Despicable me 2

(53 Posts)
NoComet Tue 06-Aug-13 15:59:48

I'm I the only person who was disappointed that the women spy/love interest was so stupidly thin.

cheeseandchive Tue 06-Aug-13 21:25:45

If there were 10 female characters and they were all thin, I think I would understand. But why shouldn't she be thin? Tall and thin is a body shape that many, many women have. Why are you disappointed?

Pootles2010 Tue 06-Aug-13 21:27:25

I don't have problem with thin? If she was sexualised, yes. Thin is just...thin though? Can't see issue tbh.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 06-Aug-13 21:28:45

I am tall and stupidlyhmm thin. I don't understand why you see this body type as problematic to feminism.confused

stylenadlife Wed 07-Aug-13 00:07:24

Would you be happy if she had a 60 inch waist like el macho?

I have no issue with it.

NoComet Wed 07-Aug-13 00:29:19

I guess it was just really stereo typed. Fat ugly bald guy gets beautiful thin girl because he is interesting.

Round women were just comic bit parts.

I know it's only a cartoon and I think the stereo typing was a deliberate joke for adults, but having two DDs it still made me faintly annoyed she didn't look a bit less like a thin bendy stick of blue chewing gum in ridiculous heels

stylenadlife Wed 07-Aug-13 00:35:57

Lucy became attracted to Gru in the first place because he stole the moon. Maybe she likes "bad boys"?

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 07-Aug-13 01:54:18

Thin and angular don't mean beautiful any more than fat and round or oval and weird. Or any other woman's look. OP, I think you're overthinking this.

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 07-Aug-13 01:55:16

Or you have a problem with tall, thin, angular womensmile

MasterOfTheYoniverse Wed 07-Aug-13 02:27:31

Am with stylenadlife. Feisty redheads likes bad boy types.

LeStewpot Wed 07-Aug-13 10:17:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 07-Aug-13 10:43:40

I can see what you're saying op - she wasn't just thin - she made a barbie doll look natural and in proportion!

On the other hand I loved her - she was so cool, she had the best gizmos much better than James Bond and she was equally heroic as the bloke iirc.

I'm much more disturbed by my dd wanting to watch things like winx club, where young school age girls have impossibly tiny waists, are dolled up in ridiculous outfits and way too girly and silly imo.

It got my 3 year old interested in lipstick....
I had more of an issue with how disposable the minions were. He didn't care that they were purple and evil, he only went back when the heroine was in trouble. It's a class thing. grin

smokinaces Wed 07-Aug-13 12:03:54

My friend was delighted with her looking like she did. Because she looks exactly like her. Everyone has seen the film and then messaged her saying "Oh my god, Lucy is YOU!!" - and she loves that finally her figure and character and stuff has been made popular in a film.

Not all females are curvy and petite. Some are thin and tall and gangly and clumsy. And sometimes portraying that can make their day.

Splitheadgirl Wed 07-Aug-13 20:29:25

I haven't seen the film, but if the female character is thin then that's great. I have Marfan's and so am almost six feet tall and a size eight. I look skinny, gangly and very VERY thin, even after three children nothing changed....I have had so many comments over the years as if I am a complete weirdo that I think it is cool to have this shape represented in some small way.

NoComet Wed 07-Aug-13 20:36:20

Ok so perhaps I'm over thinking this, but there does seem to be a terrible tendency for thin to equal good, and 'bedable' for want of a better term and fat to equal funny or bad. The male villain makes Gru look thin.

NoComet Wed 07-Aug-13 20:38:25

And I want a minion, but I think it would be like having a two year old DD1 again and my nerves aren't up to that.

VeryDullNameChange Wed 07-Aug-13 20:44:25

She's not just Barbie doll shaped though - she's got a very exaggerated elongated pear shape. I rather like it - she looks like I would if you stretched me on a rack.

KaseyM Wed 07-Aug-13 20:48:59

I don't think you're overthinking it. If it were just one movie then yeah maybe it wouldn't matter - but it's most movies. Nothing wrong with tall thin women - but equally nothing wrong with short fat women but somehow they never seem to make the cut.

Fortunately for male characters no such criteria seems to be applied. So yeah, it sucks...

NumTumDeDum Wed 07-Aug-13 20:51:53

Gru - ugly and bald?! He's lovely!

My weird cartoon crush aside, I see what you're saying but I consider her actions and what they make her character do to be more important. She was very capable, and had an admirable character. I think it's more important to have strong positive female characters.

ashesgirl Wed 07-Aug-13 20:52:12

Definitely not overthinking it, OP. Those who say, well, some women are tall and thin so why shouldn't she be, are totally missing the point.

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 07-Aug-13 22:02:24

I think that feminism attributing the labels "good" or "bad" to female body types is spectacularly missing the point.

FannyFifer Wed 07-Aug-13 22:06:52

Dear god, seriously?

scallopsrgreat Wed 07-Aug-13 23:10:28

I don't think Star thinks that body types are good or bad, Dione. The opposite in fact. She is making the point that media images of women portray that. And she is right. I think feminists, on the whole (and at the risk of speaking for womankind hmm), would like to see an array of body shapes of women within films and media and if at all possible to actually stop focusing on what women look like in the first place.

Pretty much like men have it now.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 08-Aug-13 00:13:17

In our everyday media there are a range of female body types. Women of all shapes, sizes and ages appear in our most popular TV shows. There are as many female character actors as there are male in movies. Yes, starring female roles in movies tend to favour a body type, but they favour a male body type for their stars also.

And finally, DM2 is a cartoon. Not one of the body types of any of the characters is realistic. They are all of cartoon proportions.

scallopsrgreat Thu 08-Aug-13 09:13:03

No Dione that isn't true. The overwhelming images portrayed in media is of thin, attractive women. Men have much more leeway in that respect.

NoComet Thu 08-Aug-13 09:46:32

Scallops puts it much better than me.
Yes, leading ladies are alwas exactly the same Hollywood stereo type. Men sometimes, but not always.

Difficult for box office takings not to have a pretty girl to get the men to pay up.

However, in a cartoon you can create any character you like. It would be nice to see a bit more variety.

KaseyM Thu 08-Aug-13 09:58:08

Of course there isn't as wide a range of female body shapes in the media as there are for men. Even in chick flicks the protagonist is usually of a certain type.

And when she isn't skinny an issue is usually made of her weight problem.

In documentaries men can be complete munters and what we listen to is their opinion. If there's a female presenter who isn't hot to trot she gets abuse.

As for the number of female characters in movies you must be having a laugh. I recommend you look at the Geena Davis Institute for Women in the Media.

And to assert that feminism is framing thin women as bad is as ridiculous as it is divisive. Feminism is about promoting balance not issuing judgement. The question isn't "what's wrong with having slim pretty women in the media?" But "what's wrong with NOT having them?"

To be fair, l like it's changing in recent years but it's taking a bloody long time.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 08-Aug-13 13:09:19

Feminism is not about balance, nor is it about body shape, it is about equality and recognizing that women are as intelligent, driven and capable as men.

I grew up in the 70s and the female cartoon characters were pretty dire. Lucy in DM2 is none of those things. She is intelligent, capable and kick ass. Instead of celebrating this as a result for the feminist movement, the only thread here about it is criticizing her body type.

Starball, you say you would like to see more variety in the way characters are drawn. What would you like to see, shorter and thin or more hourglass shapes?

NoComet Thu 08-Aug-13 13:32:26

Simply more variety and, since they don't have to use Hollywood clones less lazy stereotyping.

Less thin woman goodie, fat woman comical, just a bit of imagination in a medium that allows imagination.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 08-Aug-13 14:28:48

Lucy is a highly trained, super fit, kick ass spy with high flexibility. It stands to reason that she would be thin. Fat characters in Hollywood tend to be included for comical effect, regardless of gender.

For so long we have fought against seeing women as bodies. Feminism demanded that society stop focussing on women's image and urged us to look at the person underneath. The character is brilliant. The body shape shouldn't matter at all.

HoleyGhost Thu 08-Aug-13 15:01:15

<tries to imagine a plump male secret agent>

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 08-Aug-13 15:11:19

He had the desk job.grin

SirChenjin Thu 08-Aug-13 15:15:26

She was skinny, tall, average looking and had a fantastic career.

Nope, not getting your point at all OP hmm

maja00 Thu 08-Aug-13 15:16:33

Thin wasn't the issue for me, more that she was in ridiculous heels and a tiny dress the whole time!

grin It's a children's film, enjoy it and don't look into it so much!

ithaka Thu 08-Aug-13 15:32:47

What is wrong with being thin, athletic and fit? I think that is pretty aspirational actually. I don't want my daughters to be fat coach potatoes - a thin martial arts-expert secret-agent is much more the ticket.

She did not look like a Barbie doll - she was a skinny pear shape.

Do feminists really have to hate on thin, fit women? What about all those medal women olympic athletes - damn them for not being fat! Get real.

LeStewpot Sat 10-Aug-13 14:51:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ithaka Sat 10-Aug-13 15:01:24

Yes that is right, of course I will disown my daughters' if they are not tall and thin. Oh wait, I never said that at all, you are putting words into my mouth. I can hardly blame them if they aren't tall - I am only 5'1"!

I have been slim and fit all my life, so it is perfectly achievable and I think a reasonable aspiration to have for our children - childhood obesity is a genuine health issue and we should strive to encourage our children to be active and eat well.

Obviously people come in all shapes and sizes - I appreciate that more than most as I have horses and I know my native pony will never look like my Arab. However, we can all be fit and well within our body type - people and horses.

HoleyGhost Sat 10-Aug-13 18:49:07

Where does that 5% statistic come from? Carrying excess weight is not common everywhere.

SirChenjin Sat 10-Aug-13 19:35:17

Lestewpot - you do realise that this was a cartoon? For goodness sake get a grip and stop looking for issues where there aren't any.

scallopsrgreat Sat 10-Aug-13 23:04:14

Nobody hates thin women, ithaka. What a ridiculous statement to make. We are just recognising stereotypes. And getting tired of them. That is not a reflection on people who fit those stereotypes. It is a reflection on how society values and promotes those figures on women (and dresses them in ridiculous clothing by the sounds of it too). Cartoon characters can basically have any figure you want. It is not a coincidence that this woman was portrayed as tall and thin.

"Get a grip"

Bingo LeStewpot, your card is full hmm

LeStewpot Sun 11-Aug-13 09:58:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin Sun 11-Aug-13 15:03:12

Yep, that bingo card is full for good reasons.

scallopsrgreat Sun 11-Aug-13 20:40:16

Ooh you're back are you LeStewpot. Thought this might have been a flying visit. As you see, nothing much has changed <rolls eyes>.

SirChenjin Sun 11-Aug-13 20:48:54

No, nothing ever changes on the feminist board <rolls eyes>

enderwoman Sun 11-Aug-13 21:36:11

I was pleased that she didn't wear heavy make up as too many kids films suggest that attractive women wear lots of make up (especially lipstick).
I thought she was a great character. She liked Gru for his personality and became the object of his affection without wearing heavy make up, short skirt and high heels.

ITCouldBeWorse Sun 11-Aug-13 23:47:07

Well she had a bizarre and cartoonish body shape, as did gru.

I did think the heels were silly, but so was everything else in the film.

More importantly are there no female minions?

SirChenjin Mon 12-Aug-13 08:06:17

I always thought the minions were the cartoon equivalent of hermaphrodites - whatever that equivalent is grin

ITCouldBeWorse Mon 12-Aug-13 18:12:04

They are called Phil and Dave and Stuart - I cannot find one with a typically female name.

The drag up a lot though!

SirChenjin Mon 12-Aug-13 20:18:35

You are right - a quick google confirms that there are no female minions. Well I'll be blowed, I always saw them as non gender shock

They do drag up a lot as you say, that's probably why I didn't clock the Phil/Dave/Stuart thing!

ITCouldBeWorse Mon 12-Aug-13 21:33:08

I'm not sure if it is right on because they are minions rather than criminal master minds!

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