Seriously?

(64 Posts)
suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 16:05:45

There are actual websites called things like Ladies Against Feminism and Raising Homemakers? And people read them! Lots of people apparently as Raising Homemakers has 20 thousand likes on Facebook.

ImNotBloody14 Sat 20-Jul-13 16:16:48

Its so sad isnt it?

I saw a post on fb. Few days ago that read ' your husband will always be your biggest and oldest child that requires the most adult supervision'

I could cry, i really could.

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 16:32:57

Raising Homemakers has posts like Training the Undomestic Daughter, Raising Feminine Daughters and Raising Wives - plus the weekly link up of over a hundred blog pages. Just wow.

Got a strange fascination with the whole thing.

Then there is the blog Women Living Well with over 60 thousand likes on Facebook - Youtube videos about being a 50s wife, a stepford wife and teaching our daughters that homemaking has value.

Bunnylion Sat 20-Jul-13 16:46:46

I've yet to see one of these types of websites/groups that are not based on religious ideology.

PearlyWhites Sat 20-Jul-13 17:10:42

I am proud of being a homemaker and sahm.

tribpot Sat 20-Jul-13 17:14:53

But presumably you don't agree with the statement your husband will always be your biggest and oldest child that requires the most adult supervision, PearlyWhites? It's appallingly sexist for one thing.

As has been said repeatedly on this board, the problem is not raising women - or indeed men - to see SAHP as a valid choice, it's raising them to see it as the only choice.

TheFallenNinja Sat 20-Jul-13 17:31:39

I'm a homemaker and sahd. I work bloody hard for my family and still retain my own identity.

I'm proud of what I achieve.

TheFallenNinja Sat 20-Jul-13 17:32:44

I'm certainly nobodies big child. These sites do frustrate me.

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 17:36:29

"When you’re running errands, are you preaching that mothering children and keeping the home is an honorable profession, something worth getting dressed nicely for and tackling with a smile on your face because you know your labor is not in vain? Or are you confirming the popular idea that housewifery turns you into a slovenly, unkempt, aged and ragged woman?"

Eyesunderarock Sat 20-Jul-13 17:42:42

'Or are you confirming the popular idea that housewifery turns you into a slovenly, unkempt, aged and ragged woman?"'

I tend to find that working turns me into a slovenly, unkempt ragged woman, old before her time.

PearlyWhites Sat 20-Jul-13 17:43:17

No tribpot I don't agree with that statement

EATmum Sat 20-Jul-13 17:50:18

Surely they can't be for real. Sigh

nooka Sat 20-Jul-13 17:52:36

I'm teaching both my children that looking after your home and family is a necessary part of life, and I hope giving them a few useful skills. So I suppose I am in some ways 'raising homemakers'. I just don't discriminate between my son and daughter, and I certainly have no intention of infantalising my dh (who does more than his fair share of homemaking in any case).

I have a dd with some quite 'butch' tendencies and my ds is currently an out and out brony. I am rather pleased that they both like pushing the stereotypes.

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 18:14:27

Sites like that seem to put a lot of pressure on women.

Eyesunderarock Sat 20-Jul-13 18:31:14

Sounds good nook, being a homemaker should not be defined by gender.

Eyesunderarock Sat 20-Jul-13 18:31:51

nooka.
I have no idea what happened to the a in my last post. smile

NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 18:54:30

Great site grin

"Painting a picture of biblical femininity"

Super grin

NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 18:55:29

I like this:

"My little girls were sitting playing dolls on the floor together when the 6yo came up to me and said, “Mom, you’ve just got to sew us a prince for our dolls!”

To which I replied, “You know, I really, really need to do that–your princesses need a prince!” She immediately ran over to her sisters and proclaimed, “Mom says she’s going to make us a prince!” and they all squealed.

It was one of those moments that could have slipped past me–just a normal part of our every-day lives–until I realized the profundity of the whole scenario.

While we are sitting around as a family, reading the Bible aloud or watching a movie together in the evening, I am usually sewing on something, something for my little girls, or mending some jeans for my boys, or crocheting doilies for the furniture. " etc etc and so on.

NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 18:55:51

Oooh

"There are many types of homes, but I think the best of these is where a woman presides as a benevolent monarch in the fashion of Jesus, as the servant of all."

I am loving this site.
Thank you OP grin

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 19:00:06

It's just sad. sad

I will just add though that I'm a Christian and a feminist.

There is actually a book out called "how to feed your husband" I think it's about being a good little wifey hmm

OddSockMonster Sat 20-Jul-13 19:00:17

But I like being unkempt, it's one of the best bits of being a SAHP.

Bonkers sites, they really are. No idea they had such a following though.

NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 19:04:00

The ladies against feminism site is less hilariously bonkers and more utterly terrifying. Just in case anyone was thinking of going over there for a laugh.

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 19:09:49
NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 19:38:48

Good grief to me it's just all totally nutso.

My next door neighbours live this way and when they talk about it with me I never know WTAF to say! I tend to stick to non-committal "hmmm" noises.

grimbletart Sat 20-Jul-13 20:00:42

Personally I think these are the sites to turn to you need a really good spit coffee over your keyboard laugh grin

Nothing like a load of Stepford wackos to feed one's sense of the ridiculous.

Thurlow Sat 20-Jul-13 20:16:28

See, I'm actually a little torn on this - because there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be a SAHM, or to enjoy cooking, cleaning and sewing, or to like wearing skirts. So there's a huge core of what some of these blogs are saying which to me is pretty much fine, it's just one woman making her point and explaining her interests in the same way as a blog by a rugby-playing, finance-working single woman stridently advocating her interests and ideals isn't wrong either.

Now I agree that I think a lot of what some of these blogs are saying is absolutely bollocks (DP and I both would still benefit from adult supervision grin) but... I wonder if part of the 'bleurgh' reaction to blogs like these a ridiculing of anything seen as traditionally feminine?

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 20:23:00

Maybe it is a traditional femininity thing.

"Book One is Personal Help for Girls - Nurturing a Sweet and Virtuous Spirit. Who wouldn't want a sweet and virtuous spirit? I certainly do! The book covers subjects like feminine personality, Christian character, being capable and female responsibilities.

Book Two is called Preparing Your Hope Chest - Building a Foundation of Godly Character for Tomorrow's Mothers. A foundation of Godly character is just what I am looking for! This book is all about different skills to learn including knitting, embroidery, cooking, cleaning and frugality. I am already working on some of these but it certainly is helpful to have them all written down in a book!"

Thurlow Sat 20-Jul-13 20:32:18

I wonder if that's the problem. Traditionally feminine roles have in the past few decades mainly been embraced more by religious communities, so the idea of actually wanting to be a 'homemaker' is getting confused with being a more submissive wife etc. If I'm managing to make that make any sense at all?

I wonder if part of the 'bleurgh' reaction to blogs like these a ridiculing of anything seen as traditionally feminine?

For me it's the idea that they are raising daughters to follow in their footsteps. I think adult women should be whatever they want to be but children should be shown many options of how their life could be and be given some choice. A lot of women in these kinds of marriages home educate so their children have such a limited outlook.

Thurlow Sat 20-Jul-13 20:45:13

Yes, akiss, I completely agree with that point. All children should be encouraged to do whatever they want to do, be that pink toy dolls or a football crazy.

suchawimp Sat 20-Jul-13 20:54:16

The scary bit is the stay at home daughters - raised and trained to be wives and mothers and then ...... no perfect husband drops from the sky.

MamaMary Sat 20-Jul-13 20:59:30

Can i also say that I am a Christian and a feminist.

The ideology in these blogs makes me mad. It's not Christianity, it's a twisted, male-centric, patriarchal ideology where women are forced into specific, so-called (but not) 'Biblical' roles. It must be so stifling to be a female born into that culture. Mind you, there are many, many cultures around the world where women are equally limited.

TunipTheVegedude Sat 20-Jul-13 22:07:34

Oh dear.
And if you think this is bad you should see the Christian Domestic Discipline sites....

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 22:13:04

What mamamary said.

tribpot Sat 20-Jul-13 22:20:42

Does Domestic Discipline involve not leaving your washing out on the line overnight?

Thurlow Sat 20-Jul-13 22:22:23

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone who is religious. In my very limited experience, there is a very small minority of very religious families who go in for the stereotypical homemaking stuff on those blogs, and do the overly patriachal society too, and I was wondering if that was skewing things. And yes, turnip, that stuff is shocking sad

SinisterSal Sat 20-Jul-13 22:54:24

More like Beating Your Wife The Godly Way, tribpot

Thing is the 'housewifely arts' are important, & useful, and are real skills. It's just a pity all that has been co-opted into the entire submission-package.

NiceTabard Sat 20-Jul-13 23:39:53

My neighbours do modest dressing for the females, with appropriate household rules, and the man utilised "physical chastisement" on the children.

I once went round with some kind of document that needed witnessing and she wrung her hands and said "oh but that is the sort of thing that DH should do" and I kind of gave her a look and a smile and she did it. But she wasn't happy about it.

It all creeps me out. This isn't new though, their children are late teens / adults now and we are in leafy north london suburb confused

Mind you we seem to do quite well for fairly extreme religious groups round here so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. There must be something in the air <scared>

nooka Sun 21-Jul-13 05:26:11

Domestic arts are indeed important, useful and for some people very enjoyable. it's not just the submission link that bothers me but also the 'wife' bit. This sort of attitude forces girls to assume a role they may be very unhappy with and denies it to boys who may miss out on something they would otherwise really enjoy. I really hate the 'equal but different' type ideologies because they deny us all our individuality.

suchawimp Sun 21-Jul-13 08:16:02

Still digging around on the blogs -

home-keepinghearts.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/fascinating-girl.html

This sounds like a scary book ..... Domestic goddess? Angelic Qualities?

RhondaJean Sun 21-Jul-13 08:24:47

This sounds like the shite I was brought up with.

And although DH is possibly more of a feminist than me, having been raised by a single mother, I still find it hard to let go of the guilt of not living up to the ideals, like if the house is messy I take it as MY failing. I'm working hard on it!

I'm 36 btw with a reasonably well paying career and several degrees under my belt. It's just if you get that engrained into you as a child, you live with it forever.

And I present this monstrosity for your reading:

vionnaswatching.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/capable-wife/

Poor Lydia.

suchawimp Sun 21-Jul-13 18:30:19

I wonder if they are happy. It all sounds a bit odd to me but they might really love their roles and what they do.

The blogs just seem so happy all the time. I know it is probably just not showing the bad stuff but I could be kinda jealous if I thought about it. It must be comforting to have total faith and to have a set role.

LRDYaDumayuIThink Sun 21-Jul-13 18:52:53

I would like to think (at least) that these women were happy too.

And obviously some of them may be. But I know a woman who is now a writer of one of these blogs - she's not especially explicit about being anti-feminist, but she is very keen to insist that women are different from men and get the most out of being perfect, devoted wives. It is perfectly obvious she isn't happy, and I worry about her a lot.

There is nothing at all wrong with enjoying homemaking or bringing up your children or whatever. There is a huge amount wrong with feeling as if your entire sense of self-worth depends on you moulding yourself into a person who lives to look after your husband and your children (in that order).

NiceTabard Sun 21-Jul-13 19:09:57

The blog linked at the top said that women as well as doing the home-maker role, had to do it while looking well presented and smiling.

So given that, it's pretty impossible to tell, I think.

Thurlow Sun 21-Jul-13 19:12:25

God, Rhonda, that blog's unbelievably depressing sad

YoniBottsBumgina Sun 21-Jul-13 19:17:55

The idea of women as "the servant of all" ... nice. Really nice.

kooksi Sun 21-Jul-13 19:18:36

Raising homemakers is very important, I make my kids do housework everyday .. they're all boys though, that site is extremely sexist!

scallopsrgreat Sun 21-Jul-13 19:19:17

"But I like being unkempt, it's one of the best bits of being a SAHP." That made me lol grin I must agree. One of the joys of being on maternity leave was that no one gave a toss what you looked like.

I agree LRD and hope these women are happy. I can't help but feel that there are bucket loads of cognitive dissonance going on.

suchawimp Sun 21-Jul-13 19:22:50

It just seems like a quaint idea ..... in theory!

The homekeepers heart one is English which was a shocka - thought this was an american thing tbh. All charity stuff and gardens and a book called sacred singleness.

The women living well one is a big glossy looking site - lots of stay away from worldliness and 50s housewife stuff.

LRDYaDumayuIThink Sun 21-Jul-13 19:38:46

scallops I'm absolutely certain there is a bucket load of cognitive dissonance going on. sad

NeedlesCuties Sun 21-Jul-13 21:23:53

I'm a Christian, and I am a SAHM. My DH is training to become a Minister.

I do want the best for my household - want washing done, nice food cooked, kids to do worthwhile activities etc. But, it isn't out of some sort of desire to please my DH, but for the good for all of us. We're a team, an equal team who play to our strengths.

I have read lots of those blogs, and am boggled at some of what I read. One of the worst said that it's a good thing to teach DD's to do house chores, but to not teach DS's to do chores as once they are adults they'll have wives to do that. shock I don't agree at all!

I do have my own blog (PM if you'd like the address), but really there is a bit about my Christian faith and a lot about my descent into PND and my superb musical tastes of Meatloaf, Metallica and Ani Di Franco grin

suchawimp Mon 22-Jul-13 19:01:38

Is it common and popular in England then?

New post on the raising homemakers blog raisinghomemakers.com/2013/bring-it-on-home/

"Home is a natural greenhouse for feminine industry, a place for women to thrive in business and still embrace the calling of home life. Blisters are still made. Struggle and toil still happen and hearts are still broken. Income is still earned and bills still paid. But the rewards are unfathomably greater and the success sweeter.

The women here don’t have time for meaningless gossip and water cooler chats, because they have a foundation of purpose and a far reaching vision. They are more than just wage slaves, they have the freedom to take risk."

MamaMary Mon 22-Jul-13 19:35:54

No, I don't think this is at all common in England. I am au fait with evangelical and conservative circles and it is not the norm. My fear and concern is that it will spread here from the States, though.

suchawimp Mon 22-Jul-13 19:50:46

Do you think it could spread?

I could imagine it getting popular in some super conservative groups where this is another step more strict for them but can't picture large numbers following it.

Stay at home daughter blogs are my new fascination!

NeedlesCuties Tue 23-Jul-13 08:37:49

I think in USA there's a lot more of an acceptance on home-education, sending kids to huge churches which are more like small villages and then sending them to Christian universities.

Here in the UK, the churches are smaller, women work and want to work, and there isn't the same conservative slant on staying home.

By that I mean: a sizeable amount of women here stay home with kids, but that's to save money and to bring up kids. It isn't as some sort of 'keep away from the world' self-preservation as it seems to be on those blogs.

suchawimp Wed 24-Jul-13 17:44:27

I was wondering what life was like for a daughter in these families. Must be tough with all the rules and looking after young children no moaning on the blogs though.

Day in the life of a Stay At Home Daughter post http://raisinghomemakers.com/2011/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-stay-at-home-daughter/ all seems very quaint.

also a post about being single and i suppose old in the movement http://home-keepinghearts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/single-and-27.html

Is early marriage encouraged?

NiceTabard Wed 24-Jul-13 21:13:49

I think this is just a modern take on religious fundamentism isn't it?

Like I say, our neighbours do this (christian).

I also live in a part of London which has some closed religious communities (of various flavours) and I am sure that this is the score there.

In the UK it is going on but maybe not always from the same source (christian) and not so vocally.

UptoapointLordCopper Thu 25-Jul-13 14:59:47

shock at the stay-at-home-daughter.

"Washing the dishes and prepping the kitchen is usually my first stop, truly my favorite household ritual." I hope you are all reading this and learning from it. The first one who volunteers to do my dishes now (having made a pile of pecan and chocolate bread sticks) gets 10 brownie points. grin

<< still trying to figure out what home-making skill (apart from motivation) I'm lacking since I didn't spend all my life studying it... >>

SconeRhymesWithGone Thu 25-Jul-13 16:15:36

I just want to point out that this level of separation and hyper-glorification of the woman-at-home is still considered very extreme in the States. The problem, though, is that Christian fundamentalism exists on a spectrum, and at its other end, there are elements that espouse less radical, and therefore more palatable, anti-feminist doctrines that find their way into political discourse on a regular basis. Much of the current “war on women” in the US is fueled by more mainstream religious conservatism. And I fear that the appeal of the more extreme views may make further inroads through social media, the internet, and television (the Duggars.)

MamaMary Thu 25-Jul-13 19:59:49

Interesting, Scone; are you in the States?

ballroompink Thu 25-Jul-13 20:32:57

Not at all common in the UK at that level thankfully. Obviously there are plenty of Christian women over here who would identify with some of the stuff posted on those blogs but blogs like Ladies Against Feminism are the work of fundamentalists and extremely conservative, almost cult-like groups of churches. They teach a total distortion of gender roles; even a lot of conservative Christians wouldn't agree with much of it.

SconeRhymesWithGone Thu 25-Jul-13 21:12:30

MamaMary Yes, I am American and in the States.

NiceTabard Thu 25-Jul-13 21:17:54

I wouldn't be so sure that it's not at all common in the UK.

In the US it is quite normal for people to talk about their religious beliefs, and to be very enthusiastic and open and loud and proud about whatever it is they are doing.

Over here religion is considered generally to be a much more personal thing and also people tend to be more reticent about what they are up to.

Like I say there are two local religious communities who follow this stuff but they keep themselves to themselves and so people don't have to think about what is going on with them IYSWIM.

So while it might present differently here it's still going on, and with a variety of faiths.

suchawimp Sat 27-Jul-13 13:19:20

Maybe that is it - people in the UK just don't talk about it.

Only seen 2 UK blogs though out of all the ones I have seen linked up on the raising homemakers site.

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