Keeping the speed limit at 70

(58 Posts)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Trills Sat 22-Jun-13 11:48:06

What are the arguments for raising the speed limit vs keeping it the same?

Is there any evidence that it would be safer, or that it would help people to get where they are going faster without being any less safe? Or is there a compromise, and it would be less safe, but some people think it's an acceptable amount of change?

I am imagining here that the generalisation is that women care more about safety

The question is whether they are saying:
1 - women care more about safety and would not be happy with the compromise
2 - women care more about safety and would be worried that this is less safe even though it isn't

Trills Sat 22-Jun-13 11:48:39

You could say that it's insulting to men, if they are saying "men like to drive fast and don't really think about safety as being important because they imagine it ^won't happen to them^"

Trills Sat 22-Jun-13 11:49:44

All political decisions about how to appeal to different demographics of voters are based on generalisations. The insultingness of those generalisations varies...

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 11:52:01

I'm guessing there must be evidence that women as a group are less in favour of the speed limit being raised than men as a group are.

Anyone know?

Trills Sat 22-Jun-13 12:17:25

I didn't even know it was being suggested so I'm no use!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rufus43 Sat 22-Jun-13 13:32:23

The times headline says "female votes put the brake on 80mph speed limit" which suggests that we have already voted no.

yamsareyammy Sat 22-Jun-13 13:38:58

Well, I am definitely in a household where I want it to stay the same, and DH wants it raised.
A study of 1 .
There are boy racers.
Are there girl racers?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Sat 22-Jun-13 13:52:41

I think what irritates me is that they've focussed on the male/female thing, whether at the level of researching likely voters' opinions or at the level of the media reports, when I would bet that age differences give more significant differences of opinion.

NiceTabard Sat 22-Jun-13 13:53:09

Yes there are girl racers.

I find that pronouncement a bit odd.

Judging by the people I know of my parents generation, surely another headline could be "Older drivers put brakes on 80mph". And older voters are very important to the tories.

NiceTabard Sat 22-Jun-13 13:53:28

xposts!

NiceTabard Sat 22-Jun-13 13:55:13

I think they've assumed that women won't want higher speed limits due to often having kids in the car.

So for "women" they have assumed "housewife / part time person who does the school run by car".

And have totally forgotten that women come in lots of other formats, and that most people don't go on the motorway to do the school run. That's my guess anyway.

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EdgarAllanPond Sat 22-Jun-13 13:57:43

possibly they'll have done a study to see how it polled.

you know, evidence based vote currying with no regard for actual right or wrong.

modern politics.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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EdgarAllanPond Sat 22-Jun-13 14:03:25

public opposition would not have much evidential base either.

there has been a reduction in traffic due to the downturn, a reduction in motorway actual speed due to the high cost of fuel (doing 70+ throws fuel out of the window in my car..)...

and no reduction in the number of accidents.

if a government actually wanted to bring it down further they'd look at road design, not just speed limits.

MiniTheMinx Sat 22-Jun-13 14:05:59

I'm with Malenky on this. Would it not have been better to have considered age, income and whether people who travel on motorways regularly for work would be in favour of higher speed limits than say, people who use the motorway at the weekend with children as passengers.

I used to drive a lot for work and thought nothing of doing 80+ I stopped driving at silly speeds after I had DS1. For some reason it hadn't occurred to me that other cars would be carrying children until after I had mine. Selfish really. Nothing to do with gender, everything to do with how much respect and consideration for others not just ourselves.

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 14:19:05

Road design isn't responsible for most accidents.

The majority are caused by human error. Every time there's a fatality, road engineers are caused in to check whether it's anything to do with the road that might have caused the collision. That's (one of the reasons) why road traffic collisions cost the country a small fortune.

You can't engineer out tiredness, stress, momentarily loss of concentration, aggression, risk-taking or simple error - misjudging the speed or distance of another vehicle, for example.

Road safety practitioners talk about the 3 E's - education, enforcement and engineering. Engineering is not the solution to most road safety problems - it's only the solution to a very small minority.

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 14:20:41

called in, sorry

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StickEmUpPunk Sat 22-Jun-13 14:30:09

I can't see a higher limit being a problem really as I got up to 80 while on a supervised motorway lesson while overtaking.
We did slow down again!
Point being, does 70 mean 80 is okay, therefore 80 limit would mean 90 is okay?

I don't really understand why it would alienate women, the point made upthread about what do women think, safty first etc... dunno.

I dont travel on motorways much so interested in what the regs think.

Myself, I have a very underpowered car and on the dual carriage way I either sit behind slow cars at 40 on the inside unable to pull out as there are so many 70 mph's on the outside lane.
A gap would be nice!!

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 14:33:47

Yes LF, I was responding to Edgar's post. smile

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 14:34:40

I'm wondering why the massive generalisation is occurring?

Is there actually any research that says that women in general are less in favour of upping motorway speed limit?

Or is it just an assumption?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NiceTabard Sat 22-Jun-13 15:29:17

How are they intending to enforce it?
What of the fact that speedometers aren't 100% accurate so a speedo showing 80 could actually be doing 81?
All it will actually mean is everyone will drive 10mph faster than they were before and a small % of them will get caught as before.
Seems like an odd thing to do.

Startail Sat 22-Jun-13 15:34:10

Fuck, so now we are getting the blame for the government not having the courage to make the law what everyone, men and women do anyway.

Honestly is there nothing that isn't women's fault angry

EdgarAllanPond Sat 22-Jun-13 16:21:40

"Road design isn't responsible for most accidents. "

then why are there accident blackspots?

you say 'driver error' - some bits of road make it really easy for drivers to make errors.

Rufus43 Sat 22-Jun-13 16:56:06

Lunatic fringe, sorry I know that it's the gov proposal that's been dropped because they are worried that they will lose woman's votes. I did read the article.

My point ( not very well made!) was that the headline suggested that it was a done deal because women had voted no

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BasilBabyEater Sat 22-Jun-13 20:20:36

Most accidents don't happen on "accident blackspots" though.

They happen on normal bits of road.

They are due to driver error.

stargirl1701 Sat 22-Jun-13 20:47:10

I find it patronising. And, wrong. I am a woman and I would support raising the motorway speed limit to 80,

GrimmaTheNome Sat 22-Jun-13 21:01:01

Its bizarre. Under the 'Female votes put the brake on 80mph speed limit' - which before I'd read the piece I assumed meant there'd been a vote in one of the Houses which (somehow, despite their low numbers) had been swayed by women - there are stats from an AA survey of 13,000 drivers. 63% were in favour of increasing the limit to 80 including 73% men and 53% women, with 43% of women thinking the limit should remain at 70mph. So... the majority of women drivers are in favour of the 80 limit. Of course, we don't know from that what the opinions of non-drivers are. Maybe there's a lot of women non-drivers with husbands who insist on driving at 10mph above the limit whatever it is.

I'd take a small bet that if women were surveyed on speed limits, they would be quite relaxed about the motorway limit but much more concerned about enforcing 30 limits in built up areas and 20mph school zones - reducing the number of child casualties.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeeBawBabbity Sat 22-Jun-13 23:19:41

This was discussed on weekend women's hour today. The female racing driver they interviewed pointed out that the majority of women were in favour of change. Her point was ignored, I guess it's better (from a media perspective) to have someone to blame. Sigh.

sashh Sun 23-Jun-13 07:16:16

Yes not raising the speed limit would deter women voters.

Completely refusing to even consider banning 'The Sun' from sale in parliament while there is page 3 pics - that's not going to lose any female votes is it?

Trills Sun 23-Jun-13 10:32:55

stargirl just because you would support it does not mean that they are wrong that on average women voters may not support it.

TabithaStephens Sun 23-Jun-13 13:28:18

What would be the point of banning the Sun from sale in Parliament?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

specialsubject Sun 23-Jun-13 14:15:00

perhaps more women have studied science and know that drag goes up as square of speed.

anyone who drives at 80 or who favours that being the limit needs to stop whining about the cost of fuel.

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Animation Mon 24-Jun-13 08:56:48

Yes it is patronising. I consider myself a nifty good female driver, but I confess that I do get irritated with slow over cautious female drivers - and there seems more around than men. So the attitude to women in this case may be justified - and probably evidence based ..in my experience anyway.

RoooneyMara Mon 24-Jun-13 09:12:40

well being female and a driver of some 18 years, as well as a motorcyclist I don't want the limit raised. JMO.

I avoid motorways as it is, far too bloody fast.

SirChenjin Mon 24-Jun-13 09:19:09

Has anyone written to the Dept of Transport asking for clarification?

notcitrus Mon 24-Jun-13 09:21:49

I'd bet they've ditched the proposal for a number of reasons based on research and focus groups etc. The question is why is only part of the female vs male opinion being reported.

Sadly it seems that people read/remember articles with male vs female headlines, no matter what the content. I don't see how we can get misleading headlines banned...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin Mon 24-Jun-13 09:54:23

Without asking the DofT for clarification it's all conjecture.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin Mon 24-Jun-13 10:56:07

Email them for clarification?

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SirChenjin Mon 24-Jun-13 11:17:39

At least then you would know for sure what they are basing their plans on

EmmelineGoulden Mon 24-Jun-13 13:55:04

I don't think it's likely but I can see another scenario - There could be more complexity to the decision, such as a rise might be expected to increase road deaths or environmental damage and women might be known to be politically sensitive to those outcomes(*). So even of they said they were happy with an 80 limit in a simple survey about driving, they might still be expected to be turned off the Conservatives if the rise went ahead because of some of the outcomes of such a policy.

Also, even if the is a poll showing women 60% in favour, when it comes to polling for politicians, they are really only interested in potential voters for their party, so can discount all the women who would never vote or never vote Tory. Still seems like sloppy communication or a blame-the-women-instead-of-highlighting-differences-between-ministers mentality is a more likely explanation.

*I do not know if raising the NSL would have those outcomes, or if women are more politically sensitive to safety and environmental policies it's just an example of the way indirect priorities might impact this decision.

eurozammo Mon 24-Jun-13 14:02:05

I saw a news report which said I think that 53% of women supported the change and 73% of men. So I think that stat is what led to women being blamed for this, even though in fact a majority want the change regardless of gender!

GrimmaTheNome Mon 24-Jun-13 17:46:11

>I saw a news report which said I think that 53% of women supported the change and 73% of men.

That's what I quoted below - the survey was only of drivers, I'm not sure if there has been a poll of the population at large.

specialsubject Mon 24-Jun-13 19:53:01

lunaticfringe - perhaps just the ignorant have been alienated?

anyone who doesn't know that going faster uses more fuel should be quite ashamed of how thick they are. Basic science.

no, that doesn't mean we all drive around at 10mph, but there is no need for the motorway limit to be raised. The UK's roads are too congested for it to make a difference.

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