Lapdancing and telling off dh's mate.

(366 Posts)
Manchesterhistorygirl Wed 02-Oct-13 17:41:54

I blame you lot. Thanks.

Last night dh's friend was telling him all about his recent visit to a lap dancing bar. I told him he and his mates were a bunch of twats and I was disgusted at them all, especially since they all have partners.

I also told dh if I ever found out he'd done the same it'd be the absolute last thing he ever did.

So my nest of vipers, thank you for giving me the confidence to handle a situation I've always found disgusting, but wouldn't have ever spoken out about until I joined here.

EarthMither Wed 02-Oct-13 17:42:56

Excellent work Manchesterhistorygirl - well done smile

BasilBabyEater Wed 02-Oct-13 21:52:35


Go you!

WoTmania Wed 02-Oct-13 22:08:44

Brilliant smile

JessInAvalon Thu 03-Oct-13 07:08:41

Excellent! I think one of the problems is that these places have become so normalised that when men do go a lot of women don't feel able to speak up. I know I didn't when it happened to me as all the other wives/gf's were just telling me to deal with it. It would not be ok for a man to get a woman round to the house to give him a lap dance on a Saturday night but somehow it's ok in a club for a tenner on the high street!

ArmyDad Thu 03-Oct-13 09:29:29

Oh well done you. "Telling off" your DPs mate. Maybe there is some other aspects of their lives you could "correct" him on too.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 09:49:41

ArmyDad what other misogynistic behaviour do you think her DH's friend might exhibit?

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 10:18:29

ArmyDad is right you know.

You should simply stay silent, dear, and perhaps make some sandwiches.
Men understand these things, and if you find yourself getting irrational about some manly joshing about you should just remember that it's not your place to stand up for your poorly understood principles. It's not very pleasant for the poor chaps for someone to find fault with their behaviour.

Be a lady, my dear.

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 10:23:55

Yes when men rub your nose in your inferior status, STFU and make them a sandwich.

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 11:11:58

Its good you are sticking to your principles but unless you were asked for an opinion I would have kept stumm. I hope u didn't tell your DH off in front of his friends. That would be awful and embarrassing, for both of you.

If your purpose was to educate why it is mysogenistic to visit these places, you probably came over all ranty and unreasonable. You will probably be the subject of derision and it doesn't do anyone any good. I would apologise for your behaviour next time you see him and explain why you don't like these clubs in a well informed manner.

I am ambivalent re lap dancing, but as long as everyone is consenting, including your friends partners, then all is ok in my book.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 11:19:36

it's easy for you to say Keep Stum if you have no objection, Zippey

but would you feel the same if it was an issue that you felt strongly was harmful? Racism, and homophobia or the environment, whatever?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 11:21:34

Its good you are sticking to your principles but unless you were asked for an opinion I would have kept stumm.

Yes!! Women, know your place. Do not talk about things that don't concern you. And don't be ranty and unreasonable. Or shrill. Definitely don't be shrill. Or hysterical either. hmm

Well done, OP. Women don't have to STFU about these things.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 11:28:49

You threatened to kill him? That sounds abusive

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 11:33:16


Hello, you make an interesting point. If it was about an issue I cared about such as sexism/racism/homophobia, I probably would not have been able to have kept quiet. Then again, I probably wouldn't have called them vile and disgusting. I'd probably try and engage why they thought those things, and try and put over a reasoned argument on why their views were wrong.

I think this was the OPs downfall. Not her views but the way she closed the argument by being nasty to her DHs friend. Not everyone shares her views and who is to say either is right in their views?

fleacircus Thu 03-Oct-13 11:37:37

Zippey, I thought you must be joking. But how is this not about sexism?

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 11:39:24


I would say this isn't a female/male issue. It's about acknowledging that people have a difference of opinions, likes and dislikes, and activities, and behaving appropriately when debating those differences.

The OP just comes across as a bit controlling.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 11:42:07

well zippey
AHEM I'll tell you who is right! wink

You make a good point too about the way the views are expressed - yet when you are passionate it's easy to go on a bit. Still, OP could argue that their actions are causing harm at a level greater than being strongly disagreed with by a friends' wife, so they should be able to take it.
I still maintain she was right to say what she thinks without sugarcoating it - the conversation was going on there around her, it's a bit 'be a good little lady' to expect her to just sit in silence.
You wouldn't expect a black person to sit all decorous and mannerly if they were joking about perpetuating racism.

Yougotbale wow what an insight. of course you are right that's it exactly.

No one tells me what to say - in my house I'd have done the same

If out and couldn't be arsed I'd have left

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 11:45:29

I would say that discussing lapdancing clubs is absolutely a female/male thing.

Your post basically said 'you just have to put up with it, as your opinion wasn't asked.' Why should she have to be quiet until her opinion is asked?? Do the men wait to be asked for their opinion?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 11:48:57

Review - lol. It was a joke. I think it's right for the OP to speak up and give an opinion. As it is for the husbands mate.

The OP sounds threatening and controlling. I would do a runner

MomentForLife Thu 03-Oct-13 11:54:29

Good for you OP. I would be pissed off if my DP was visiting these places and I'd tell his mates they were twats too. Don't care if that's controlling.

Private dances don't cost that much, and who'd be happy with their partner having a fully naked girl gyrating around them?

Faux Thu 03-Oct-13 11:58:40

I would have told them I considered them vile and disgusting too. Good on you OP.

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 12:04:06

I don't see how a person going to a lap dancing club is sexist. The recent debate on here about women sitting at the back of classrooms in an Islamic school is sexist because they are treating women differently to men. I don't see how women are being discriminated against. Maybe you can enlighten me.

To me its just business, albeit a less than savory one. If a woman chooses to do it and a man chooses to pay, or vice versa, who am I to decide who is right or wrong.

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 12:11:04

I hope that made sense. I think one is sexist, the other isn't. My opinion only of course. Anyway the debate has moved on and I'm out for just now.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 12:13:34

Zippy lap dancers are females, paid to display their bodies provocatively for men. They are being treated as sex objects by the men that pay for their services. They are also given very poor terms of employment by the clubs.

That's why it's sexist.

And men visiting these clubs help perpetuate the culture that sees no issue in the proliferation of women's bodies being packaged and sold for male titillation, thus creating a significant barrier to equality. Also people are saying that women shouldn't express their opinions on the matter, or that they should only do so if asked or in certain polite and diffident ways.

That's misogynistic.

And yes, before you say it, I know that there are male strippers. There are significantly fewer and the circumstances under which they perform are very different.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 12:14:22

Zippey sorry.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 12:15:50

It's sexist because the 'business' is based on half-dressed women gyrating for men's titillation.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 12:22:59

Women do get lapdances too, but not too many

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 12:35:47

...and not in a culture where men are regularly presented as having no value other than as sexual playthings.

MomentForLife Thu 03-Oct-13 12:42:29

I don't think lapdancing clubs are going anywhere, and a lot of women say they like doing it, they're using men for money etc. My personal feeling is it's degrading but that's me.

My issue is that if you have a partner, you're degrading them aswel. As if they're not enough. It's all just a bit of fun and their feelings aren't important because you want to see some boobs

YoniTime Thu 03-Oct-13 12:49:30

Isn't this amazing, btw? It should be the standard of every country.

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 13:30:54

Good god, I am controlling and abusive for making it 100% clear that I do not approve, condone! tolerate or expect this type of behaviour, especially not when the discussion is taking place in my house. Your damn right I'd be furious with dh if he ever went to one of these places. I'm furious with dh's mate because he is my children's godfather and I am disgusted with this behaviour, even more so when he was bragging about it. He's in his 40's so in no way can he blame peer pressure.

If your partners (you apologist women) went out and a random woman was pushing her boobs and bum in their face and they went along with it, would you be happy with it or would you be posting on relationships?

I do not agree with exploitation in any guise and I am frankly astonished that so many on this thread think I am controlling and abusive because of that. As the mother of boys it is important that they see women as their equals, not as some form of paid for titillation.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 13:36:57

<punches fist in air in gesture of feminist solidarity>

libertarianj Thu 03-Oct-13 13:42:04

Zippy Buffy likes to makes assumptions about how everybody thinks, to fit her agenda. she also ignores the numerous dancers who have spoke out in support of their jobs too.

And yes, before you say it, I know that there are male strippers. There are significantly fewer and the circumstances under which they perform are very different.

how exactly exactly are their circumstances different? Most male strippers go mobile and there certainly aren't any things like no touching rules or cctv.

and OP I think you are out of order for challenging your husbands friends like that, regardless of what the issue was. You should have spoke to your husband about it later, and told him you didn't approve of his friends comments/ views, rather than embarrass him like that. How would you feel if your husband spoke to your friends like that? Ever heard of being tactful?

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 13:42:26


you again.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 13:45:04

Hello lib. Lib likes to place his own interpretation upon the words people use, has no compunction about stating as fact his (erroneous as it happens) assumptions about the thought processes of other posters and consistently demands scientific evidence without recognising that for many people a popular obsession with scientism is in fact a tool of oppression.

This is a bit like writing a dating profile for a friend, except for online discussion fora grin

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 13:45:26

Like I said he was sat on the sofa in my house, bragging about his exploits at a lap dancing club. Quite frankly I couldn't give a monkeys if he felt embarrassed, so he should, but obviously I shall keep my opinions to myself in future and just smile and nod at the men folk and their funny ways.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 13:46:24

that's the ticket my girl. Know your place

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 13:49:37

OK, so let's look at some evidence. because Buffy needs a break from serious writing right now

lap dancers are females, paid to display their bodies provocatively for men. They are being treated as sex objects by the men that pay for their services. They are also given very poor terms of employment by the clubs.

And men visiting these clubs help perpetuate the culture that sees no issue in the proliferation of women's bodies being packaged and sold for male titillation, thus creating a significant barrier to equality. Also people are saying that women shouldn't express their opinions on the matter, or that they should only do so if asked or in certain polite and diffident ways.

Well, I find no evidence of any statements about the thought processes of individuals there, just observations about behaviour and culture.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 13:55:34

Buffy - that's not true

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 13:56:47

Do explain, yougotbale

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 13:57:43

Or you know what.... I've lost interest

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 13:58:02

OP I think you are out of order for challenging your husbands friends like that, regardless of what the issue was. You should have spoke to your husband about it later, and told him you didn't approve of his friends comments/ views, rather than embarrass him like that. How would you feel if your husband spoke to your friends like that? Ever heard of being tactful?

Doesn't that just say it all?

Women! Don't you dare speak out of place whilst in the presence of your husband and his friends. If you must say something, wait till later when you won't embarrass him or yourself. FFS.

Women! Know your place

Lib. She is an equal to her husband and can say what she fucking likes to who she fucking likes. She's not a subordinate to him.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:01:38

Lapdancers are normally women. That display that dance for both men and women. I know women that go to these places e.g. My gay friend went for her hen party, rihanna goes.

People don't think the OP shouldn't speak up. She shouldn't try and control her husband by threatening to kill him if he does something she doesn't like.

Do you know how clubs in the uk are owned by women?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 14:02:17

Oh, sorry everyone. Did I want women to be treated as equals for a second there? Silly me!

Here's some fluffy kittens for all the women here.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:02:29

What ain't true bale?

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:03:29

Those kittens are indeed cute. I feel strangely calmed.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:04:07

Your last post

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 14:05:08

It's not just "something I don't like" bale, it's as good as cheating in my view. You're just paying for instead. I know he'd feel exactly the same if the situation were reversed.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 14:05:43

who cares whether women do it too?

that's classic derailing and it betrays the limited stupidly wrong view of feminism that anti feminists always have. It's not that we hate men so whatever they do it's wrong. That's arse about tit (pardon the pun)

The issue is some practises cause harm to women and if you indulge in them you are wrong and should expect to be told so when you boast about it.

it is simple

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:06:22

That I just made observations about individual behaviour and how it contributes to culture? Or that the kittens are cute grin

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:07:29

He might but would it be the last thing you did? Why not express your view and let him decide. If he cares about you he won't go. Do you use this technique in other areas of life. He must be a nervous wreck.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 14:07:47

You're a woman buffy aren't you? You can only have an opinion on the kittens, then. Just the kittens.

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:09:29

How would you feel if your husband had a go at your friends if they were talking about a male strip show?? I would be bloody livid! So I wouldn't do it to him in return!! I bet your DH was really embarrassed!shock

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:09:40

Can you detect my shrill hysteria and flawed reasoning Sab

<wanders off exhorting self to just focus on the kittens>

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:09:40

Buffy - I suppose you can make selective observations to support an outcome.
Sorry, I thought you were analysing as a whole

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:11:45

Twiddlebum if a friend of mine was boasting about having been to see a modern version of the black and white minstrel show, or talking about how much he enjoyed a homophobic comedian, then I wouldn't be embarrassed by my DH expressing his own views on the subject.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 03-Oct-13 14:12:01

Good on you for calling him on it OP. However I wish you would have told your DH that you would be gone rather than implying he would be murdered. I know that partner-murder is usually committed by men, but making it unacceptable to joke about men killing women really requires women to stop joking about killing men.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 14:13:24

I can detect something even worse than shrill, buffy.....we're talking about a man who has been embarrassed by his wife here! This is SERIOUS.

<goes back to cute kittens>

morethanpotatoprints Thu 03-Oct-13 14:13:33

Whats wrong with them going, if their partners are fine about it?
I'm glad my dh doesn't want to go to these places, of course I am. However, I think if you have to threaten them not to go you've lost really. If a man is going to go he will threat or not, you just might never find out grin

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:14:02

bale are we getting into an epistemological debate here? We can do so if you like, but it isn't in the spirit of the thread. I was hoping to show lib that I wasn't making any claims as to the thought processes of individuals, merely to observations of their behaviour and the ensuing perpetuation of culture that packages women's bodies up as sexual commodities for sale.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:15:13

Whats wrong with them going, if their partners are fine about it? see above re: a culture that packages women's bodies for sale.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 14:16:31

How would you feel if your husband had a go at your friends if they were talking about a male strip show??

I wouldn't give a toss - he's free to voice an opinion to my friends confused

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:18:18

I suppose. 'Ladyboy' clubs are more popular than men's strip clubs. Do you think a change from patriarchy would see a boom in male dancer clubs?

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 14:22:56

A man has been embarrassed in front of his mates because his wife has an opinion? hmm
If my DP had been embarrassed every time I had an opinion he'd be a shrivelled wreck by now.

If my pals were bragging about going to a male strip club I would be embarrassed.
And if DP had an opinion (which he often does) I would expect him to voice it, why shouldn't he?

<<punches kittens>>

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:34:31

I'm leaving as I fear i might get pelted by burning bras or something!! grin seriously guys life is too short!!! Try enjoying it a bit more and chill out!

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 03-Oct-13 14:37:29

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:39:20

Are you saying women have fat arses or can't use doors?

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:42:06

seriously guys life is too short!!! Try enjoying it a bit more

What do we do if we enjoy feminist analysis and challenging sexism <conflicted>

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:43:14

Haha!!! One thing I like is you guys can't stand people having an opinion without getting your knickers in a twist when the thing you're arguing about is being allowed to have an opinion!!! smile

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 14:44:25

Pelted by burning bras?

Do you mean 'pelted with burning bras?

Either way, OP is allowed to state her point of view you know, life is certainly too short to stfu about things you don't agree with.

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:44:26

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun though tbh!

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:45:38

Sorry, am I supposed to get my grammar book out now??? So people that aren't good at English are looked down on by you??

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:46:02

Not in the least, my knickers are entirely twist free. What I find frustrating though is that when people express their opinion and find it's different to a feminist's opinion, they get all huffy and insulted and try and blame feminists for being boring, prudish and narrow-minded smile

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:46:29

Every time I give an opinion I will start a thread about it.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 14:47:23


BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:47:39

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun though tbh!

Not in the least Twiddle I revel in debates such as these. Trust me, I am enjoying both this exchange of views and the fact that Manchester totally rocks in refusing to STFU both here and online.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:50:37

Shall we continue the debate down the strip club? I'll get the first round

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:50:44

Every time I give an opinion I will start a thread about it.

Off you go then. If it interests me, I will post on it.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:52:18

Buffy - she didn't refuse to shut up, she just gave an opinion in her own home. Her default position isn't shutting the fuck up.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 14:55:30

Indeed she did. Funny how many people, even from the small numbers that have engaged with this thread, said that she should have waited until later, been more tactful or even was abusive and controlling, for expressing her opinion.

Ergo she would have been better to have shut up about her DH's friend visiting a lapdancing club.

comingalongnicely Thu 03-Oct-13 14:57:31

It's not what you said, it's possibly the way you said it.

What's going to make him think about his actions more?

A bit of a chat, some adult discussion & some pointers to get him thinking


"some stupid cow swearing & banging on at me" (Which is what he'll be saying to all & sundry).

I don't think you're wrong to express your opinion, I just don't think you did it in the most effective way if you expected to make a difference....

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 14:58:10

Buffy - not controlling because she gave an opinion. Controlling and abusive for threatening death. Even if it was a joke DV isn't that funny.

Keepithidden Thu 03-Oct-13 14:58:23

Sorry to be a bit of a dunce here, but if an equal society existed would the presence of lapdancing clubs of both kinds still be an issue? I find them distatseful and see why people view them as akin to an affair, but I can also see why some people don't take that viewpoint and see them as another kind of entertainment.

Assuming the market is there and the participants aren't coerced is there anything intrinsically wrong with these establishments (from a feminist perspective) or is it simply because they purr*petuate the male-centric path society seems to be heading increasingly down?

* Had to get kiittens in there somewhere!

Twiddlebum Thu 03-Oct-13 14:59:01

Yougotbale..... I'll see you down the club! grinwine

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:02:12

Assuming the market is there and the participants aren't coerced is there anything intrinsically wrong with these establishments (from a feminist perspective) or is it simply because they purr*petuate the male-centric path society seems to be heading increasingly down?

I suppose in an equal society people could have lap dancing clubs and they'd just be a bit of harmless fun. I don't know, because I've never lived in an equal society. Feminists, of which I can only speak for myself, naturally, seem to disagree with them because they are yet another brick in the wall of women's position in society as sexual objects to be sold. Yes, even if they have chosen that path freely, I am talking about culture not individualism.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:05:48

Can anyone be bothered to engage with this disingenuous criticism of common figures of speech? I can't work out whether the concern is genuine or goady.

Keepithidden Thu 03-Oct-13 15:05:58

Fair enough, thanks for one feminist's opinion Buffy!

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:06:47

Always more than happy to supply those, Keepit grin

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 15:10:20

I haven't read anywhere the OP threatening to kill her DP, she made an off the cuff remark about it being the last thing he'd do.

Like you said, figure of speech, I read it being picked up on as goady.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:12:06

Are you goading us bale? I'd like to know before I launch into an earnest explanation of why it's not the same as men making rape jokes.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 03-Oct-13 15:16:55

comingalong - in my experience, the sort of man who is enough of a saddo to go to lapdancing clubs will interpret "A bit of a chat, some adult discussion & some pointers to get him thinking" as "some stupid cow swearing & banging on at me" in any case, so you might as well have the catharsis of a bit of swearing (specially if they had the cheek to express these opinions in your own house).

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:17:34

Buffy - I didn't say it was the same as a rape joke. It's a joke about killing her partner. It's not the way to make a point IMO

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:19:44

Do you think DV and rape jokes are funny? Or one more so than the other?

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:21:26

What's unbelievable is your continued disingenuous (or is it just a lack of awareness of this debate?) reference to this.

Of course I don't think DV and rape jokes are funny, that's a ridiculous conclusion. But I rather suspect you know that.

Rowlers Thu 03-Oct-13 15:24:36

My DP would expect nothing less of me, had I cause to tell his mate he was being a dick for going to a strip club.
In fact, he'd be perplexed if I didn't.
It's a no-brainer.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:25:32

Buffy - you assumed that my opinion on the OP's joke make me disingenuous. You might be ok with flippant remarks of this nature. I'm not.

If you'd like to tell me the difference between a DV joke and a rape joke, I'm all ears (eyes)

BelleDameSansMerci Thu 03-Oct-13 15:26:27


Goading, definitely goading.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:28:53

What's more goading than writing 'goading'?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:29:51

Belle- Buffy offered to explain, I'm interested?

Thecatisatwat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:30:02

I remember an old schoolfriend of Dh coming round a few years back and telling us about a fab holiday he'd had in Thailand and how cheap and good the prostitutes in Bangkok were. I said something along the lines of 'OMG how crap are you in bed if you have to pay a stranger for sex, that is so sad, I'm sure there is help out there for people with such problems etc.' He went quiet after that and hasn't been round since although he very occasionally emails Dh (although I am strangely never mentioned).

So well done for standing up for your beliefs OP, we all do it in different ways although I find the combination of sarcasm and sympathy particularly effective.

Thecatisatwat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:31:38

Although if the person concerned is as thick as pigshit it doesn't always work!

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 15:31:55

I will explain my views on this, but not right now because dc are coming in from school and something tells me I will need to word my explanation very vary carefully indeed. I will say quickly that I do not think rape jokes or DV jokes are funny in the least.

BelleDameSansMerci Thu 03-Oct-13 15:34:22

I can't speak for Buffy (although others seem to believe they can) but there appears to be a level of deliberate misunderstanding which I construed as goading.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:37:40

Buffy - ok. Using the thread as the example:

1. If you don't do as I want. It'll be the last thing you do. (I'll murder you).

2. If you don't do as I want. I'll get a man to come and rape you.

I find both very offensive and equally dangerous and controlling. Even if they are said as jokes. I'm interested in your views on these.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:43:41

Belle - that's cool. You misunderstood me. No probs.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 15:43:41

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding the first sentence YouGotBale.
It is a commonly used figure of speech, maybe she meant it would be the last thing he'd do while they remained together, maybe the OP would see it as a deal breaker.
The second sentence doesn't seem to have any relevance to this thread ( to me anyway) and is certainly a much nastier thing to say.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 03-Oct-13 15:43:52

I'm with you YouGot. Telling the friend he's a tosser is fine, saying you won't stay with a partner who goes to a strip club also fine, but joking about murdering your partner is never fine.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 03-Oct-13 15:45:19

X-ray post it is a commonly used figure if speech, but its one which minimises dv.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 03-Oct-13 15:45:45

Ffs. X-post

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:46:13

Reeling - I interpreted it as meaning you won't do anything again. Death. So trying to control someone through threatening them.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:51:15

Oh FFS. Manchester has threatened to kill anyone. And nor does she want to kill her DH.

People are being deliberately disingenuous here and deliberately derailing.

I do notice how a woman expresses an opinion and observation on someone's behaviour (together with a common figure of speech) and gets called controlling and abusive. A man comes on here and suggests how she should have behaved and that doesn't get picked up at all by the same goady brigade.

As an aside I personally took it as it would be the last thing he did in the context of their marriage i.e. it was a boundary she was setting (but no doubt setting boundaries is controlling and abusive too. After all it wouldn't do for women to actually state what they are happy/unhappy with). But hey ho.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 15:51:57

I didn't, I read it as something lots of people say when they are irritated and annoyed.
Lots of people say 'i'd murder him/her if she/he did ''whatever'' '

Doesn't mean they're going to do it. It is a figure of speech.

I have never heard anyone say they're going to get a man to come and rape you if you don't do what they want.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:52:20

That should say Manchester hasn't, obviously!

Thecatisatwat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:52:39

See I find 2) more threatening because 1) I associate with (perhaps) a mum shouting without thinking at a teenage daughter who is threatening to get her boyfriend's name tatooed across her arse whereas 2) seems to be a calculated attempt to scare me as a woman.

2) is very specific. 1) could be the last thing you do ..... before we get divorced, before you move into the spare room, anything really, it's that non-specific.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 15:53:45

Yes me too thecatisatwat

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 15:54:09

Well exactly, Scallops and TheCat.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 15:56:03

<<yawn>> maybe the OP would like to tell us if she really means to kill her DP if he ever goes to a lap dancing club.

Bloody nonsense.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 15:58:21

I'd disagree but that's just my opinion. I would say its abusive, again my opinion.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 16:06:02

It's a figure of speech - to try and make out that in this context it's threatening or abusive is ridiculous.

It's like the "AIBU to kill dh for eating my Terry's chocolate orange" debacle all over again. hmm

ArmyDad Thu 03-Oct-13 16:08:48

1. I don't think that the OP was controlling - what people find a deal breaker is between them. My issue was with "telling off" of the friend. I wouldn't tell off my wives friends based on my beliefs

2. "last thing he'll ever do" I don't think anyone will die somehow

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:09:04

Sab - was that dawn French? No wonder Lenny left for a hotel

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 16:13:25

Is that your attempt at a joke, yougotbale? Don't give up the day job, will you.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:15:15

Sab - no it was a question. So was it her?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 16:16:10

Was Dawn French the OP on the choc orange AIBU thread? Could have been, I suppose. But unlikely I would think.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 16:18:34

I wouldn't tell anyone off apart from my kids. maybe OPs choice of descriptive words of the situation where unwise.

However, I would still voice my opinion of their behaviour in front of them and DP.

The ''last thing you do'' comment is neither here nor there, it's between them if OP sees it as a deal breaker.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:19:05

Of course on that thread? That's the problem with usernames

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 16:24:35

A calming brew for yougotbale. I don't know what you're on about.

And a confused kitten which is also cute and fluffy

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 16:26:45

Are there some posters who literally lie in wait for these threads so they can deliberately derail them with pedantic wanky shit ? It would seem so, and what a shame that is. Their superior grasp of the English language could have been used much more productively than that.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:29:55

Sab - I was on about the difficulty of identifying dawn French on an Internet forum with usernames lol

What is the fluffy kitten thing about? I'm oblivious to its meaning. Please explain

If it's about women being under pressure to pluck. I'm against waxing. Nothing wrong with a bit of fluff

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 16:31:19

kittens are kittens Yougotbale. Simple as that.

They are cute and fluffy and do silly things which make us smile when all around is going slightly mad

EarthMither Thu 03-Oct-13 16:33:31

<slow hand clap>
Way to go Yougotmale - highly effective derailing, you clever boy

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:34:19

I'm allergic to cats. Kittens do malt less (I think).

Remember a cup of coffee is for a break, a cat is for life.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 16:34:57

Why the would you want/need to identify anyone on a forum.
You interact with the person they are on the forum.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:36:33

Earth - it's not derailing. I think the thread would maybe have a more definite path if we heard what this dickhead husband's friend had said in response.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:38:03

Reeling - I don't need to identify anyone.

EarthMither Thu 03-Oct-13 16:39:57

Why is what the husband's friend said important Yougotmale? The OP posted to report what SHE had said. Or don't a woman's words count if they're not contextualised by a male response?

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 16:41:55

I was on about the difficulty of identifying dawn French on an Internet forum with usernames lol

Why do you need to identify her?

The difficulty implies you would like to be able to identify her.

EarthMither Thu 03-Oct-13 16:42:40

I think it was a piss-poor attempt at humour, reeling

Rowlers Thu 03-Oct-13 16:45:34

Thread's a bit ruined now.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 16:46:08

She wasn't asking if she was being U, just chatting and saying how this forum has given her the confidence to speak up when she doesn't like something.

Good on her.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:47:30

Earth - if she had just written what he had said the OPost wouldn't have made much sense.
You can assume he would have some sexist views which may have added to points to discuss. I'm interested how the husband reacted.

To answer your question of course woman's words count. In general equally. In this case more so.

For you to ask that question I assume you don't think they are equal? It was a bias question towards your point of view.

EarthMither Thu 03-Oct-13 16:49:21

Bored now - bye bye Yougotmale. 0/10 for effort btw

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:54:11

It's yougotbale. It's a spurs thing.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 16:55:45

Earth - 0/10? Please give me another chance to get your approval?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 16:56:53

OP came on to say thanks to FWR for giving her the confidence to speak up to dickhead friend boasting about antics in lap dancing bar.

So, of course a few goady fuckers had to come along to put her back in her place. hmm

But thankfully, most of us know that they are goady fuckers who are not very nice, unlike kittens, which are.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 16:58:26

Review - lol. It was a joke.

this is what the Bale said way back when when I challenged him on his daft assertion that what OP said was abusive

So I can safely say he's a goady derailer and he knows it.

Ignore shall be my new policy

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 17:02:43

That's great. I wish we didn't have to live in a world where people had to seek confidence from a website. We need change this society so no matter what sex, race, age, ability has the confidence not only to speak their opinion but be able to speak out about isms and injustices.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 17:04:22

Yes, and not be called 'controlling' and stuff by posters like you, bale. That would be nice too.

comingalongnicely Thu 03-Oct-13 17:05:53

LurcioLovesFrankie^ - comingalong - in my experience, the sort of man who is enough of a saddo to go to lapdancing clubs will interpret "A bit of a chat, some adult discussion & some pointers to get him thinking" as "some stupid cow swearing & banging on at me" in any case, so you might as well have the catharsis of a bit of swearing (specially if they had the cheek to express these opinions in your own house).^

Bit of a big box to put someone in, I still think a discussion is better than rabid abuse TBH. Even if someone has the "cheek" to express an opinion in someone elses house.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 17:09:52

It's a public forum ,sab , I've been called a goady fucker. I don't think that telling people what they can and can't say really the advice the OP used, IMO. That was my view. Silencing people is a bad move, maybe the OP would have confronted with that in mind.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 03-Oct-13 17:11:03

We'll have to agree to differ, then. I still reckon going to a lapdancing club is prima facie evidence of being a knob and absolves me of any responsibility to engage with said knob. I'm pushing 50 and frankly, life's too short. There are nice, intelligent men and women I could be talking to.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 03-Oct-13 17:12:24

That was to cominalongnicely, btw, who is interested in reasonable discussion. Clearly not to Yougotbale (to repeat: life's too short).

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 17:19:29

Bale. You told the OP she was controlling - that was unnecessary and goading. Your last post doesn't actually make enough sense for me respond to though - but your posting style is strangely familiar.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 17:25:03

I know. I read it back and it was nonsense. I meant that you can't edit what people write or say. It was good that the OP spoke up for herself

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 17:27:52

Bale, Your posts don't indicate that you think it was good she spoke up for herself- you called her controlling.

Still, if that's what you're saying now - then that's a good thing.

Grennie Thu 03-Oct-13 17:28:49

This thread is a classic example of men trying to put a feminist "back in her place". They obviously don't think any woman has a right to see herself as an equal to her male partner. And they don't think she should be pleased she stood up for her views, instead of being silenced like so many women are.

Manchester, I am so glad you did this and that this forum gave you the confidence to do it.

And ignore the idiots on here who think a woman should STFU. I suspect some of the posters here think Manchester should have been in the kitchen making sandwiches instead of talking about what she thinks.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 17:29:19

I've always said that sab. I don't know what you are talking about?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 17:34:37

Got it in one, Grennie.

Anyone who doesn't think feminism is still needed should read the posts on this thread.

Yougotbale - we're even then, because I haven't known what you're talking about throughout this thread - except for going on about the op being abusive and Dawn French hmm Still, it whiles away the day for you, I'm sure.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 17:45:12

Sab - that and that it was the right for the OP to speak up. Abusive is my interpretation of what was said.
I hope we would be even. Especially on here.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 17:50:06

Still not any making sense yougotbale. She did the right thing, but it was abusive?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:02:21

Sab - lol. Right to speak up, in the first place.

Wrong/abusive to say what she did to her husband. Using a threat to control someone is bad in my book.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 18:08:02

She has every right to tell her dh she does not want him in a lap dancing club - and that if he does so, she will no longer be in a relationship with him. It is not abusive for a woman to state acceptable boundaries within her own relationship.

It is not controlling for a woman to be in a relationship on her own terms.

ArmyDad Thu 03-Oct-13 18:11:29

Weird. You think it was ok to tell her husbands friend off, but not to discuss boundaries with her husband?

Seems strange

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:12:42

Sab - of course not. But joking about murder is abusive in my eyes. This is how it reads to me. So from my point of view DV is not funny or healthy for a relationship. Threatening people as a means to control I don't accept. That might just be me.
I understand your reading of it. That is why you see it differently.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 18:14:36

In the words of Marge Simpson:

"Oh please, it's a figure of speech"

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:18:48

It reads abusive to me and controlling. Please allow me to have an opinion. I have accepted from the start that you have a differing opinion to me. It's ok, you know

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 18:21:13

It's a very goady opinion to call a woman, who is pleased to have spoken out, and laid some boundaries for her husband's behaviour in front of his misogynistic friend, "abusive."

That's my opinion, and I'm calling you on yours.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 18:22:40

it's fucking stupid to pretend you thought she meant she was actually going to kill her partner.
No body thinks that in RL

Spottybra Thu 03-Oct-13 18:26:34

Pre mn and dd I wouldn't have thought twice about anyone visiting or working in a lap dancing club.

Post mn and dd I say good on you.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:27:27

Sab - not goady if I perceive a threat is used. Setting boundaries are healthy.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 18:27:29

bale do you honestly believe that either she or her husband thought that using this figure of speech meant she was actually planning to murder him if he went to a lap dancing club? Seriously?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 18:29:21

To make out the op 'made threats' and was abusive is, in the great words of reviewsoffers, fucking stupid.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:30:59

Buffy - it may have been jokingly.however, it sounds bad to me. I would feel abusive if I said that to someone

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 18:37:28

Ygb, for God's sake go and make yourself a sandwich, you are digging a hole deeper than the one currently between your ears. I am embarassed for you.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:43:29

Fucker - I've only just eaten. It's my view point. If it will make everyone happy I'll change my mind. I agree with everyone that isn't wrong on here.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 18:52:05
comingalongnicely Thu 03-Oct-13 18:55:07

I'm honestly trying to envisage a situation where my wife has a mate over & they're chatting & I wade in calling them a bunch of twats etc. and I can't, honestly, think of a time it'd be acceptable.

No matter how strongly I felt on the subject, I don't think that dealing with it like a kid in the playground would imply that I was in any way competent to talk about it like an adult.

And I don't care if you're male or female, it doesn't matter in this case - no need to be an ignorant fucker.

As to those complaining about the "DV" threat the OP made - Grow Up for fucks sake.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 18:56:08

Lol. I did the feeding though, if that's what you want to call me.

You bothered to search for that? Or is it a diet aid?

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 18:58:33

You know what gets my goat about goady stupid crap claiming a woman threatened to kill her husband when she quite obviously did nothing of the sort?

It is that it makes a mockery of actual real domestic violence.

Slow Hand Clap for Yougotbale.

I know women must be made to STFU at all costs but do you not see how offensive it is for you to come on this thread and accuse Manchesterhistorygirl, who is a real live person of threatening her partner with murder? I'm now off to report your posts as IMO they are offensive personal attacks.

Manchesterhistorygirl - good on you for speaking out. Ignore all the crap, and keep up the good work.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 18:59:18

But if you were black and they were joking about the attending the Black and White Minstrel Club, right there in front of you? Someone used that analogy above and I think it's apt.
You wouldn't say Oh you have no right to be angry, you should just suck it up, and be nice and quiet. Nobody would expect that, would they? Everyone would understand the anger was justified, and when people are angry they may be, er, less than diplomatic.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:01:59

Beach, it's my opinion but I suppose if you don't like it, report it.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 19:02:02

The OP didn't deal with it like a kid in a playground comingalongnicely. It is offensive and dismissive to suggest that standing up for yourself is akin to behaving like a child.

Threads like this really do show how much men dislike women stating opinions, setting boundaries and disagreeing with them.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 19:02:34

Woman Expresses Opinion to Menz and Uses Figure of Speech Shocker!!

It is just so Daily Fail. And stupid.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 19:04:18

No, I don't like your accusations that the OP threatened her partner with murder. I don't like them at all.

Mainly because they are offensive but also because they are deliberately stupid.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:08:02

Scallop - totally agree. As I have said many times, standing up for yourself and setting boundaries is fantastic.

Leaving abuse out of these processes is a must, agree?

I only differ because have seen what was said as abusive. That is all.

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 19:11:40

Oh just drop it.
You made your point

Everyone disagrees.
Enough said.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:13:46

I only differ because have seen what was said as abusive. That is all.

So, every time that somebody uses a figure of speech such as "I wanted to die" "I nearly died" "that's to die for" you call the police because you are concerned that they are contemplating suicide?

If that sounds utterly ridiculous to you, please consider whether you want to continue calling the OP abusive for (maybe, we don't actually know whether she used these words) saying her husband knew she'd kill him.

And those well known figures of speech are in no way comparable to the rape threats women receive for speaking out online. Or for the jokes about women being punched for not opening a beer quickly enough, that get chortled about by misogynists.

And no, innocently claiming that you have a right to your opinion isn't a get out of jail free card* if you just keep repeating, parrot fashion, that you have one. As that comedian said recently in his wonderful graduation speech (name escapes me for now) opinions are like arseholes: everyone has one. But unlike arseholes, they merit regular and careful examination. I think you should take his advice, bale.

*disclaimer: I am not suggesting that such cards actually get one out of jail if incarcerated. You see the foolishness of taking these metaphors literally?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:14:32

Sorry reviewsie

So every time someone says "I could have killed him/her" or "I wanted to strangle him/her" you call the police, do you? And how does that go for you?

X-posts Buffy!

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:18:37

I know you think you're really clever bale taking one of feminism's issues with male behaviour and turning the tables. Sorry to say we can see through you as if you're made of glass*.

*We do not actually believe you are made from transparent silica based materials.

CaptChaos Thu 03-Oct-13 19:19:19

Way to go Manchester ! Coming on MN and FWR in particular has helped me to become much more confident in expressing my beliefs as well. Calling your DH and his twatty fiends out was exactly the right thing to do.

Don't listen to the rent-a-goady-fucker mob. Any thread like this gets crayoned all over, because, how very bloody dare women have opinions, state those opinions or make it clear that whatever we're calling twats out on is misogynistic/woman-hating behaviour.

I have enjoyed the kittens though.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:24:26

Buffy - figure of speeches beginning with 'I.....' are different in my mind.
Maybe abusive is wrong because it could be a one off and not a long running thing.
I'm not comparing it to rape. But on that subject I don't like sayings like my Facebook got raped, my email got raped, or if it was a more expensive taxi, I've heard people say the taxi driver raped me. I don't like and won't use these.

The reason behind my opinion is the use of the language. Deeper than that, the meanings of the words. That is my reasoning

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 19:26:14

There is no abuse yougotbale. Stop trying to insinuate the OP is abusive. It is really offensive.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:29:36

I agree, I hate the recent trend for using rape to depict these types of annoying but relatively violations. Yawn rape etc.

But if your objection lies in the meaning of the words, how do you react when someone says any of the examples mentioned above? People say "to die for" and "I wanted to die" all the time.

What about when people say "that drives me crazy"? Do you consider this a slur on mental illness? Do you offer them a lift to a psychiatric facility?

I suspect that you do not.

I further suspect that you're using your 'innocent' concern over this one phrase that the OP posted in order to try and goad us.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:32:30

*relatively minor violations. Makes sense now grin

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 19:35:39

I would have to say your posts on here seem abusive yougotbale. Gaslighting, turning the argument round on to the OP rather than discussing the bad behaviour of the man exploiting women. Goading and provoking, continually even after several posters have complained about it. Those are pretty abusive traits.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 19:36:45

OK. I just reported your posts personally attacking the OP and accusing her of abusing her partner and threatening murder. There were quite a lot of them, about a dozen.

This sort of crap is soooo typical. Woman opens mouth and speaks out against misogyny. Woman seeks a little sisterhood and exchange about speaking out against misogyny.

Woman is personally attacked and has wildly fanciful and offensive slurs thrown at her. Repeatedly.

It is so transparent.

Woman shuts the fuck up as is her place is hopefully spurred on to continue speaking out against misogyny.

Manchesterhistorygirl - you go girl. See how they really don't like it when we speak up. The vitriol is quite something. Hope you are OK after all this personal and offensive attack.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:37:38

Buffy - I think it's the way in this threads OP to control someone's actions. It sounds like a threat rather than a reasonable setting of boundaries. It doesn't really describe how the OP feels as such. Apart from it would make her angry enough to kill. It describes what will happen to him.

I don't know her and it sound manipulative to me and possibly abusive.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 19:40:22

Totally agree with you scallops.

Yougotbale's posts attempt to gaslight the OP and the rest of us really obviously and badly.

Hence why I reported.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:41:29

Beach - you don't have to report me to me.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 19:43:34

And he still won't put a sock in it.

Disclaimer - the above is a figure of speech. I am not threatening any posters with actually tracking them down and attempting to silence them with socks.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 19:43:34

"I don't know her and it sound manipulative to me and possibly abusive." The fact that you keep saying this, repeatedly, in so many posts is unnecessary. Not sure why you keep saying it. Everyone knows how you feel. They just don't agree with you.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:46:02

You are the only person who 'thinks' that the OP was threatening to kill her husband or that her husband might have thought this was what she meant. In fact, we don't even know whether the OP said those words to her husband at all.

Your accusations that she's abusive on this basis are completely unfounded and I agree with others that you're attempting badly to gaslight us by pretending to be concerned about the OP's husband.

I've asked this question a couple of times recently and here I go again: do you really have so little respect for the women posting on this thread that you can argue this?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:46:11

Sorry scallop. I was asked to explain by Buffy. I won't say it again

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:49:57

No, not asked to explain. Asked to re-examine your opinions. Not denied your right to have them (arseholes, remember) but asked whether you really really want to stand by them given that so many people regard your continued claim that the OP is abusive as, well, abusive.

reelingintheyears Thu 03-Oct-13 19:50:44

You'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Pore old YoGurtBale.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:52:26

Buffy - I have all the respect for everyone on here. I am not arguing with your opinions or trying to pick at them. I'm very pleased to hear other views.

I understand that my opinion may not be good for the OP to hear and I admit maybe some of my language may have not been spot on. But if you post on a public forum then expect many different views.
If you openly talk about going to strip bars, being racist, talking about a relationship on a forum then expect views. And other posters expect different views too.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 19:52:42

I agree that bale has personally attacked the op, beach.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 19:55:16

But you aren't talking about the what the thread was supposed to be about. You are continually calling the OP abusive and manipulative.

If you don't think your opinion is god for the OP to hear, why are you giving it confused

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 19:56:15

All this emphasis on that one figure of speech from the OP is rather like me taking your last post:

Sorry scallop. I was asked to explain by Buffy. I won't say it again

...and taking the whole thread off on a massive tangent about your choice of the word "say" when actually, you "typed" it. What does this mean? Are you delusional? Should we contact MNHQ so that they can ask the emergency services to make sure that you aren't going to harm yourself because you've lost grip on reality?

Woah, hang on you say, it was a figure of speech I don't really believe I was speaking to you through your computer screens...

No, no, we say, we are entitled to our opinions and you sound delusional (and possibly psychotic) to us.

And on it would go with absolutely no relevance to your actual point.

This is what you have done to the OP.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 19:57:29

Scallop - it is what it's about. The long and short of was I told the mate, then I told my husband.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:00:57

Buffy - that's fine. I get your opinion. Post about whatever you want to.

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 20:04:09

No it wasn't yougotbale. It was about the OP having found the confidence to stand up for herself and set boundaries, because of FWR. Not to insult and gaslight her.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:06:34

Scallop - so the confidence bit was telling the mate, the boundary setting was telling the husband??

scallopsrgreat Thu 03-Oct-13 20:08:42

Work it out for yourself.

Beachcomber Thu 03-Oct-13 20:09:42

Manchesterhistorygirl. Thank you for this thread.

I think what happens on here is brilliant. Lots of us have gained confidence from MN in general (not just FWR) to speak out about things. When women come together and share experiences and stand up for each other and our common values and experiences, it really creates something strong.

And we won't be quiet and be intimidated and be gaslighted and silenced. Strength in numbers. smile

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:11:41

Scallop - sorry I meant that's basically what I said ????

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 20:15:15

No, baley - that isn't what you said. You called her abusive and controlling - that's what we're all arguing against.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:17:36

Sab - not that. I'm talking about my description of the original post.
I'm so glad bale is injured

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 20:19:03

Stop trying to gaslight, baley. It won't work.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:20:56

I'm not gaslighting.

£85 mill. We won again in Europe. No bale but a stronger squad

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 20:23:52

Well, no, you're not succeeding to gaslight us- because we're not having any of it and can see right through you. (disclaimer - not literally - I can't see you, and even if I could, I'm sure you're not actually transparent).

I wonder if MN would do a gaslighting emoticon grin

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 20:24:57

There are two derailments on this thread.

I agree that the OPs phrasing was a figure of speech, and if it wasn't, I'll eat my hat. (I won't really, this is a figure of speech too)

Anyone saying otherwise is either a bit silly to take things litterally or is being naughty.

However, people telling OP that she should have acted with a bit more tact, are not saying women should STFU. It is not a sexism issue. The same advice would/should be given to a man who embarrasses himself and his partner by ranting on an issue, thereby silencing debate and creating a mood.

There was a post above about someone using prostitutes. That's different to lap dancing in my opinion in terms of legality. It's up to you where you draw the line of course, but sometimes its better to not say anything, ESP if no one has broken the law.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:27:04

Sab - you are not gaslighting now are you? Or is it a form of goading. Maybe a combo.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 20:31:19

I agree that calling for 'a bit of tact' is a different kettle of fish from calling the OP abusive (disclaimer: no actual fish were harmed in the writing of this post).

However, the posters like lib, who called her ranty and unreasonable are equally making an attempt to silence the OP imo. Telling women not be ranty, and that she should have said nothing at the time, and raised it with partner later because she embarrassed him is silencing her. It's telling her that her opinion isn't fit to be aired in the presence of her husband/friend. That women should be demure, and gentle, and not entitled to strong opinions, or to call men out on their misogynistic behaviour. And that's not on.

BuffytheFeministFeminist Thu 03-Oct-13 20:32:52

zippey I agree with you that there can be ways to communicate one's point that put people's backs up and ways to communicate one's point that don't.

Can you ask yourself the question of whether you'd give the same advice to a black man angry at racism, or a gay man angry at homophobia? Would you say to him the equivalent of 'calm down dear, be polite and maybe they might think about why you're upset'.

SamanthaHD Thu 03-Oct-13 20:33:44

'I'm honestly trying to envisage a situation where my wife has a mate over & they're chatting & I wade in calling them a bunch of twats etc. and I can't, honestly, think of a time it'd be acceptable.'

^^this. If DH did this to me I'd be so furious I'd probably visit every lap dance club in town to piss him off. And send him photos.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 20:40:46

I guess that's one response, samantha. And that would be fine - although, if it was me, I would then exercise my right to end the relationship. Because I don't want to be in relationships with misogynistic idiots who would visit lapdancing clubs as a revenge for my speaking out against them.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 20:41:09

I think the point should always be raised, especially in her own home. I would even raise an opinion about religion to someone of faith. If their faith was sexist, racist, disabalist (not a word), etc

Thants Thu 03-Oct-13 20:47:07

Well done op. I do the same if I here anyone talking about going to strip clubs or brothels. I confronted the owner of a strip club near me. I think it is always important to challenge misogyny or any kind of discrimination and inequality whenever you witness it. Maybe it will change some peoples minds and and then their attitudes and actions!

zippey Thu 03-Oct-13 21:23:11

I think the problem is we disagree on the degree of lap dancing being sexist and misogynistic.

I would speak up if someone said women should cover their faces in public (but men don't have to), or women shouldn't be allowed into a golf club, or black people are not as clever as white people or homosexual couples should not be allowed to get married. I think there is clear isms in these instances.

However when I say "speak up" I wouldn't say your views are disgusting, and you are an arse. I'd try and engage in a debate, and even agree to disagree if need be.

I think that's where OP went wrong. Her passion wasn't channeled correctly. Id say the same if the sexes were reversed.

It also doesn't sit well with me that OP is looking for a congratulatory pat on the back for being a bit mean to her guest. After all, he didn't think he did anything wrong, its all above the law, and would probably have left feeling defensive in his views.

FloraFox Thu 03-Oct-13 21:37:42

Fuxache the tone police are out in force tonight.

Congratulations Manchesterhistorygirl <pats back>

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 21:42:20

"being mean to her guest" grin

rosabud Thu 03-Oct-13 21:53:00

You are right to speak up and, as it is not always easy to speak up, it can be important to come on here and share that experience.

Lapdancing clubs are, of course, sexist for all the excellent resons already mentioned. In addition, men who are already in a relationship are being unfaithful to their partners when they visit lapdancing clubs as they are joining in with a sexual activity with another woman. just because they haven't touched the other woman does not mean that they have not joined in with a sexual activity. If your friend came round to your house while you were out and stripped for your husband and then sat very close to him waving her breasts and genitals in his face and, instead of removing himself from the situation, he simply sat there and enjoyed it - would you consider that he had been unfaithful? Of course.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 21:54:05

Sab - don't derail by picking up on one phrase

ReviewsOffers Thu 03-Oct-13 21:55:22


CaptChaos Thu 03-Oct-13 21:55:37

It also doesn't sit well with me that OP is looking for a congratulatory pat on the back for being a bit mean to her guest.

She's not. She's thanking fellow women for their help and support over a period of time which has helped her to formulate and articulate her beliefs about a specific subject. She's fairly explicit about that.

It's a real shame that a lot of people are taking from this post how 'mean' the OP is, or how they wouldn't have done the same. confused

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 22:08:03

I'm back and hasn't this moved on a lot?

I did not say I would murder my husband I said it would be the last thing he ever did. Meaning in the context of our relationship.

His mate, I repeat GODFATHER to our sons, had been making lots of lovely jokes about women wearing white to get married in because it's the same colour as domestic appliances. Excuse me whilst I don't just sit there and put up with that in my own home! I hope that outs it into context for those (bale) who were asking.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:11:56

You're right to speak up about that Manchester. He sounds like a twat. That 'white like domestic appliances' is a well-known misogynistic joke hmm

Ignore old Baley's derails - he thinks he's clever. He's not.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:13:25

I think he's Treen44444 btw. Plus many others probably. Visiting from reddit.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:16:44

^ Just my opinion of course.

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 22:17:17

The dumbasses are interchangeable. Matters not which actual one it is. Unless they are all the same grubby little weed getting a semi from having grown up women pay them a bit of attention.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:19:09

I think it's exactly that AF. They are few but prolific namechangers/new registers. And they all want our attention. Bless.

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 22:22:12

Thank you for asking am I ok with regards to the "personal attacks". Yes I am, I don't see them as attacks on me, but pathetic attempts to derail the thread over a figure of speech in an attempt to divert from what was actually said and done by someone who is close to my family and who's actions are at best misguided and at worst deliberate mysoginy.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:24:47

I'm pleased that that's how you feel op. Some pretty nasty stuff has been written on this thread.

But what Beach wrote is right. Solidarity. Strength in numbers.

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 22:32:27

"I'm honestly trying to envisage a situation where my wife has a mate over & they're chatting & I wade in calling them a bunch of twats etc. and I can't, honestly, think of a time it'd be acceptable."

Well, if someone came into your house and deliberately chose a topic of conversation designed to put you down, then it would be acceptable, no? Someone coming into your home and sneering at you in a passive-aggressive, covert way, designed to let you know that you shouldn't get above yourself and you should just remember that you're not quite as human as they are?

Has this ever happened to you? Because it happens to women all the time. And it happened to Manchesterhistorygirl. When men talk about fucking women or going to lapdancing clubs, or visiting Thai prostitutes, or pore over pornography shouting "phwoar, look at the tits on that!" when women are present, they are doing it in order to deliberately insult, embarrass, control and silence women, to put us in our place and to remind us that we're the sex caste. That we're one of those Untermenschen who are there to be fucked by them. In a workplace context it's known as sexual harassment, it's acknowledged that it creates a hostile environment for women and it's illegal. In our own homes, it's fucking abusive behaviour from a guest and the OP was absolutely right to slap the bastard down.

Venceremos. grin

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 22:36:03

And BTW that's gone largely undiscussed on here - how fucking aggressive, rude and hostile the OP's guest was and how actually, him talking about lapdancing clubs, was a calculated insult to her.

The men arguing that she was rude, have completely glossed over how fucking insulting he was. He deserved to be horsewhipped, not just told off.

[NB: I'm not actually abusively advocating horse-whipping nobbers. I'm using that term in the "horse-whip the cad" colloquial sense of the word, which is generally not understood to be a literal exhortation.]

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 22:38:09

Men: if you don't want women to think you are utter fucking nobbers and actively attacking us, remember not to talk about other women as if they - and by extension we - are bits of meat, in front of us.

We know what you're doing when you do that, even when you pretend that you don't know what we're talking about when we call you on it.


Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 22:43:41

Thanks for clearing that up manchester, i bet you are glad your husbands mate doesn't come round anymore. God must be evil to allow you to chose him as a godparent.

Remember to always speak up.

rosabud Thu 03-Oct-13 22:44:04

thanks cake wine for Basil and OP

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 22:50:40

Do one, bale.

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 22:56:00

I would consider it a result if someone who deliberately tried to make me feel less than in my own house never darkened the doorstep again.

One less wanker polluting my personal air space < dusts off hands >

A good days work, OP.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 22:57:10

Manchester, I'm sorry for misreading the situation. I'm sorry that because of that I called you names you definitely are not. I'm sorry

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:00:48

Oh. What caused you to misread the situation, do you think, bale?

I'm sure op is much obliged by your apology.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:03:31

sab it was the way I read the words. The fact that OP only cleared it up now made me think I was right. I can only live and learn. Again, sorry

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:05:09

nincompoops...ten a-fuckin' penny

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:06:42

No, you don't get to apologise to OP and claim you were right. You can live and learn though.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:09:53

God! What a hairy handed trucker.

registary Thu 03-Oct-13 23:15:14

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:16:15

See ? Ten a penny.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:17:20

Yep. Ten a penny.

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 23:17:39

Are you drunk Registary?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:20:56

Register for rehab

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:22:07

YGB, have you nothing to say to registary about his abusive threats of violence ?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:22:19

Yes, I think you should baleyboy.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:25:14

Come on baley - where's the distraught about op being threatened with getting her teeth knocked out over her stance against lap dancing clubs? Lets have a little continuity here!

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:26:14

He clearly is after a fight. If he knocks my teeth out i will have knotted hair or flys that won't do up.
You guys have already reported? Right?

He is a fundamental nut job

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 23:27:22

Bale I only cleared it up now because I've been put all afternoon and evening, hence the enormous time gap in my posting.

registary Thu 03-Oct-13 23:28:11

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:28:27

Ah, he's a nutjob. but he's one of your mates So no point speaking out? Yet you were so vociferous against OP....

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:30:11

He give humans/men/his family/ apes a bad name. That is clearly abusive. It's in black an white. It's not been goaded. It's some deep routed shit.

Please report it. I don't want to say 'you can't talk to women like that' but I have. Sorry if that is annoying

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:31:22

For several hours you argued about OP's choice of words on this thread - yet registry is ok? Just a bit mad. How surprising.

registary Thu 03-Oct-13 23:32:01

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Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:32:02

Sab - one of my mates? What?

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:32:16

Me? I'm flabberghasted.

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 23:32:18

Odfod registry. If another adult enters my private space, spouts mysogynistic shite and I call them on that behaviour I then run the risk of being physically attacked in my home? What a crock of shite.

registary Thu 03-Oct-13 23:33:04

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AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:33:26

The MRA klaxon has clearly been sounded somewhere in the bowels of t'internet

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:33:34

Or maybe not.

Maybe OP is justified in being against lap dancing clubs - just a thought.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:33:47

Are my post not showing?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:35:20

I'm not sure they are, bale. Or maybe we're just ignoring you as we should have done from the beginning.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:37:13

Registry - don't you have school tomorrow? You have been reported, and don't personally attack the OP. Especially when being abusive. If you feel you have a point make it more generally.


SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:37:31

Post pub chuck out = hairy handers everywhere.

registary Thu 03-Oct-13 23:37:58

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Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:38:47

Sab - that's fair enough. It was people telling me to get outraged when I thought I was.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:38:48

bale you've been abusive to the op, and been reported for it hmm why up in arms about someone else?

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:40:51

Registary - it wasn't the OP passing legislation that effects you. It was a point made to her husband and his mate.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:42:11

I think I'll go back to the kittens now.

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:42:29

Sab - I see violent threats different to an opinion on a situation.

BasilBabyEater Thu 03-Oct-13 23:44:48


Another ten-a-penny nincompoop

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:45:15

yawn. how boring you are bale. I'm terribly tired of people like you.

AnyFucker Thu 03-Oct-13 23:48:26

Being lumped in with the goady hecklers must be very upsetting and feel like you have been treated very unfairly. What say you, YGB ?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:49:22

Plus, I thought you'd apologised for reading the op wrong there, bale.

Gah. Can anyone be arsed with these posters? They're so tedious!

Yougotbale Thu 03-Oct-13 23:50:48

Ok SAB, sorry. I thought abuse might be on a spectrum. That thing you said about kittens is still fresh. I mustn't yawn

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 03-Oct-13 23:55:26

Kittens are cute and endearing. You are not.

Manchester well done for speaking up.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 00:01:08

Those same kittens would eat you if you passed away. Only kidding, I like pussies. I prefer the general domestic to the over bread ones. They tend to have better temperaments

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 00:11:50

Yes, baley. I thought you'd get onto that sort of thing soon. We all knew the sort of poster you were. Did you think you had us fooled? Ha ha. Or should that be f**led? Ten a penny.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 00:14:59

What? A cat man rather than a dog man.

We had a tabby and a pure black one just like Sabrina

JessInAvalon Fri 04-Oct-13 00:15:05

Wow, not checked for most of the day and now see there are nearly 300 replies on this thread!

I wish I could like a lot of the responses on here. When my ex boyfriend went to a strip club I didn't have the guts to speak out. We did argue about it later. There's no way I would put up with it now and I would always challenge someone for going now. I think it is a form of cheating because most people wouldn't put up with their partner paying an 18 year old to rub themselves naked on their lap at home. And most men are very hypocritical and would hate it if it was their sister/daughter doing it. So ok to degrade someone else's sister/daughter but not their own. I hate it that some men divide women into two groups - one group they can respect and another group they don't have to. Hypocrisy IMHO.

registary Fri 04-Oct-13 00:19:25

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JessInAvalon Fri 04-Oct-13 00:28:38

That's nice Registary.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 00:30:12

"little morals" yes registry. That's right. Women's feelings are all "little" and "inconsequential" aren't they? Hope you enjoy your limited time on MN - or that inventing new e-mail addresses is a particular hobby of yours <yawn>

Jess, I know exactly what you mean.

ravenAK Fri 04-Oct-13 00:31:57

It actually is quite nice.

It would make it slightly socially easier for OP & her dh to chuck the wanky little grub out of their home, rather than feeling a bit guilty because he's a family friend, who hadn't hitherto revealed himself as quite such a wanky little grub.

registary Fri 04-Oct-13 00:38:47

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registary Fri 04-Oct-13 00:39:39

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SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 00:42:10

He could do that. If he was a misogynist twat, who hadn't actually realised that women are equals.

registary Fri 04-Oct-13 00:47:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 01:20:13

Who says that registary? No one I know that's for sure. Sure you're not falling back on the MRA straw man there?

registary Fri 04-Oct-13 01:28:09

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BitBewildered Fri 04-Oct-13 01:29:29

It was yougotbale.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 01:31:01

"It was yougotbale" grin ha ha.

BitBewildered Fri 04-Oct-13 01:32:05


Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 01:34:08

That was me knobber and I apologised first. It was a bit tongue in cheek lol

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 01:35:08

Registry - have you heard what your uncle and dad get up to on 4*?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 01:36:30

Curiouser and curiouser.

The trolls are actually fighting each other confused

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 01:38:23

Sab - I'm not a troll. You are a wind up

ravenAK Fri 04-Oct-13 01:38:46

Quiet night on pistonheads, obv.

BitBewildered Fri 04-Oct-13 01:39:37

I know. Strangely pleasing.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 01:41:03

Several people think you are on this thread baley- incessantly and groundlessly calling the op an abuser is a personal attack, and against forum guidelines.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 01:43:52

Sab - so is troll hunting. I've let that name calling go a few times. Just give it a rest.

What are the names of the other users?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 01:59:30

Everyone can see you for what you are bakey - someone that wants to call a woman standing up for herself an 'abuser'. That's all you're doing here. Everything else is just smokescreen.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:03:51

Not at all. You know the reason I said it was abusive. It wasn't related to the standing up for herself part.
It was how I perceived the OP was reinforcing her relationship boundaries.

Anyway, you already new that

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:08:40

No, you didn't properly explain yourself bale. Are you now saying you don't think the op was abusive?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:14:55

Sab - read it back I've clarified my opinion many times. Before the OP came back I perceived what she said to the husband as abusive. Not the standing up part. Not the boundary setting. But the part about 'the last thing you do'. I saw it as abuse aimed at controlling.

But you already new that.

Since the OP came back. I apologised and I don't think it was abuse in this context.

But you knew that.

PainInTheBum Fri 04-Oct-13 02:15:35

I felt awful when I read this thread as I realised I'd been horribly abusive at home by threatening the removal of bollocks due to not putting the seat down/or not putting it up. I thought I was taking the piss and now understand how horrendous my behaviour was and promise to keep my silly little opinions to myself. I'm practising my tinkly laugh and boys will be boys head tilt.

A big thanks to those who posted pictures of kittens, little fluffy kittens so help to remind me of my place in the world. What would Hubby have thought if he'd known what silly thoughts I'd had <tinkly laugh and self indulgent head tilt>.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:17:50

Pain - it doesn't make sense because you knew the context of your comments.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:26:00

And so did the OP, bale.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:30:04

Sab - I know that is why she came back and clarified. Up until then it was opinion based.

The OP didn't post that she thought she was abusive because she already new.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:33:09


She didn't say anything that 'clarified' bale - you've just backed down because you realised how silly you looked calling her 'abusive'.

DropYourSword Fri 04-Oct-13 02:35:28

Hmmmm. If this was switched round, and a husband had `told off` his wife and her friends and had said to her if he found out she'd done something like this it'd be the absolute last thing she ever did, and the wife came on here and posted about it then mumsnet would be up in arms, giving her sympathy and telling her he was controlling, abusive and to LTB !

I really believe in equality, I just don't believe in going about it like this.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:36:30

Sab - she did. She explained the interpretation of the phrase. You must have seen it. I don't get you, you are a mischief maker

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:36:46

I really believe those that believe in equality wouldn't set foot in a lap dancing club.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:40:52

Sab the post where OP clarifies is:

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 03-Oct-13 22:08:03.


SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:44:59

No, bale. that's the OP being fabulous and magnanimous. Not you actually taking back what you said. Why don't you own it?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:47:32

How can I take something back in her post?

I think again I'm going to have to have a different interpretation of a post to you.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 02:53:55

Obviously you can't take something back in her post hmm

Would you like to take anything back from yours? Or do you still think she's abusive?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 02:57:55

Sab - read it back I've clarified my opinion many times. Before the OP came back I perceived what she said to the husband as abusive. Not the standing up part. Not the boundary setting. But the part about 'the last thing you do'. I saw it as abuse aimed at controlling.

But you already knew that.

Since the OP came back. I apologised and I don't think it was abuse in this context.

But you knew that.

I've pasted a previous post. You can read it again. You are saying the same thing.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:02:08

So you've apologised and admitted the op wasn't abusive then. Good.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:05:32

That was about 3 pages ago. You said, from memory, something like 'you don't get to apologise'.

You should sleep, recharge the brain.

I've got RSI (the S does stand for strain), good night

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:10:47

I said you don't get to apologise and still call the OP abusive, which is what you did.

I just want you to categorically to say that you don't still think the Op abusive - because I'm still not clear.

FloraFox Fri 04-Oct-13 03:12:07

sab said you don't get to apologise and claim you were right. It was obvious to everyone except you bale what context was. The OP didn't need to clarify. You were in the wrong even before she clarified.

Why am I left with the feeling that it was because the other men on the thread told you to grow up that you had a sudden change of half-heart?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:14:41

I don't, I miss interpreted it. As I said before.

If the OP had meant it as a threat. Would that have been abusive? (Hypothetically)

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:17:27

Flora I apologised for my interpretation. I don't know who are guys on here. I changed my view when the OP clarified.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:20:57

Yeah flora - that was my thought too. Baley, You don't get to apologise and still be 'right'. If you changed your view you will admit you were wrong to call the op abusive.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:22:38

What is your answer to the hypothetical question?

FloraFox Fri 04-Oct-13 03:30:14

Changing the subject much?

Perception is obviously not your strong point, as evidenced by your inability to grasp the frankly fucking obvious tenor of the OP's statement and your inability to identify the male posters. I suggest you take this as a learning experience and post with caution in future or fuck off altogether .

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:32:47

What was it about my reply to you that changed the subject?

Flora I apologised for my interpretation. I don't know who are guys on here. I changed my view when the OP clarified.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:35:03

The OP clearly wasn't a threat to anyone with more than a single braincell. So stop trying to make out it's abusive.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:36:59

Sab - I haven't since the OP came back on.

What is your answer to the hypothetical?

FloraFox Fri 04-Oct-13 03:40:26

Your question is an attempt to change the subject. Further evidence of lack of perception.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:41:40

Flora what would you answer to the question?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:42:11

It's a different scenario on the same subject

FloraFox Fri 04-Oct-13 03:45:12

I'm not interested in your derail bale

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:48:57

No there is no scenario on the same subject. It's very simple - you've apologised yet still claimed to be 'right.' Do you baley, still consider the op to be abusive to her partner?

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 03:50:18

Lol you don't want to answer. It's not a trick question. I'm just showing how a different perception of what was said would draw different conclusions. I guess neither answered because you didn't want to say that threats are not abusive or you didn't want to admit there was ambiguity in what was said or in the scenario.
Either way I don't mind. OP clarified, I apologised.

Flora - do you watch neighbours? (Now that's a subject change)

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 03:59:25

Do you still think op was abusive bale? What we think about hypotheticals is really not relevant. You can't project hypotheticals onto the OP - no matter how much you will think it will win your argument.

This is the thread we're on - do you still think she's abusive? That's what relevant.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 04:02:37

Not now the OP clarified. I don't think she was in this scenario.

Before, Interpreting the phrase from the original post as a threat, I did.

I can't be any clearer.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 04:04:28

Sab - the hypothetical was my original perception. So i was seeing that if you perceived it as me whether you would draw the same conclusions?

Would you??

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 04:04:39


Night night.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 04:06:48

Would you? Answer in the morning


SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 04:09:13

No, I can save you the trouble of logging in in the morning. I would not draw the same conclusions as you. I was going on the OP - as you you should have been - not some concocted in my imagination scenario.

Yougotbale Fri 04-Oct-13 04:10:39



SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 04-Oct-13 04:11:41

Night, imagination boy.

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