seen as women's responsibility and they take months out of the competition when they have them. Men can have children and take no time out of the long-hours 100% commitment or you're a slacker competition.

It sets women up to fail to meet all the expectations that are set, and when inevitably they do, people like Mr. B End point and say see, I told you, women can't compete with men.

…and if course if women try to behave like men are encouraged to, there's a whole convoy of trucks carrying guilt to heap upon these 'working mothers' who neglect their children's emotional wellbeing and raise an ASBO generation. sad

Remind me, why are we still playing by the rules made up by Farage et al?

Lottapianos Tue 21-Jan-14 09:49:42

He is such a Muppet, as is anyone who talks about men and women behaving in different ways for 'biological reasons'. Where does he think the workforce of the future are going to come from if women 'give up on family life'? And absolutely no one is asking the same of men. Agree with other posters that its a good thing that his version of 'equality' has come to light.

Lottapianos Tue 21-Jan-14 09:49:50

He is such a Muppet, as is anyone who talks about men and women behaving in different ways for 'biological reasons'. Where does he think the workforce of the future are going to come from if women 'give up on family life'? And absolutely no one is asking the same of men. Agree with other posters that its a good thing that his version of 'equality' has come to light.

Lottapianos Tue 21-Jan-14 09:50:00

He is such a Muppet, as is anyone who talks about men and women behaving in different ways for 'biological reasons'. Where does he think the workforce of the future are going to come from if women 'give up on family life'? And absolutely no one is asking the same of men. Agree with other posters that its a good thing that his version of 'equality' has come to light.

Lottapianos Tue 21-Jan-14 09:50:47

Oops, sorry! Stupid phone

Remind me, why are we still playing by the rules made up by Farage et al?

Because they have the power. The ability to bestow high earning jobs (and many / most other jobs at least on some level) is in the power of men like this. So we play by their rules.

Sorry to sound defeatist but it highlights what a slow process change is going to be. We have to persuade them to change the rules. We can't just opt to play by a different set.

It would be like saying to the suffragettes - 'ignore their stupid rules, go out and vote anyway'. Or am I missing something?

I get that we can shift mindsets with regards to female guilt though, and eventually we can shift mindsets of those doing the hiring but it's going to be slow. Another generation at least.

WilsonFrickett Tue 21-Jan-14 10:50:59

Weelllll normally I would lose no opportunity to discuss his giant bellendity. But in this case he is speaking the truth - or rather, reflecting the reality of the city. No matter how many diversity teams there are, no matter what their placing on the Sunday Times 'best for families' list, the city is a sexist cesspit and the minute you take mat leave, you are done (in the relationship-type jobs he's describing, you are allowed to come back and do some of the female ghetto jobs in admin, comms and HR. Which is nice for the little ladies.)

So he has done feminism a favour by coming out with it.

OF COURSE that's not why he did it grin But sometimes the fact that this shower of bawbags have a really shit PR machine can be a positive thing, iyswim.

BelleCurve Tue 21-Jan-14 11:03:38

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/women-should-be-banned-2014012182756

PenguinsDontEatKale Tue 21-Jan-14 13:06:55

I do agree with a lot of that Wilson, but he's not just saying that the City is sexist (which it obviously is). He's saying that biology makes the sexism inevitable and there is nothing to be done about it.

He's an under-informed, over-platformed idiot.

I wandered into the kitchen the other day because DH was laughing loudly and talking back to the radio. This is not unknown. But on this occasion Farage had sparked it. this is one of the many reasons that I love DH grin.

scallopsrgreat Tue 21-Jan-14 13:15:06

I think it is more than biology though for him. It is an overarching expectation that women give up having children (although I suspect he hasn't thought the consequences of that through) in order to have a career or forfeit their career when they do. And that expectation involves devolving all responsibility for having children and childcare away from the man. Because as he blatantly says that would suit him. Men maintain privilege.

It always amazes me when a politician shows such a lack of awareness of the political and of privilege and of structural inequality. It is his job to understand these concepts and he can't even get the basics right.

Or maybe he does unerstand all that and he just doesn't give a shit because women, well, they don't really matter.

K8Middleton Tue 21-Jan-14 13:17:11

No, he's not worth the energy. I listened to him on the radio while calmly repeating (as I do with stroppy toddlers) "No, you are wrong. What you are describing is exactly the problem".

With a bit of luck his own ego will swallow him up and that will be that.

ArtetasSwollenAnkle Tue 21-Jan-14 13:19:57

...and for this reason I hope he is given maximum airtime leading up to the next general election. Once he gets outside his comfort zone of keeping all the darkies out, he will get himself into all sorts of trouble. Go Nige!

PenguinsDontEatKale Tue 21-Jan-14 13:27:11

Yes scallops, totally agree.

WilsonFrickett Tue 21-Jan-14 13:49:32

Oh yy, completely agree his own bellendian sexism and ignorance is behind what he says it and that his gender expectations are bloody ridiculous. And the thought of him getting anywhere near power gives me the shivers.
I also wonder what the point is of a politician who thinks nothing can be changed - surely changing stuff is in the job description?

can't stop making words out of bellend

scallopsrgreat Tue 21-Jan-14 13:55:06

Yes I agree Wilson. Except changing stuff for him means maintaining & solidifying white heterosexual dudes at the top of the pile. So anything that can change to make life more uncomfortable and more discriminatory against women, PoC, dissabled, gey/lesbians will be what he aims for.

Blistory Tue 21-Jan-14 19:53:46

He's missing the point - women don't suffer because they have children - they suffer prejudice simply because they MIGHT have children. It just happens to become more obvious once they do actually have children whereas it's more of a hidden prejudice prior to that. It's a much bigger issue that he thinks or than many realise.

The prejudice starts from the moment a woman of child bearing age attends the first interview and carries on every time promotion is considered. It's so ingrained that a lot of employers aren't even aware that they do it. Single, childfree man hoping for a partnership - not a problem. Single childfree woman hoping for a partnership - only after the employer has weighed up the risks of whether you might take time off for maternity leave, you might not come back, you might have more than one lot of maternity leave, you'll only want to work part time, you won't be ambitious anymore - suddenly offering partnership to a woman is a minefield that employers can't navigate.

As for women who don't have children - well, given that it can happen even in a woman's 40s, employers still consider the child free ones risky as well. So he's completely wrong that childfree women do as well as men and sexist again because he's not comparing like for like.

He is comparing a childfree woman to a man, not a childfree man, but any man, because children generally have no impact on a man's career. He's also missing the point that a childfree woman may have had to choose between a career and children, unlike the majority of men.

It's not going to be an easy change, not because of biological reasons, but because it requires an active change by men. Men actually need to do something about this such as taking parental leave and genuinely believing that they should be an equal parent.

Of course it's inconvenient as an employer to have someone take time off but it's a fact of life and the only way to stop women being penalised for it is for employers to realise that men are equally likely to require time off. But as I said, that requires men to actually take the time off, both at birth and for sickness, school plays, etc etc. I have no doubt that it will only be once men starting taking significant time off that there will be any change to the culture of Mon-Fri 9-5 and presenteeism because employers will need to adjust. There's just no incentive to do so until men start asking for change. How thoroughly depressing.

And yy to bellend. And that lets him off lightly.

TheDoctrineOf2014 Tue 21-Jan-14 20:26:42

Pinpoint post, Blistory.

LauraBridges Tue 21-Jan-14 21:03:21

He's rather sexist. I bet in both his marriages he has had a pretty unfair sexist set of arrangements at home.

But let us not say working full time as many of adore to do in work we love is "behaving like men". Plenty of us are more than happy to leave husbands and others to clean the house. Not all women want to be home all the time or for long periods.

TheDoctrineOf2014 Tue 21-Jan-14 21:20:43

I don't think anyone said it was behaving like men, Laura.

I said if women try to behave like men are encouraged to, by which I meant the sort of behaviour that bellendians like to regard as "what it takes to succeed"

I didn't mean any offence to women who relish their careers and also have children. I am one of those women, for a start smile

TheDoctrineOf2014 Wed 22-Jan-14 09:12:18

Was Farage the one who said his wife was more biologically suited to finding the mustard? Or was that another of his bellendious cronies?

Lottapianos Wed 22-Jan-14 10:59:31

'I have no doubt that it will only be once men starting taking significant time off that there will be any change to the culture of Mon-Fri 9-5 and presenteeism because employers will need to adjust. There's just no incentive to do so until men start asking for change. How thoroughly depressing.'

Completely agree with this. And yes it is throughly depressing

Doctrine, that was the delightful Godfrey Bloom. I think he's been kicked out of the party now. No idea why, seems to me like he fits in beautifully!

scallopsrgreat Wed 22-Jan-14 11:47:07

I sometimes wonder whether larry is Farrage. Can't imagine why.

I actually think he is a bit more right than Blistory says. I agree that women suffer prejudice because we MIGHT have children but I think increasingly the challenge is once we have children.

As you look at women graduates they are more than half of GPs, lawyers etc. and it is all too easy to feel like the problem is solved.

The number of women I know who hadn't experienced direct sexism and disadvantage through being a woman UNTIL THEY HAD KIDS is very high. I think his focus on Mat leave is a good one - it is Mat leave that kills careers.

Of my NCT class of 7 only 3 of us have gone back full time. And 2 of us have effectively been edged out of jobs post mat leave - demoted and sidelined until they left.

The total lack of take up of shared paternity / maternity leave shows how far off we are for men doing this. I suggested my DP shared my Mat leave last time and he laughed incredulously. And this is someone who is not sexist - at least not until he considers the hit it would deliver to his career.

scallopsrgreat Wed 22-Jan-14 11:55:37

"The number of women I know who hadn't experienced direct sexism and disadvantage through being a woman UNTIL THEY HAD KIDS is very high." You know I would have been one of these women saying that. I wasn't true. I just didn't recognise the sexism for what it was.

Latent sexism and economic factors aside, for women to work and men to let their careers take a back seat for a while both are going against society's expectations for them. Both must experience the guilt of not providing and not being at home with their children, respectively.

When I compare DH and I, either one of us could have worked or stayed at home when the decision had to be made 10 years ago. Neither one of us really had the option to go part-time, so it was a choice of childcare or one largely SAHP.

It was me who stopped working for a while and I think it was because I would have experienced terrible guilt if I hadn't. Looking back, I am glad I had those experiences, but at the time it made me rather unhappy. I am not suited to small children, having very little patience and a short attention span grin.

Aside from the rambling, my point is that there is also emotional coercion for both men and women to conform to expected roles.

…and when I say 'stopped working for a while' what actually happened was I exchanged an interesting and varied sort of work where I was free to take breaks whenever I wanted for the relentless and backbreaking work of caring for small children smile

Funny how our words betray our conditioning, isn't it. "stopped work" indeed hmm

slug Wed 22-Jan-14 12:07:15

I give you this little gem to while away your day.

Lottapianos Wed 22-Jan-14 12:09:22

'Aside from the rambling, my point is that there is also emotional coercion for both men and women to conform to expected roles'

Very much so

My best mate had a baby 18 months ago. She took her full year's maternity leave because she wanted to. However, when the year was coming to an end, her husband expected her to want to stay at home with baby. She was itching to get back to work and decided to go back 3 days a week. She's a highly specialised NHS clinician, he is a deputy head teacher. It wasn't even up for discussion that he would alter his working hours in any way whatsoever, let alone go part time. And loads of people around them, all of his family for instance, act like her job is some pathetic little pin money time-filler, while he is the one with a 'career'. It's depressing how ingrained all of this stuff is.

flatmum Wed 22-Jan-14 15:01:16

It is depressing you're all right, But can I just say how it is still making me grin everytime I see this thread title come up in my conversations - and loving the adjectives: Belendious, indeed.

LauraBridges Wed 22-Jan-14 15:36:19

Also never marry the sexist men like Lotta mentions. Plenty of us talk these things through before we marry and only want non sexist feminist men - they do exist and have done for decades but you need to choose carefully.

Yeah but often the sexist attitudes only reveal themselves after you've had children. By which time it's too late. So I don't think it's quite fair to blame women who find themselves in this situation, really.

Lottapianos Wed 22-Jan-14 16:51:57

'So I don't think it's quite fair to blame women who find themselves in this situation, really'

In my mate's case, she had doubts about his behaviour and even described him as 'chauvinistic' to me long before they got married but she went ahead anyway confused He is indeed a total plonker and I really don't know what she sees in him. I waver between feeling desperately sorry for her and wanting to give her a good shake!

LauraBridges Fri 24-Jan-14 19:12:47

Yes, but do do due diligence. For example as if he's a feminist. Talk about feminism. Ask if when you have children what he expects - would he stay home with them as a possibility? Would he be happy if you carry on full time work? My oldest got married. The groom's mother has always worked full time as a doctor. I have always worked full time. He will expect women to work full time in good jobs. That definitely helps. Had she married into a family of women who don't work or put careers second to men or who expect women to do more cleaning at home than men then you can see how problems might occur later.

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