Relationships between school girls and teachers

(37 Posts)

I was reading the National Enquirer. Yes, I know. I do read proper, enlightening, real news but I need something for the toilet too. There were two articles that struck me as weird and worth noting. One about Monica Lewinsky and one about Lauren Silverman, Simon Cowell's married GF.

Both mentioned that these women had been sexually abused relationships with married teachers at school. In both cases this was seen as evidence that the women were temptresses and morally bankrupt. 'Always been like this' was the message.

Now, I would think that even an idiot could see that a girl who was vulnerable and targeted by a male, older, married teacher might have some issues later on. I have no idea if they were under the age of consent when they were abused by these men. In both cases I know that the men were; older; married; in loco parentis; teachers FFS.

It's crap like this that makes me think that we have a huge mountain to climb. If I think that the women concerned may have problems with appropriate sexuality because of what happened to them and the NE is convinced that they were always to blame, even as children, how do we change that? Blaming child victims of sexual abuse? I have no idea.

Agree, there is still agenda promoted by large sections of both print and broadcast media juxtaposing moral outrage next to sexualised portrayal of young women. Makes me vom, but I still read the Daily Mail on occasion just to recharge my anger.

rosabud Sun 25-Aug-13 07:49:21

I do agree and it makes me wonder something else too - the fact that "general thinking" is so reluctant to change on this topic, does it actually signal that, deep down, many people in our society ARE attracted to children/very young adults and this perceived notion that some very young female adults are "gagging for it" helps to ease the thought of this very uncomfortable truth? It's almost an accepted part of our popular culture from Lolita to St Trinian's to the Britney Spears video. In fact, the very juxtaposition of moral outrage stories on paedophiles alonside sexualised pictures of young girls is serving this denial - "don't worry, yo're not a monster like the horrible bloke who had nasty pictures on his computer, your fantasy with teens in school uniform is with proper women who are gagging for it."

TheDoctrineOfPositivityYes Sun 25-Aug-13 08:58:34

Yy rosa.

TheDoctrineOfPositivityYes Sun 25-Aug-13 09:08:02

A cousin of mine who has a hobby that he's good enough to teach makes jokes about "teenage girls hanging off his every word" at his course (mixed sexes attend and all aged 16+).

He's twice their age and married and would never do anything but it's a totally acceptable "wink wink nudge nudge" subject - which builds into the "sexy schoolgirl" stuff.

It does make me worry about that too, that there are a lot of people who are attracted to young people. It also sends a message to the young women that this is OK. I remember singing along to Don't Stand So Close to Me. I loved Sting. He was a teacher at one point.

toomanyfionas Sun 25-Aug-13 12:05:00

You are so right. We have a long way to go

EldritchCleavage Mon 26-Aug-13 18:40:17

I agree with rosa.

Also, It's all dealt with, if at all, on a schmaltzy, TV movie of the week sort of level. People are very very uncomfortable talking about the real effects and damage of sexual abuse in any kind of candid, responsible way. Like how it can have an effect on sexual behaviours and people can find their sexuality focused on people like the abuser.

SinisterSal Mon 26-Aug-13 21:02:50

I wonder is it some type of arrested development type thing. Most guys first sexual attractions would be to young teens in school uniform, the girls in their class at school. Maybe that sticks, in some cases?

YoniTime Mon 26-Aug-13 21:26:34

Perhaps Sal, unfortunately also for some (too many) the knowledge that someone very young is easy to fool/seduce/abuse.

If that were the case, surely women would fancy skinny, Goth, pale boys with faint mustaches (or was that just me at 15). Now, I look at boys like that and think, "awwww, he would have been my boyfriend at 15, I wonder if DD will go out with boys like him". Not "PHWOAR" like some men seem to think about school girls.

I also wonder if it's all tied up with the penchant in the media for very slim, almost breastless, completely hairless women as the ideal.

It's not just the fact that some men find them attractive, though. It's the fact that they get a bloody pass. It's not like no women ever fancy inappropriate men. It's the fact that a married, older, position of authority figure seems to be helpless in the sights of a school girl. Pathetic and very worrying.

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 01:05:22

I was reading a story on how Poppy was robbed of her iphone by Abdul and the basic premise was Poppy shouldnt have been walking in an immigrant area....
...
....
Its not that some immigrants find it easy to rob. Its the fact they enjoy doing it. Its not like British people don't steal too. Its the fact a tall, well built immigrant seems to be helpless at the sight of Poppy listening to her music. Pathetic and very worrying.

Not PHWOAR like some men seem to think about school girls
What you are describing is a paedophile.

The problem with feminism nowadays is its all sensationalising. You write like the daily mail, in the pretence of being good, but on the other hand pretty much slating the whole gender.

but on the other hand pretty much slating the whole gender You don't know the difference between the words 'some' and 'most'. HTH

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 01:51:25

It's not just the fact that some men find them attractive, though. It's the fact that they get a bloody pass. It's not like no women ever fancy inappropriate men. It's the fact that a married, older, position of authority figure seems to be helpless in the sights of a school girl. Pathetic and very worrying

Its not that some immigrants find it easy to rob. Its the fact they enjoy doing it. Its not like British people don't steal too. Its the fact a tall, well built immigrant seems to be helpless at the sight of Poppy listening to her music. Pathetic and very worrying

No it didnt help because I Pretty much copied YOU word for word.

At least your attempt in trying to enlighten me of my lack of knowledge between the difference of 'some' and 'most' suggest you get my point.

But you aren't talking about the point I am talking about. Two articles in the print media which blame girls for a 'relationship' with a married, older teacher. I am not saying that most men want to do this kind of thing, far from it. I am asking why when they do, why are they not rightly pilloried for doing it? Why are the two women in question at fault not the two men in positions of authority? Do you really think it is OK for two articles to separately blame two women for sexual abuse relations they had with married teachers? Really?

Your example is not the same. I know you think it is. It is not.

BTW Google 'paedophile' because, once again, definitions are not your strong point. It is either hebephilia or ephebophilia.

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 03:46:40

As you requested, according to google a paedophile is "sexual desire in an adult for a child."
Anyone who is 16 and under IS a child, if I'm honest a teenager is a child.
Any grown man who goes '"PHWOAR!!' to school children IS a paedophile.
Hebephilia or Ephebophilia are just other words for Peados.

Of course you are going to deny and claim the argument is not similar hmm

As for the articles on NATIONAL ENQUIRE, well it is NATIONAL ENQUIRE, their aim is to sell as many magazines as possible.

Prepubescent child actually but who cares what words mean?

Your spurious, annoying and irrelevant example... If someone was genuinely arguing that an immigrant was not to blame for robbing someone and instead that person was guilty of getting themselves robbed, and that immigrant was in a position of authority (so SW, Police Officer, teacher) but robbed that person anyway. And, there were two articles in the same paper arguing in two different cases that the robbed person was to blame, just because of their nationality, I would think that was very biased. Also, the articles would have to also be talking about 'Poppy' and the other crime victim being in a weird financial situation later. Their possible guilt in this situation would be assessed based on the fact that they were robbed in the past.

Their status as crime victims would be used to suggest that they were bound to in the wrong in a fraud case for example. I simply can't imagine that.

rosabud Tue 27-Aug-13 08:51:54

The other reason that arse's example deosn't make sense is because he changes the words slightly. MrsTerry wrote "they get a bloody pass" whereas arse wrote "it's the fact they enjoy doing it" thus altering MrsTerry's point. we are not discussing whether or not some men find children attractive, we are discussing why society/the media, in the case of the child being a young schoolgirl, implies that this is understandable/acceptable and that, in fact, the victim is either to blame and/or wanted it to happen.

So the only point that arse has made in his attempt to derail is that the answer could be because the newspapaer in question wishes to sell a lot of copies which only reiterates what most readers will have already assumed/known/worked out for themselves and is, we can therefore conclude, an attempt to silence or end the discussion without getting to the deeper issue.

As I said in my previous post, I suspect that society/individual people don't wish to examine this closely because it is points to an uncomfortable truth.

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 10:01:54

Funny how in your first response your point was based on the word SOME and not MOST.
Now your response has completely changed.

My example was instead of focusing on victim blaming by sometabloid magazine, you spew out the usual man hating stuff.
What a load of tosh.

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 10:03:44

Rosa it doesn't change the point.
If sexes where reversed it would have sounded like a typical MRA post.

LeBFG Tue 27-Aug-13 10:09:04

arsenaltilidie Tue 27-Aug-13 03:46:40
Anyone who is 16 and under IS a child, if I'm honest a teenager is a child.

Only in the eyes of the law.

In many modern cultures, and certainly western cultures in the past, it is and was commonplace to marry and have children with teenagers. Are they all pedophiles?

Could anyone enlighten me as to arse's last post because I am at a loss? Man-hating? WTF? Just to be clear. I hate child abuse, I hate victim blaming, I am a feminist, I don't hate men.

ArtemisKelda Tue 27-Aug-13 15:54:48

MrsTP I don't see any man-hating either, I see some excellent posts highlighting double standards and victim blaming in the media.

BasilBabyEater Tue 27-Aug-13 16:52:57

Calling feminists man-haters is like patriotism- the last bastion of a scoundrel

scallopsrgreat Tue 27-Aug-13 17:12:07

MrsTP I just see you naming the problem. arsenaltilidie is doing is a false equivalence. Men are not an oppressed group. Immigrants are. Requoting you using an oppressed group is a false equivalence. If he had requoted you using white people on black people then yes it would be equivalent and it would be naming the problem, just like you did MrsTP.

TheDoctrineOfPositivityYes Tue 27-Aug-13 19:56:33

Hi arsenal

Is any grown man who goes PHWOARR to the Britney Spears "Hit Me Baby One More Time" a paedophile?

blueemerald Wed 28-Aug-13 10:37:52

When judges keep saying things like 'victim Morales (a 14 year school girl who was abused by her teacher and has since committed suicide) was "as much in control of the situation" as Rambold' (the abusive teacher) it's no wonder society's opinion isn't shifting any faster.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/stacy-rambold-raped-suicidal-student_n_3822640.html

arsenaltilidie Wed 28-Aug-13 18:39:53

theDoct err because Britney Spears is not a school pupil.

Bluee Funny how if you scroll down the list, most of the teachers who commit these crimes are women.

TheDoctrineOfPositivityYes Wed 28-Aug-13 19:18:55

Hi arsenal

Why do you think she is dressed as a school girl in that video, then?

She was 16 when the video was released.

BasilBabyEater Wed 28-Aug-13 21:27:39

Lots of 16 year olds still have to wear school uniforms.

And why is it OK to phwoar over an older woman dressed as a school girl? Why has a school uniform been a staple of porn and nudge nudge wink wink popular culture ever since girls started wearing them?

Funny how if you scroll down the list, most of the teachers who commit these crimes are women. Yeah, funny that. Do you think, considering the staggering, overwhelming likelihood that a sex offender will be a man, there might be some bias in the reporting there too? Or do you genuinely think that more sex offenders are women than men at which point I'm out because I don't argue with people without the mental capacity to reason?

arsenaltilidie Thu 29-Aug-13 18:10:26

The common sxhool fantasy doesn't interest me, Just like some women fantasy about rape etc. Fantasies are a whole thread.
A woman dressed in a school uniform is different to a child dressed in school uniform.
In real life, there is no situation I can think of where one can 'confuse' the two.

I was being ironic about how a link about male teacher abuser is actually full of female abusers who also ironically got a slep on the wrist.

I was being ironic.
It's not only men that are abusers.

AnyFucker Thu 29-Aug-13 18:17:46

It's not only men that are abusers.

House !

TheDoctrineOfPositivityYes Thu 29-Aug-13 18:26:10

Hi arsenal

You have stated that anyone who is 16 and under is a child.
You have stated that a grown man who goes Phwoar at school children is a paedophile.
Britney Spears was 16 in that video.
So are grown men who went Phwoar at it paedophiles?

arsenaltilidie Sun 01-Sep-13 07:37:10

In real life, there is no situation I can think of where one can 'confuse' two
I can't think of a real life situation other than some pop video.

BasilBabyEater Sun 01-Sep-13 10:04:54

So it's OK to go phwoar if it's a 16 year old in a pop video, but not if it's a 16 year old on her way to school?

<Incredulous> confused

curlew Sun 01-Sep-13 10:17:21

this makes interesting reading. Sorry if everyone's read it before.

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