We've lost anyfucker

(110 Posts)
AnyCuntingFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 22:38:17

This place wont be the same sad

duchesse Wed 23-Oct-13 22:41:01

What? Why?

sad times sad

SatinSandals Wed 23-Oct-13 22:42:07

I seem to have entirely missed it! There are umpteen threads- can anyone explain?

CatherineMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 23-Oct-13 22:43:36

Hi all, we've put a response up to this on this thread.

AnyCuntingFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 22:44:34

I dont know if ita a particular thread but i cant see it, only lots of supportive threads.

Calla. Spade a spade, get banned.
Mra cunts.

Isabeller Wed 23-Oct-13 22:47:22

Hello. I am just an ordinary not especially well informed or consistent feminist.

It may have been because of the recent porn thread on top of many instances of AF confronting posters she vehemently disagreed with.

Unfortunately there is now a bit of polarisation going on and I'm guessing this might get a bit nasty.

I am truly shocked and sad. Might need to take refuge inhere for a while. sad

SigmundFraude Wed 23-Oct-13 22:47:50

Why are you blaming MRAs? What did they do exactly?

AnyCuntingFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 22:49:08

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SigmundFraude Wed 23-Oct-13 22:52:24

confused

PacificFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 22:53:49

I am hoping she'll be back.

FloraFoxForAnyFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:10:29

This site is getting too tolerant of goading and too intolerant of strongly expressed views.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Wed 23-Oct-13 23:12:24

I think hope she'll be back. You can't keep a good fucker down.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Wed 23-Oct-13 23:13:15

But yes - there's a positive infestation of goady fuckers around at the mo.

EdithWeston Wed 23-Oct-13 23:15:25

It's a pity that MNHQ, despite the threads in eg Site Issues, chose to put their response on one in "chat" where it will go pfft.

caramelwaffle Wed 23-Oct-13 23:17:49

Goady troll fuckers.

And handmaiden troll fuckers.

Saddo prats quite frankly.

WhentheRed Wed 23-Oct-13 23:18:09

I don't know the details of why AF was banned.

However, one of the problems I have seen in the FWR threads is that the goaders/trolls seem mostly to come out at night when MNHQ has signed off for the day. That leaves the ordinary posters to have to deal with those people.

I find it very frustrating when a challenging, educational thread is invaded by a goader and yet cannot take it on without fear of being banned. Being unable to confront goaders/trolls directly is a form of silencing. I hate seeing a goader/troll dominate a thread overnight while we ladies have to strive to be polite.

AnySunbathingFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:22:30

Yes indeed, whenthered, MN seems vulnerable at night to the trolls, and spammers too.

EarthMither Wed 23-Oct-13 23:24:00

I totally agree about it being silencing WhentheRed, and what pisses me off is the apparent inconsistency in terms of deletions. There are some really obvious trolling newcomers to MN of late, particularly to FWR and Relationships, and I'm staggered that MNHQ don't appear to be able to distinguish these derailing, gaslighting shits from sorely-tried regulars who understandably lose their rags when confronted with repeated provocation.

Darkesteyes Wed 23-Oct-13 23:24:32

Im late to this too Only just seen this and the thread in Chat. AF is a fabulous poster and has supported so many MNers. sad angry

YoniTime Wed 23-Oct-13 23:24:57

Agree, Red, and Flora. HQ needs to do something about this. The answer isn't to fucking ban the honest, non-goady poster reacting to shit FFS

YoniTime Wed 23-Oct-13 23:26:51

I suggest actually having mods, during the night too.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Wed 23-Oct-13 23:31:14

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Wed 23-Oct-13 23:33:52

How in the name of fuck are people still posting on the chat thread? It has 1021 messages shock

hotfucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:37:34

I posted after it closed because I'd started composing the message before 950 messages- it was moving pretty fast so I reckon there's a bug allowing those messages to still be added to the thread....
I am regularly in awe of the patience and bravery of posters in FWR and Relationships because of all the goady fuckery. I don't post because I don't have the energy/ bravery and couldn't manage to sit on my hands and not get banned. It isn't right and HQ ought to act, but it appears they won't.

YoniTime Wed 23-Oct-13 23:51:41

Perhaps they will be forced to act, of enough people complain.

ZingAnyFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:52:41

Bump

grimbletart Thu 24-Oct-13 00:15:18

hotfucker: it won't allow any more posts now.

But can we start another thread and carry on?

At the moment it's goadyfuckers 1 - MN 0

wordfactory Thu 24-Oct-13 08:50:52

See this is what MNHQ don't seem to get.

MN is a very rare thing; an authentic voice for women. There are very few places where women can say what they think in numbers. But MN is one.

Naturally, the women haters don't like this. It offends their sense of world order.

Since this isn't RL, they can't attack us physically, can't put dog shit through our letter box...so they organise themselves differently, with the same outcome in mind. To silence us.

So they come on MN and post lots of crap, trying to derail every thread and dilute our voices. Lots of very intelligent feminists left MN because of this. MN did nothing to stop the MRAs so they left.

But some woemn refuse to be diluted. Anyfucker was one of them. So the MRAs take a different tack. They goad her and report her ad infinitum. If they can get her kicked off the site then they effectively silence her.

And this is what has happened.

TiggyD Thu 24-Oct-13 08:58:45

They set a trap, she took the bait, they won and she lost.

All the usual internet rules need to apply. Don't respond. Report. Don't feed the trolls.

I also think HQ need to be a bit more 'if in doubt, delete' in here.

AlwaysOneMissing Thu 24-Oct-13 08:58:59

I am gutted about AnyFucker. And I am quickly losing my love of mn as a safe and educational place for women to come.
WordFactory is right - this is the only place where I can get well informed, intelligent conversation among women that is not dominated or in some way controlled by men/patriarchy. But that is now changing.

Please please can someone PM me if these wonderful posters (AF, Dittany et al) have moved to another forum? I want to follow.

Shame on you MNHQ.

DropYourSword Thu 24-Oct-13 09:00:22

MNHQ were justfollowing their rules. She'll be back in a week!

SigmundFraude Thu 24-Oct-13 09:03:03

'So the MRAs take a different tack. They goad her and report her ad infinitum. If they can get her kicked off the site then they effectively silence her.

And this is what has happened.'

No. This isn't what happened. As MNHQ very clearly pointed out.

wordfactory Thu 24-Oct-13 09:03:55

See I don't think MN are just following the rules.

They're essentially dancing to the tune of the MRAs who have decided to infiltrate MN and silence the strong voice of women.

mcmoonfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:05:07

I am still furious about this after sleeping on it.
MN have really let their members down here and their responses are quite frankly pathetic and cowardly.

noddyholder Thu 24-Oct-13 09:06:03

It is a week what is wrong with people? You don't really know him/her?

wordfactory Thu 24-Oct-13 09:12:39

noddy for me it's not really about Anyfucker. I don't go on relationships much, so I don't know her posts, though from the response to her banning it seems many people (including Rebecca from HQ) say they were personally helped by her advice!

It's about the MRAs coming on MN and targeting the voices they deem unacceptable. They then dive into their threads to undermine. And when that won't silence them they goad and report, goad and report.

It's a tactic they're open about. There are MRA websites mentionding AF and other prominent feminist posters by name.

I just don't thinK a site run by women should let itself be played like this!

BOOsterseatforAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:14:02

They're essentially dancing to the tune of the MRAs who have decided to infiltrate MN and silence the strong voice of women.

Yes, this.

You can spread as many damaging, sexist, trollish ideals as you like provided you stay in the guidelines? I've struggled to find my voice at times in a world where I'm told to shut up and look pretty. Posters on this board have bolstered by confidence and I will now challenge and debate for WR issues with a decent level of articulacy and a whole lot of gusto.

Feeding the trolls is one thing but removing a weapon in our arsenal of bollocks fighters is quite another.

noddyholder Thu 24-Oct-13 09:19:35

mra?

I completely agree with wordfactory.

I know what happens, too. It depends whether you get reported a lot. MNHQ are quite open about that - we self-moderate. So if you end up with some petty vindictive twat who reports you a lot, you will be much more likely to get banned than if you happen not to.

I know HQ don't have the resources to do anything about that, but I wish they would do more to control the trolls/goaders. It is really, really shit that HQ very often delete a troll or an MRA that someone like AF spotted and reported. And yet, she still ends up on their rader, because when she sees someone getting upset by the troll/MRA, she isn't comfortable just sitting there and ignoring it.

I really do not think that is ok.

noddyholder Thu 24-Oct-13 09:22:43

I thought AF was a he?

BOOsterseatforAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:24:05

Mens rights activist Noddy

noddyholder Thu 24-Oct-13 09:26:10

thanks smile

wordfactory Thu 24-Oct-13 09:26:36

I don't know if Anyfucker is a man or a woman, but I do know anyfucker is a feminist. And it's that the MRAs don't like!

I am very sure AF is a woman! grin

BOOsterseatforAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:28:18

Perhaps AF is taking out her outrage on the DM comments section grin

meditrina Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:23

"mn as a safe ... place"

This was thrashed out exhaustively.

MN is an open website. It isn't a safe place

If you want to post in a safe place, you need to find somewhere that verifies members and pre-moderates comments. That is not, and never will be, MN.

thestauntonlick Thu 24-Oct-13 09:36:08

Hi, erm I never post on feminism, because I don't really have anything new to say, but could posters somehow co-ordinate together to make sure that the goaders are reported by lots of people? Which would mean that MNHQ would have to listen? Apologies if that's what you're already doing smile

No-where can verify members, though - that's a myth.

MN is as safe as anywhere else. You are just as able to be scammed or conned in real life as on here.

People saying that MN is a safe place to them simply mean (I'm fairly sure) that it's a community where people look out for each other. I don't think they imagine it is magically free of all danger, but no-where is.

thestaun - I think we sort of do, informally. But very often we all seem to get the same 'well, we see what you mean but the poster hasn't yet broken guidelines'. I got that reply when I reported someone who was sneering about rape.

Then later, HQ wake up and realize, oh yes, it's a troll (I use troll interchangeably with MRA, btw).

Youhaventseenme Thu 24-Oct-13 09:39:12

Men's rights activists.

thestauntonlick Thu 24-Oct-13 09:45:32

LRD,maybe they need to change the guidelines then? I can't remember the details, but wasn't there some change to the feminism boards due to.trolls derailing discussions? It clearly hasn't worked. Or they need someone watching particular topics more closely.

humphryscorner Thu 24-Oct-13 09:46:06

In regards to pro AF and anti AF is six of one half a dozen of the other.
Having a different opinion to someone else dosnt mean they are goady.
I've seen AF give good advice but then I've seen unhelpful advice so If I can see it others would have too. When OP had disagreed AF just left the thread she didn't start screaming "goader! "

This is a public forum , nobody has more rights than anybody else to be here. If you can't abide by the rules then you have to leave. That rule is to protect everybody not just PP.

She will be back with in the week , which I'm not sure a new poster would have been afforded but it's clear she has a lot of support and friends on here but also she isn't everybody's cup of tea.

AutumnMadness Thu 24-Oct-13 09:49:01

Jeez, what a morning surprise. I have no idea what happened to AnyFucker, but I always liked her posts and I will really miss her. I do generally think that MNQH do a brilliant job in weeding out the trolls. There are still lots around, but not nearly as many as on many other sites. But breaking of rules by AnyFucker???

AutumnMadness Thu 24-Oct-13 09:50:08

Are the rules applied in a patriarchal fashion? Feminist ethics, anyone?

Maybe they do need to change, thestaun. Or maybe they need more staff? I don't know. And I know they do their best, and it's their website, and there is lots we don't know about because it's behind the scenes.

All I can say is, there's a problem.

I don't remember them doing anything special with the FWR boards, but might have missed it.

I really don't think the issue is AF personally. Don't get me wrong, I think she's wonderful and I'd consider her a personal friend - but this is not basically about 'aw hunz let's keep our mate here!', it's about saying, there is a problem with the website that isn't being sorted.

BranchingOut Thu 24-Oct-13 09:57:57

She is a poster whom I really respect.

When I see her name come up, especially on a relationships thread, I know that what she will say is going to be plain-speaking and powerful, yet compassionate.

BOOsterseatforAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 10:08:41

Some posters appear to be well practiced in the art of being a complete thundercunt but within the guidelines, it depends which camp you are in I guess.

Don't feed the trolls [MNHQ Approved]
or
Give them hell

meditrina Thu 24-Oct-13 10:09:18

There have been other high profile bannings, spawning multiple thousand post threads of protest. And they were nothing to do with FWR.

This may be a misjudgement by MNHQ on this one particular poster. But in terms of banning posters who (according to MNHQ statements in both cases) continued to post in ways MNHQ was not prepared to tolerate after multiple warnings, then I really don't see how this is 'the patriarchy'. If MNHQ have made an individual mistake, then I hope it is corrected. As a system however it has been applied to all sorts of cases.

True, med.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at? Of course there have been high profile bannings. It doesn't however follow that all high profile bannings are the same, does it? After all, AF is not a troll - yet troll bannings end in loads of threads.

So I think that point is irrelevant TBH.

I also don't think anyone is seriously suggesting this is the patriarchy, are they?

The system is broken. It's patently not the same system applied to everyone, is it?

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 10:25:03

Sometimes I cannot help but feel that 'giving the benefit of the doubt' supports trolls and goaders more than genuinely misguided posters.

Unless of course MNHQ is run by MRAs and Justine is just a sock puppet?! shock

wink

Has Justine been seen on all this btw?

EarthMither Thu 24-Oct-13 10:30:16

Justine has made several comments on this thread, Pacific

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 10:34:25

Ah, thank you, Earthmother.

AutumnMadness Thu 24-Oct-13 10:53:10

Thanks, EarthMither. I don't know what AnyFucker said, so I am not in the best place to judge. But MNHQ do seem to be very open about their position and are not ignoring popular concern. I do appreciate that. I am also happy that AnyFucker will be reinstated in a few days.

DoctorTwo Thu 24-Oct-13 11:19:45

See this is what MNHQ don't seem to get.

MN is a very rare thing; an authentic voice for women. There are very few places where women can say what they think in numbers. But MN is one.

Naturally, the women haters don't like this. It offends their sense of world order.

I think you're spot on here wordfactory. Too many threads in feminism get derailed and spoiled, causing many to hide the entire section. Women should feel safe here, but there are too many trolls who aren't being shut down. HQ need to sort this out imo.

EldritchCleavage Thu 24-Oct-13 11:36:10

I really don't think the issue is AF personally. ...this is not basically about 'aw hunz let's keep our mate here!' it's about saying, there is a problem with the website that isn't being sorted.

This exactly. There are worrying trends: the racism threads with lots of goady new posters, the rape myth goaders, the ghouls in Relationships, MRAs generally.

Face it, MN is a massive big target now for attacks of all kinds, because of its increasing prominence as a site. While I sympathise with MN because it must be hard to deal with that practically, if MN simply becomes another place where women, and especially ethnic minority women, get hounded and insulted, what's the point?

sashh Thu 24-Oct-13 11:43:38

It's a pity that MNHQ, despite the threads in eg Site Issues, chose to put their response on one in "chat" where it will go pfft.

And it wasn't really a response was it?

myroomisatip Thu 24-Oct-13 11:53:11

I agree EldritchClevage

There are many threads supporting AF and rightly so but the comments on this thread are really hitting the nail on the head.

MN has become a massive target and HQ really need to sort it out because MN has (apart from lots of other things) provided much needed support to women, and sometimes men, who have had none in real life, me included.

NoComet Thu 24-Oct-13 12:02:58

In general I think one post calling troll should be allowed and everyone who agrees should scowl entry report.

However, night moderation is often crap and it's understandable that people feel forced to reply on thread.

NoComet Thu 24-Oct-13 12:03:55

Silently report (sorry)

spence82 Thu 24-Oct-13 12:13:53

I enjoyed reading her comments she certainly had a way with words. On one of the threads about her it says it was a regular poster she was having issues with and not an mra

HoobleDooble Thu 24-Oct-13 12:47:34

Aw Christ! I've had no wifi for a couple of days and I've come back to this. I love AF and her 'no holds barred' advice and opinions. When I first came on MN I thought "Wooooooooooah, she's harsh", but I've come to realise she's just saying what I'm thinking a lot of the time, trying to encourage people to face the truth.

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 13:03:57

sassh

if MNHQ's response was c&p-ed here, for keepsakes, it would not go poof, wouldn't go poof, would it?

(I can't do it on my phone)

CaptChaos Thu 24-Oct-13 13:04:20

The regular poster has been on the site for a couple of months, has 500 posts and 11 deletions already.

You know, like a lot of PBP's on here hmm

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 13:35:34

Basil said on the thread that CatherineMumsnet linked to:

I've no doubt AF was warned, many times.

But also, she was attacked and goaded many times.

I think you need to weigh it up and not tell us all that we've got to be fucking pacifists in the face of woman-hating pricks who come on here trying to goad us.

And this

"MNHQ's action to deal with the targeted, malevolent pursuit of stand-out, feminist posters is apparently to ban the latter."

Yes. Or to make it so clear to them that they are going to allow the malevolent pursuit of them to continue, that they no longer feel MN is a safe place for them to post.

And that pretty much sums it up for me. Passivity isn't the answer to trolls and goady fuckers. Action is.

I know of several goady posters who have been repeatedly reported, who repeatedly post anti-women remarks (obviously not personal attacks though hmm) and nothing is done about them. I know of several posters who have left because of it.

They can ban posters for being against the ethos of the site, surely? Why are they continuing to allow a platform for posters who do not have women's best interests at heart and deliberately post to that effect? And I am not talking about disagreements here. I am talking patterns. I am talking predatory and quite frankly creepy posts, thinly disguised as concern or 'debate'.

MN intended this to be a forum for women. Surely they want to work to protect women? AF certainly does. She has abused women's backs. Why doesn't MNHQ have her back? To suspend a poster for retaliating against the abuse she receives is siding with the abuser, whether that was their intention or not.

DoctorTwo Thu 24-Oct-13 14:37:52

<applauds scallops loudly> Great post, I agree with every word.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Thu 24-Oct-13 14:53:06

Totally agree with that scallops. They delete threads for not being 'in the spirit' - why not ban the goady mra fuckers for the same reason?

SplitHeadGirl Thu 24-Oct-13 14:59:04

It's incredible the impact AF has had on so many people. I'm so glad she'll be back. She is a powerful voice for women, especially those with no voice.

BOOsterseatforAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 15:03:22

<applauds scallops> excellent post.

FairPhyllis Thu 24-Oct-13 15:30:15

I think the problem is that I don't know to what extent MNHQ ever intended this to truly be a forum for women, in the sense of being a place that supports women and what benefits them. This is how I see it (sorry for long post):

They set up MN as a site for mummies to talk about Bugaboos and baby led weaning and all of that good stuff. I don't know at what point the 'by parents, for parents' tag got added, but because of patriarchy (burden of childcare falling on women) the site was quickly and inevitably dominated by women. They must have foreseen that at least, given the name of the site.

But because women are brilliant, once they realised they had a space of their own they also started talking freely about everything from their relationships, their politics, what was on the telly last night, bumsex, pom bears, MILs to rivers of poo and Friday night property porn. and a few of us who don't have children snuck in under the wire

This meant, as WordFactory puts it, that MN became an authentic voice for women, despite promoting itself as a 'parenting' site. And that means it acquired a certain political clout, and started getting noticed. And it all got a bit feministy, because that's what happens when women get together, and there were even some rather feministy campaigns like 'We Believe You' and an FWR section and stuff.

Then because men (as a class) don't like women having a voice, especially if it's a feminist one, we started getting attacks both systematically targeting the strongest feminist voices on here and attacking the most vulnerable women posters.

This leaves MNHQ at a crossroads. Are they happy with this being a women dominated site as long as we are satisfied with just chatting and don't try to defend ourselves against or complain about misogynist trolls? Or are they going to walk the feminist walk and say, 'this form of trolling is misogyny, this site is run on feminist principles and we won't tolerate this form of abuse against women' and actually work out a way to stop it? How far does their feminism actually go? Does it stop at the occasional campaign or does it reach every part of the way the site is run?

A lot of us post here because we value it as female dominated space, and a lot of us probably think of the site as being broadly feminist (it's certainly feminist at least in the sense of its very existence as female dominated space). BUT - I am not at all sure that MNHQ's perception of the site is the same as ours. I think they are still figuring out how to deal with a beast that they didn't quite intend to create. I think they are figuring out whether they are actually as feminist as the site accidentally became.

EldritchCleavage Thu 24-Oct-13 16:19:27

I think that's bang on, Phyllis. And let's not forget, MN is also a business intended to make money for its owners. I don't criticise that, but I see a lot of posters who see MN as their community overlook that aspect of it entirely.

Leavenheath Thu 24-Oct-13 16:24:44

I've just posted this in Relationships and forgive me for cutting and pasting it on here, because it's relevant to this thread too I think:

There is no doubt in my mind what happened here, especially as I was on the thread that was allegedly the tipping point, according to the E mail sent to AF by MNHQ, which Justine cut, pasted and posted publically last night.

It was IMO a gross error of judgement to pick that thread when the context of it was AF's unstinting support to the OP and a range of posts (not just from one poster) that either mocked or goaded the OP herself, or other posters who were actually listening to the OP and trying to help her work through a difficult and sensitive juncture in her life.

From the picture I've built up of AF though, she's not only a magnificent, kind, strong woman who genuinely cares about people on the other side of the screen who need advice, she's not stupid and I can imagine feels a bit powerless and frustrated by the effect her banning has created.

I reckon she knows all about 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' because we've seen it happen before on Mumsnet. I can imagine she's cringed at some of the (understandable) support because she knows from experience that when it happens, there will always be a backlash from posters who get miffed by one poster receiving admiration, however well-deserved that good reputation is.

So she'd be the last person to endorse any suggestions that this board would crumble without her and if I've judged her correctly, would hope instead that what's happened generates the real discussions that should be happening.

The one about how Mumsnet protects its users from trolls, goaders and personal attacks in all their various guises. It would be a mistake to think those trolls, goaders and attackers are all male misogynists or Men's Rights Activists, as it's a mistake to think that misogynists are always male. The individuals we are talking about are women as well as men.

Then another discussion about the bigger picture of how feminist voices are being silenced online generally and how sites whose brand name is gendered and therefore blatantly invites women users, ought to be at the forefront of a campaign to stop that silencing and yes, hate speech against women.

That's what I believe AF would like to happen and if she returns I hope she'll comment. Until then, I reckon she'd want everyone else to keep helping posters in difficulty, reporting those who aren't in the business of doing that.

myroomisatip Thu 24-Oct-13 16:39:16

Yep. I agree with you there.

I hope that MN can get back on track. It is such a shame that it seems to be attracting posters intent on causing disruption. If only more people would learn to ignore those kind of comments, although I don't blame AF for not lying down and rolling over.

FloraFoxForAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 18:00:49

I agree with both fairphyllis and Leavenheath (and lots of others).

MN is a valuable space for women to discuss all sorts of things on a mainstream forum. Lots of feminist specific forums are quite prescriptive about the type of feminist views that are acceptable on that forum whereas MN is open to all feminists. I roll my eyes when the MRAs come on with the bleat that we only want an echo chamber.

I read the thread AF was banned for and I agree it was entirely the wrong thread. The OP ended up getting chased off her support thread by the very person AF got banned for PA'ing.

MNHQ needs to look at the rules with a bit of perspective.

WhentheRed Thu 24-Oct-13 18:10:05

I only joined MN this year. I rarely venture out of FWR.

In the past I only ever commented on the Guardian website. It became demoralising and depressing that whenever there was an article about DV, prostitution, FGM or any other issue that dealt with an issue that affected women or indeed any article that was focussed on women, the comments board would be drowned immediately by a massive chorus from the men. There was the full gamut of whataboutery, women as prudes who just have to "get over it", and every other derailing and gaslighting tactic. It was silencing. I gave up.

I joined MN because it was a place where the posters were mainly women, who could express their opinions strongly without being piled on by a bunch of men. There are few spaces online where women can gather to discuss feminism. I have learnt much and even where I have had strong disagreements with posters and their positions, I value the opportunity to discuss freely. Many women, including me, have had "lightbulb" moments.

This board is a valuable resource, particularly for women, like me, who cannot get out to consciousness-raising meetings at night. It breaks the isolation and increases connectedness. We should protect it. We should also protect the posters like AF, whose conduct really is in defence of the boards.

The trolls and goaders are increasing in number. There has been one thread already deleted in the past half-hour. There will be more. I have noticed in my short time as a member that there is an increase in that kind of traffic.

I try to limit the amount of reporting I do (free speech and all that) but really this is too important. From now on I will be an active reporter of trolls and goaders.

SatinSandals Thu 24-Oct-13 19:04:20

I think it is an excellent post from FairPhyllis and agree that MNHQ need to work out the purpose of the site.

AnyDozerFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 19:22:02

angry

AnyDozerFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 19:23:04

MNHQ have been pants on this.

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:07:00

I've posted this on the porn thread because I am upset it appears you have been posting about someone, (me?) from the porn thread

sad sad sad sad sad
Sorry I feel totally devastated. I just read that thread from beginning to end. It doesn't name me specifically but it's pretty horrific.

A safe place for women to express an opinion you've got to be fucking kidding me. that's disgusting, I had no idea what you were saying because genuinely I was finding the debate on this thread interesting. I posted at night last night because I have kids during the day.

that's the kind of hypocrisy that gives feminism a bad name. I've reported, but because Mumsnet apparently only moderate at night the attacks on whoever the poor soul was will probably remain

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:08:19

It is exactly why troll hunting shouldn't happen, report a troll fine. But actually you've upset areal person

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 20:14:36

No paper, I think you have misunderstood. This thread wasn't about you. You fall into the camp of genuine poster who holds some views that many of us disagree with on one subject. The goaders and trolls are really different. I think, anyway. you're not, are you?

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:18:47

Only person disagreeing with the majority on the porn thread. It's about as disingenuous as the poster make a shit joke about pearl neacklaces an denying it when it cauused offence.

Whether is was or wasn't about me. But the fact I could read that it was me and be upset by it underlines why tollhunting and posting on a thread about a thread isn't on

wordfactory Thu 24-Oct-13 20:19:14

paper what on earth makes you think anyone is discussing you?

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 20:20:54

Don't be upset paper, it really wasn't about you.

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:21:41

I was the only one posting on the porn thread going against the tide at that time

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:24:42

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones Wed 23-Oct-13 23:31:14

There's a live one on the porn thread....

Goady Fuckers. Down with that sort of thing.

Eh?

What porn thread, paper? There are loads of them.

I'm really sure no-one is talking about you.

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:29:45

maybe your right. but it sure has taken the wind out of my sails and really upset me. really highlights why the troll hunting rules and don't about another thread about a thread are in place

EarthMither Thu 24-Oct-13 20:32:38

Paperlantern, with all due respect this thread is about a much bigger problem than one individual and their hurt feelings.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 24-Oct-13 20:32:47

See my post on the porn thread - I did indeed jump (wrongly) to the conclusion that you were an MRA goader and report on that basis. I now accept that I was wrong in making that assumption. However, I don't apologise for a moment for thinking the views you have espoused on that thread are utterly indefensible.

Erm ... if you didn't want to make a thread about a thread you should stop doing it!

I'm sorry you're upset but actually, I find it pretty upsetting you've decided to come on here, on a thread about a poster who cannot defend herself, to complain because no-one agreed with you.

I've not even see the thread but your attitude is pretty out of line.

DebrisSlide Thu 24-Oct-13 20:39:53

Brilliant post, FairPhyllis.

I do think MNHQ have decided on their brand of feminism, largely. And I understand, from a commercial pov, why it's more of a not scaring the horses and empowerfulising women ilk.

EarthMither Thu 24-Oct-13 20:40:13

Indeed LRD - a cynical person might even say that hurt feefees are a tried and tested method of derailing.

Well, I may be a cynic - I just think it is extremely rude to simultaneously complain about threads-about-threads when you're incorrect, and to start a covert attack on someone who can't defend themselves.

Yougotbale Thu 24-Oct-13 20:46:26

Will anyfucker be back? She was always the funniest poster by far. I liked her style

paperlantern Thu 24-Oct-13 20:49:54

No I was just giving both places the right of reply, and being open in my response

Not complaining that no one agreed with me in the slightest.

LRD tbh I have no idea whether you are correct and it wasn't about me or I am.

You were however discussing Mumsnet HQ's approach to troll hunting. not entirely sure how pointing out that troll hunting can genuinely upset a real poster is off topic regardless of the reason.

troll hunting is not pemitted. neither are personal attacks. as Lucio did you are welcome to report either (or both) me or my both if you feel either applies to what I said

No, you weren't. Unless you're outing yourself as Justine MN, you can't give AF right to reply.

This thread is not about you being sore that you got disagreed with. It's about AF. It's really unpleasant to derail it with a grudge.

FairPhyllis Thu 24-Oct-13 21:46:44

She will be back Yougotbale (well if she chooses to come back). She has been suspended for a week.

paper I haven't seen the thread you are talking about, and this thread is really, really not about you.

I think Eldritch's reminder about it ultimately being a commercial site is an excellent one to have in mind (I often lose sight of it), and part of why I fear Debris may be right and that MN's brand of feminism may only be of the variety that doesn't scare the advertisers horses. It's a pity because I thought that the site was edging towards something really good by not tolerating the posting of rape myths etc.

The naming of the misogyny of the goady ones by MNHQ would be a truly radical act - but it's not a fight they signed up for. And judging by their treatment of the rad fems on here, it's not one they are likely to leap into wholeheartedly. I guess even if they only do the bare minimum they need to to control the trolls the site will still have value as a female dominated site - but I will be quite disappointed because I think this could be a real opportunity to make this a really woman positive general site, as opposed to one that is centred on feminist politics.

When you look at how the wider public perceives MN it is usually 'OMG mums talk about sex' or 'Oh yes that site wot is full of feminist harridans.' MNHQ might as well become full-on feminist harridans by clamping down on goaders because that is how they are largely perceived anyway, the site would be a nicer place for it, and it wouldn't drive away the majority of posters, if any.

Darkesteyes Thu 24-Oct-13 21:54:55

When the Red i know EXACTLY what you mean about the Guardian comments board I got targeted on there in the summer of last year by a certain poster (i even remember his username) basically he was slut shaming me. There was a lovely poster on there who stuck up for me though. I remember her user name too. smile

YoniTime Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:53
Loopytiles Fri 25-Oct-13 16:39:10

The MNHQ post and the thread don't address the points raised here.

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