So I dropped off dd at the Brownies disco yesterday...

(43 Posts)

...just as the DJ was playing Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines. How, in the name of...anything, is that song even remotely suitable for a children's disco, never mind one run by an organisation which campaigns for an end to sexism?

I know I should have walked right back in and told them what I thought of their music choice, but I didn't. Dd knows there's a song out by some idiot who thinks it's ok to laugh at girls and not listen to them and she's pretty cross about that, but I don't think she knows which song it is. I was already half way down the path when I realised which song they were playing.

Greythorne Thu 12-Dec-13 00:25:41

Fucking appalling.
I would have said something.

FannyFifer Thu 12-Dec-13 00:26:39

"I'm sexy and I know it" at a recent 3 year olds birthday party, nope, not inappropriate at all. shock

AllIWantForChristmaaaasIsEWE Thu 12-Dec-13 00:27:13

I've always found it ironic that Brownies and Guides campaign against sexism yet ...

They don't allow male children to join.

Nor do they allow men to become official Leaders/guiders.

Anyway, a lot of people seem to think this song is just a typical pop song. There's nothing wrong with it etc.

Then other people, mostly the people who have actually listened to the lyrics, realise it's a song about rape.

I assume the Brownie Leaders were just oblivious to the lyrics and played it because it's a popular song.

Maybe have a word with them about it next time you see them? Ask them if they've actually read the lyrics?

It's on the morning radio or playing in shops constantly. There's no hiding from it unfortunately.

Childrenofthestones Thu 12-Dec-13 06:06:28

"I've always found it ironic that Brownies and Guides campaign against sexism yet ...

They don't allow male children to join.

Nor do they allow men to become official Leaders/guiders. "


That's ok because they don't allow women or girls into the scouts either........Oh no wait.

AllIWantForChristmaaaasIsEWE Thu 12-Dec-13 09:30:42

Exactly my point. Hence the irony over them campaigning against sexism.

rutters1 Thu 12-Dec-13 10:15:29

Oh the Irony..the sexist brownies campaigning against sexismgrin

BringBackBod Thu 12-Dec-13 10:31:05

What are the reasons given for boys not being allowed to join Brownies/Guides?
It does seem like double standards.

And yes, the song was inappropriate.

NiceTabard Thu 12-Dec-13 20:29:07

I am surprised that people don't know why rainbows/brownies/guides is female only.

If you google I am sure there are explanations.

Also reading the report on sexism that the organisation just produced might give some clues.

HTH.

And yes of course the song was inappropriate.

NiceTabard Thu 12-Dec-13 20:31:24

the report is here

It was quite widely reported in the media, last week, I'm surprised so many people missed it.

PartyFops Thu 12-Dec-13 20:32:11

Do kids really listen to lyrics? I'm 35 and had heard this song many times, I hadn't really listened to the lyrics and only realised that there was uproar when reading about it on MN.

I'm not saying its right particularly, just that maybe theres less harm than you think.

curlew Thu 12-Dec-13 20:35:42

Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are girl only because there are many girls throughout the world who would not be allowed to join if it was mixed.

Beavers, Cubs and Scouts decided to admit girls largely because numbers of boys wanting to join were diminishing rapidly. Admitting girls has given the movement a new lease of life.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 12-Dec-13 20:39:00

Kids learn lyrics and suing along. They might not understand the concept of rape at that age bit they can still internalise the message of a man ignoring his female target's wishes.

NiceTabard Thu 12-Dec-13 20:48:16

The idea of a bunch of kids - most of whom will be praised with "good girl" - singing "good girl, I know you want it" is simply grim isn't it.

That whole song is grim but unfortunately insanely catchy.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles Thu 12-Dec-13 21:12:02

So, a youth group choosing whom to have as it's membership is bad then? Just for info, not all scouting groups allow girls in them either, maybe we should go after them as well.

The Robin Thicke song is vile. There's no reasonable excuse for playing it at a children's disco.

SledYuleCated Thu 12-Dec-13 21:25:01

As a guider, and as the one who ends up providing music for our parties, I choose the music carefully and would definitely not play Robin Thicke.

The poor girls end up with the questionable selection of suitable music I happen to own grin

Mainkster Fri 13-Dec-13 07:41:41

Having one group for girls and one for boys isn't sexist! How ridiculous.
Pick your battles.
The issue of inappropriate sexualisation of pop songs and their accompanying videos is one to be extremely concerned about. Rihanna , Miley, Brittany all dress, speak and move in a way that creates a horrible sexist image for young people. They do this because it's how they make huge quantities of money and promote themselves so they can continue to make money. It's NOT about them "expressing themself as an artist". There's your issue.

Permanentlyexhausted Sat 14-Dec-13 23:24:00

Is it sexist for girls and young women to be able to attend a club which allows them to spend time in an environment away from pressures to behave in a certain way because boys are present? Actually, I don't care if it is. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that there are substantial benefits for children to be able to do some activities away from members of the opposite sex. I think my son loses far more by having no activities he can do without girls being there (as there are girls in his cub pack) than my daughter does by not having boys at Brownies.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles Sun 15-Dec-13 10:15:51

If parents want their sons to do activities away from girls, there are scout groups which don't allow girls to take part (Baden-Powell Scouts don't) or Boy's Brigade.

There are far more all male spaces waiting for buys when they grow up than all female ones, so for those who are whining about Brownie's being sexist for not allowing boys to join, I hope you're also whining about Gentlemen's Clubs, golf clubs, Freemasons etc etc etc which don't allow women to join them. I mean, fair's fair, isn't it? FWIW, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with any of them, but than again, I don't whine that Girl Guiding is sexist either grin

rutters1 Sun 15-Dec-13 17:15:43

More beautiful irony.

A poster on mumsnet/feminism complaining about others whining..perfect

BarbarianMum Thu 19-Dec-13 14:14:15

<<There are far more all male spaces waiting for buys when they grow up than all female ones>>

Oh well, that's perfectly alright then hmm. And a great comfort to 5 year old boys everywhere (just 13 more years to go, lads).

There are actually very few choices for parents wanting an 'all boys' environment for their sons esp if they are not Christian. That doesn't bother me because I'm no fan of gender segregation by organisation/institution. Far better imo for organisations to offer seperate male/female groups, if they feel that some level of seperation is beneficial (like mixed gender schools who separate for certain ages/subjects).

ChestnutsroastingintheFireligh Thu 19-Dec-13 14:17:53

It was probably requested.

I've only ever heard the Radio Edit on the radio & NOW album so don't know whatvthecfuss is about. Id be more concerned about the lipstick on my passport song whatever that's called.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles Thu 19-Dec-13 15:40:00

No rutters1, just complaining about you whining, there's a huge difference. Sorry you needed that to be explained to you.

Barbarian... as I've said, twice already, but you seemed to ignore, there are scout groups which only admit boys, no girls, so a boys only space, go find one, then you will be happy. If you don't want your sons to go to scouts, then start a boys only youth group of your own.

BarbarianMum Thu 19-Dec-13 15:56:08

?

There are very few 'traditional' scout groups around, probably because most of people (including myself) do not seek gender seperate groups for boys.

As I said, I don't like gender specific organisations, although I am fine with gender specific activities. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I was under the impression that part of the purpose of this site was for debate.

rutters1 Fri 20-Dec-13 11:20:27

@CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles

Show me where I'm whining? You're the only one whining! 'huge difference' lol

'Gentlemen's Clubs, golf clubs, Freemasons' If you want these for your daughters then go out and start them (childish response isn't it?)

If you don't want segregation then it should be the same for both gender obviously.

SinisterSal Fri 20-Dec-13 15:42:43

Rutters , this convo does seem slightly over your head, bless you. Being able to spell 'irony' isn't the same as understanding it. toodle pip.

Regarding one sex activities - there is one area where boys have a massive advantage over girls and that is in team sports. Team sports are wildly more popular among boys than girls, I'm sure there are many thoeries why. Of course that doesn't help the non sporty boys much, but it does go some way to explaining why there are more Girls activities than boys.

I don't have a problem with single sex activities really, when it's just optional hobbies.

GideonKipper Fri 20-Dec-13 16:08:14

Can I just interrupt this heated debate? grin

Someone referred to the radio edit of Blurred Lines? Have the lyrics been cleaned up in this version? MIL has bought Just Dance 2014 for dd for Christmas and it has Blurred Lines on it. I'm wondering if it'll be a child friendly version if such a thing exists (I've never even heard the song but I'm aware of the controversy).

rutters1 Fri 20-Dec-13 18:50:24

I know what arrogance is as well.

How smug you come across, there's nothing in this 'convo' to go over anyone's head. You just trying to make yourself seem intelligent but failed

'toodle pip' fblush ffs

GideonKipper Fri 20-Dec-13 19:17:33

Obviously I can't interrupt then.

wonderstuff Fri 20-Dec-13 19:26:18

I imagine the radio edit will omit the reference to having 'tear your arse in two'? But will still feature 'you're a good girl, you know you want it' which I find pretty grim personally.

OP YANBU, I imagine they hadn't listened to the lyrics.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Fri 20-Dec-13 19:36:23

I don't think 'you're a good girl, you know you want it' is really that much of an issue in a song - most children will think ice cream, presents, 'rewards' if they think anything at all. Most 'popular' music isn't really suitable for children if you actually listen to the words - which, funnily enough, very very few people do.

SinisterSal Fri 20-Dec-13 19:39:42

Rutters

you forgot condescension, patronising and just plain rude - I was going for all of them. cheerio

GideonKipper Fri 20-Dec-13 21:36:54

I had a quick Google of the lyrics - it's not just the charming split your ass in two reference, but also numerous references to a 'bitch in town' or bitches somewhere.

On Just Dance the lyrics come up on the screen so you can sing along, obviously don't want my dds singing along to that. It also contains Sexy And You Know It or something; think I'll be giving it a swerve.

PenguinsDontEatStollen Fri 20-Dec-13 22:08:33

It is a hideous, hideous song and has been played at both discos I've been at recently.

Ok, no tearing the ass in two in the 'clean' version. But plenty of 'you know you want it, but you're a good girl'. And the verse where he gives her pot.

I may hav ranted a wee bit at the other mothers.

ChestnutsroastingintheFireligh Fri 20-Dec-13 22:09:49

What certificate is Just Dance? Dd has a 12 certificate Dance on Broadway that has some mild swearing

The radio edit omits the rap & has no swearing.

PenguinsDontEatStollen Fri 20-Dec-13 22:11:13

Still has the bits I referenced though...

GideonKipper Fri 20-Dec-13 22:36:38

Chestnuts - certificate E10+. My dc are all 9 and under.

blackcats73 Sat 21-Dec-13 07:19:21

I'm not sure that the Scout movement struggles to recruit beavers and cubs, My DS had his name down in 4 different packs and didn't get to go to beavers, only joining cubs when they opened a new pack... perhaps it is Scouts when the boys start to leave.

I now volunteer as a cubs helper. The sort of girls that enjoy cubs would hate brownies. There are also boys who don't fit into cubs and would probably like brownies. I really don't agree with excluding boys from brownies, though have read the rationale.

Regarding the song; It's not appropriate for a children's disco, however if you listened to lots of pop songs, the lyrics wouldn't be appropriate.

drspouse Sat 21-Dec-13 08:00:16

I'm a Brownie leader and, when I'm on the laptop, I'll link to the CBBC Newsround videos of my girls talking about the pressures on girls today. For me, they say the reason why we have a girl only space better than anyone else can. When the world is equal for girls and boys (or just the UK, that would do) I'll happily lead a mixed group. Even in the UK there are girls who wouldn't be allowed to go to a mixed group (though oddly the Scouts now run some parallel single sex groups).

Having said that, and being an incredibly enthusiastic advocate for Guiding, and having promised to be A Sister To All Guides, I have been known to notice that some more old-fashioned Guiders have not really got with the anti-sexism message and/or don't understand the modern world. I know Guiders who want it to be a girly, not a girl-only space, mainly full of glitter, pink and princesses. And many older Guiders will just pick a random CD that's in the charts (or will allow their 14 year old young leader to do it), without any awareness of the lyrics or their implications.

drspouse Sat 21-Dec-13 08:02:23

blackcats you may like to know there are more Guides (all sections) than Scouts (ditto) - even though we only have half the population to recruit from. Both movements suffer from a lack of qualified leaders, hence the waiting lists.

blackcats73 Sat 21-Dec-13 08:57:12

I'd be interested to listen to that drspouse.

There is a chronic lack of leaders for both movements, I was commenting on the view that girls were allowed in Scouting because of lack of interest from boys. I can only comment on cubs and beavers but the waiting lists are huge. Obviously, I don't have a problem with Scouts admitting girls, despite it meaning that my son missed out on attending beavers.

Regarding, girls not being allowed to attend brownies if boys attend,
are some boys from some communities not be allowed to attend cubs due to girls being allowed?

Just musings really. There are more important battles to fight for the equality of women.

AmandaCooper Sun 29-Dec-13 07:52:16

I think you should offer to do the music next time. In an ideal world the leaders would have given it more thought but I've probably made some similar mistakes in the past and not realised, particularly when I was a young inexperienced Guider. You know maybe they need some help; most units do. You could make a valuable contribution if you can spare the time.

LouiseSmith Wed 01-Jan-14 14:06:29

If they brownies hired an external DJ from a company, chances are the leaders didn't get much of a say in the set list. The DJ's are generally left to it, with some requests from children.

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