Fucking hell, Nigella picture, WTF? [includes links to upsetting images]

(523 Posts)
BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 22:51:33

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/346017840106704898/photo/1

Tomorrow's Sunday People cover. Where do we even start with this?

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 22:51:49
KenDoddsDadsDog Sat 15-Jun-13 22:53:18

I'm shocked

PareyMortas Sat 15-Jun-13 22:54:35

Poor Nigella.

DiscoDonkey Sat 15-Jun-13 22:56:24

God that's awful. She doesn't even looked shocked just sad.

Trills Sat 15-Jun-13 22:56:39

I am very much hoping that a fraction of a second after clicking the camera the photographer was doing something useful here... (and feeling bad about his/her first reaction being to take the picture)

LostInWales Sat 15-Jun-13 22:57:06

Well if, IF, it is a real picture then hopefully it will be the moment she realises it's time to get out.

OR she was saying to him 'do you think my glands are up' and the papparazzi were intrusive enough to snap a photo of someone in their own home.

Does anyone know the journalistic standards of People, do they normally have alien abduction stories or are they rigorous in their vetting?

Poor Nigella. She's someone you imagine having a perfect life now, despite her terrible tragedies earlier in her life.

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 22:57:50

Wow. I hope the public nature of this helps her realise the severity and get away now.

I hope it enables other women in a similar position to see it is a crime that does happen to other nice women.

I hope saatchi spends some time in prison .

LalyRawr Sat 15-Jun-13 22:59:22

Reading the twitter feed under the picture it wasn't in her own home, it was on the balcony of a restaurant.

Makes it worse somehow. If he treats her like that in public, what's it like at home?

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 22:59:38

I was wondering if it was a real picture too, but even if it isn't, it's still incredible to put this on the cover of a paper.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 15-Jun-13 23:01:20

I don't think that was the first time he has done something like that. There is something resigned on her face.

How absolutely awful sad

Awful. Poor woman. Why do women put up with this? She looks so ......... resigned.

X posts sad

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 15-Jun-13 23:02:22

sad

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:03:37

I feel this urge to go around there and whack him with a bloody picture.

tribpot Sat 15-Jun-13 23:03:41

What the actual fuck? If those photos depict a crime being committed (as they appear to) why are they publishing them instead of sending them to the police as evidence? Why on earth were they in a position to have taken them in the first place? Why would they want to invade the privacy of a victim of an (apparent) crime in such a horrific way?

I sincerely hope that Nigella is okay and that she and her family are safe and away from the vultures in the media.

There have been other pictures of them obviously rowing in a restaurant. It's horrible.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:05:55
ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:06:06

I could imagine another diner taking a sneaky celeb snap - maybe that is how it was taken,

I hope it goes to court. Utter piece of filth.

K8Middleton Sat 15-Jun-13 23:06:10

I can't decide what is more awful, being attacked by your husband or having it plastered all over the newspapers for our titiallation sad

Wheredidmyyouthgo Sat 15-Jun-13 23:06:20

Love Nigella. Very sad if this is what it seems to be sad

DramaAlpaca Sat 15-Jun-13 23:07:01

Poor Nigella.

What tribpot said ^^

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:08:07
ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:08:22

Ah, known to be inseparable. That's quite a well established isolation technique is it not?

Hand over her mouth while she speaks!!!!!!

Boffin that was the story I'd seen before. I'm guessing the Mail put the positive spin on it as a result of legal pressure but the pictures tell another story. She looks miserable.

Annunziata Sat 15-Jun-13 23:09:50

Oh God that is horrendous sad

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:10:23

Look in the gallery of pictures and see how the man grabs her neck and then pulls her nose upwards.

I hope he is fucking arrested.

LTB Nigella.

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:11:02

Not titillation I think, outrage at him, sympathy for her.

She needs to get out and divorce right now.

What a complete shit.

piprabbit Sat 15-Jun-13 23:11:47

Can't believe that anyone decided to take a series of photos rather than walking over and asking if she was OK.

EleanorFarjeon Sat 15-Jun-13 23:11:58

She doesn't exactly look upset - he may have been feeling her tonsils!

A literal snap shot - it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Kneedeepindaisies Sat 15-Jun-13 23:12:09

Poor Nigella. Awful to have to suffer this and have it all over the papers.

What a fucking prick this man is.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:12:30

K8, quite, I am just as shocked at the public nature of this but I do hope the police deal with it properly.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:13:02

Eleanor, see the link with the gallery set of pictures and it looks a lot meaner.

Seeing those second pictures I can't believe the restaurant didn't call the police. That's a sustained assault.
Doesn't the Mirror tell a familar story - she's happy, doing well and confident. He doesn't feel so great about himself so how can he control her - with his fists. I hope the police are on their way round right now to arrest him.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:13:38
ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:14:13

I think she looks pretty upset.
I'm upset looking at those photos.

If they were not married, I think you would see this was a violent assault.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:14:50

It's the one where he yanks up her nose that upsets me the most.

Methe Sat 15-Jun-13 23:15:50

What an absolute cunt.

It IS a violent assault.

Her family and friends are going to see those pictures. I hope they can find some strength to help her. I think she should leave but even for a famous and successful person that's very hard to do.

EleanorFarjeon Sat 15-Jun-13 23:18:05

Nope. Still not getting the outrage. He's holding her hand in many of the pictures. It could be interpreted in different ways imo. I wouldn't automatically assume something sinister.

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:18:06

If there is anything good to come of this (other than her ltb), I think it might be showing this can happen to nice women.

You know how if Liza Hurley and Jennifer Anniston could be cheated on, then anyone could without being to blame. Maybe this will be a step in altering perceptions?

Is it two women each week killed by partners and ex partners? well there is a little photo episode of how.

I hope she is safe tonight. I know it is a shame to have one's life splashed over the tabloids, but it is not her shameful act is it?

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:19:15

Holding someone's hand can be very controlling too.

What can look like a romantic whisper can be a terrifying threat.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:19:18

Look, it's awful either way. Either she's living with a violent man or her private life is being plastered everywhere, or even worse, both.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:20:01

Eleanore, what do you attribute the nose grabbing to?

PicklePants Sat 15-Jun-13 23:20:37

What a nasty piece of work. I hope he is dealt with by the police and that Nigella gets away from the sorry excuse for a human being.

Sickening.

Helpyourself Sat 15-Jun-13 23:21:31

sad
I'm afraid if he'll do that in public...
God, what an utter bastard.

Eleanor I've been married nearly 16 years, known my husband for 18. How many times do you think he's put his hand round my neck?

The answer is zero. There's never any need to do that. It's not open to interpretation. It's assault. You should be ashamed of yourself apologising for him.

Helpyourself Sat 15-Jun-13 23:22:56

Why wouldn't you think he's abusing her Eleanor? confused

PareyMortas Sat 15-Jun-13 23:23:22

I want to scoop her up and keep her safe. I hope her friends and family will support her.

scarletcrossbones Sat 15-Jun-13 23:23:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cocolepew Sat 15-Jun-13 23:24:31

Shocking, the look on her face sad

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:25:09

I think we're open to that possibility but we feel equally sorry if it's just that she's having her personal life plastered all over the papers for her kids to see.

Arisbottle Sat 15-Jun-13 23:25:12

I have seen other pictures that have highlighted his aggressive abusive picture. I hope she is OK.

EleanorFarjeon Sat 15-Jun-13 23:25:15

I just don't necessarily think it means something bad.

I went out for dinner with my dh last night and yanked a big black hair out of his nostril (because romance, clearly, is dead). Had we been paparazzi fodder, this could have made an interesting shot especially as he would have been caught looking momentarily tortured.

I sincerely hope Nigella isn't being throttled or abused by her husband, either in private or public. I just wouldn't assume the worst from a few pap shots taken over the course of a few seconds.

Fucking, fucking hell.

I feel terrible just looking at those. Utter bastard.

Wheredidmyyouthgo Sat 15-Jun-13 23:25:39

I hope Nigella LTB.

Really sad to see this, it is crystal clear what's happening when you see the series of pictures.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sat 15-Jun-13 23:26:10

I have been with dh for 30 years, not once has he done anything that could be "construed to look bad" like, y'know, putting his hands round my throat while having a public row.

Oh sure - when I get animated in conversation my hand always strays around my husband's THROAT leaving him visibly upset. CAn happen to anybody.

Look at the pictures, there are plants, there is a heater. He didn't think he would be snapped doing it - or and this is the really scary option - he didn't care. This is abuse. Why would anybody even want to make excuses for him.

tribpot Sat 15-Jun-13 23:28:47

So the options appear to be either the newspaper bought photos from someone who witnessed an assault taking place, or bought photos which appear to show this and printed the story to that effect, presumably hoping they wouldn't get sued until they'd wrung maximum publicity from the incident.

We certainly don't know which it is, but both options are in staggeringly poor taste and must be (at best) horribly upsetting for Nigella.

SuperiorCat Sat 15-Jun-13 23:28:52

Fucking hell, that is bloody awful. How must their children feel seeing him do that to her? Poor woman

PicklePants Sat 15-Jun-13 23:30:59

He's got his hand tightly round her throat - if that's not sinister I don't know what is. And Nigella is clearly distressed. I'm having difficulty coming up with a reasonable explanation for this.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight Sat 15-Jun-13 23:31:29

Those pictures have made me feel terrible. The two pap shots combined give only one answer IMO.hmm

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 15-Jun-13 23:33:42

Agreed it is not a one off shot where he appears to be punchin here but is actually giving her the Heinrich manoeuvre.

It appears to be several incidences where he silences her by putting his hand over her mouth, and where he repeatedly squeezes her throat.

That us not even a flash of violence is it? That is someone confident enough to feel they can get away with it, to control someone they are supposed to love with violence and the threat of more violence.

And he is 70! I wonder if he was better or worse as a younger man.

I really hope he serves time.

Amazinggg Sat 15-Jun-13 23:34:08

sad how awful that he knows he can do this and all the papers will say is things like 'explosive relationship' 'tempestuous' and the like, and allude to the fact they've both been married before as though it's somehow relevant. This (if it's how it looks) is a violent crime, and domestic violence by definition. And to read MNers looking for excuses for him is a bit shit tbh.

K8Middleton Sat 15-Jun-13 23:34:10

Yeah because after Levison the papers are just queuing up to misrepresent multi-millionaires on the front pages of their papers and risk being sued hmm

This man is being described as a violent abuser of his wife. If there was even the slightest risk that he was actually trying to retrieve an errant fish bone or grape from her wind pipe, or another innocent explantion, they would not run this because of the risk or libel action. I expect this is the tip of the iceberg and Fleet Street has been awash with rumours for ages and they have been followed waiting to capture it.

Poor Nigella sad

Ziggyzoom Sat 15-Jun-13 23:35:03

There is no innocent explanation for this. I hope Nigella has the strength and support to stand up to him.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:35:03

The paps do go for certain angles but both they and any editor would have to be pretty convinced of the story to run something like this.

MadBusLady Sat 15-Jun-13 23:36:15

sad

I don't think newspapers go round libelling billionaires unless they are very sure of their facts. If what they're suggesting is not substantially true he could destroy them. Ergo, it probably is.

MadBusLady Sat 15-Jun-13 23:36:36

xposts with everyone.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 15-Jun-13 23:37:25

I don't know if any of you have ever been on a first-aid course, but if someone is choking please don't try and save them by strangling them. It won't help.

johnworf Sat 15-Jun-13 23:40:48

I don't understand why whoever took this pic didn't intervene or at least call the police? Is it just newsworthy pics over someones safety?

Saatchi is a twat and I hope she comes to her senses and leaves him after this.

Kneedeepindaisies Sat 15-Jun-13 23:42:25

Good advice Outraged. Yanking someone's nose and making them cry also doesn't help.

I have a feeling he'll get away with this.sad

TheCrackFox Sat 15-Jun-13 23:42:26

Poor Nigella, I am genuinely shocked.

TBF I think this is a gross invasion of her privacy.

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 15-Jun-13 23:45:07

I am so sad for Nigella, her children and step daughter.

ProphetOfDoom Sat 15-Jun-13 23:49:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 15-Jun-13 23:52:48

Schmaltzing maybe this is that intervention? Those pictures could well have been taken by someone being paid to try and get such a shot.

I really hope that she finds the strength to leave him. Poor woman.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:53:22

The article indicates it was fairly public as rows go.

BriansBrain Sat 15-Jun-13 23:53:53

I had 2 thoughts

1. God she looks so sad and all doesn't seem well

2. Who the fuck thinks it is right to photograph her like that.

I understand news blah blah but fucking hell she looks like she needs a really good friend MN to lean on.

I feel sad on her behalf.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:55:01

She looks sad and knackered in those photos, I agree.

frutilla Sat 15-Jun-13 23:55:32

Awful....no words for it. Love Nigella, always thought they had such an amazing relationship. If he was just checking her thyroid, why would she a. look so terrified and b. be pictured leaving in tears. Plus, I doubt the papers would want to risk the libel case, report says other customers heard them arguing and gasped at what was happening.

BoffinMum Sat 15-Jun-13 23:55:40

If DH did this to me in a restaurant I'd go home and lock him out for a start. Then I'd be straight onto MN.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 00:00:26

I am shocked by those photos.

Anybody saying that there could be an innocent explanation clearly hasn't looked at them all. She's in tears in the last one.

According to onlookers (what the fuck were they doing 'onlooking' and not intervening) he was shouting at her and grabbing her arm and she leant over and kissed him on the cheek to pacify him.

Poor Nigella.

LittleFrieda Sun 16-Jun-13 00:01:55

Would anyone like to buy my new installation: "seventy year old penis and testicles in formaldehyde"?

LittleFrieda Sun 16-Jun-13 00:03:45

They are possibly in the throes of breaking up.

Oh my word - that Daily Mail link! Could the captions have been any more out of step with the pictures? 'Loved up' and 'the tender touch'? Yeah, right. hmm

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 00:11:20

Since there is evidence of an assult will the police automatically look into it and charge him?

Or would she have to make a complaint?

ITCouldBeWorse Sun 16-Jun-13 00:12:01

To be utterly honest, if I witnessed something like this, I think I'd be so shocked, I'm not sure I'd spring into action. I think I'd at first not be sure that my eyes had not deceived me, then I'd have to brace myself to intervene (and check my kids were ok), and formulate a bit of a plan.

Equally I don't think id be sitting taking photos, but I am the woman in the street, not a photographer.

It would be nice to think people would intervene, but those photos might have been taken in a 60 second window, and I don't know that I would have had time to process something so shocking that fast. And repeat victims I think tend to minimise events to try to stay safe.

Eyesunderarock Sun 16-Jun-13 00:13:17

Nobody helped. No one yelled or said 'What the hell are you doing?'
Not one person in that restaurant said a thing to challenge him.

Onesleeptillwembley Sun 16-Jun-13 00:14:17

Maybe (probably not, but it's possible) the person taking the pics wanted to give her a wake up call. Intended or not, maybe it has done her a long term favour, even though she may not see it.

MadBusLady Sun 16-Jun-13 00:15:47

TBF, we don't know that no-one on the scene called the police. I would have done that. I suspect that would actually be more helpful to the victim than leaping into some kind of heroic confrontation, with who knows what consequences later.

Ziggyzoom Sun 16-Jun-13 00:16:56

hotcross -the short answer is yes. The police can, and should act on these latest photos. A conviction without a complaint is unlikely, but the pictures will help.

ITCouldBeWorse Sun 16-Jun-13 00:19:03

And staff in swanky places tend to be trained in obsequiousness so might be just as shocked. As has been mentioned, they may have called the police.

At the end of the day, there is one person who could have stopped that crime, and that is the criminal, saatchi.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 00:19:12

I think you need to be careful about intervening in domestic situations like that, jumping in probably isn't always the best thing.

Awks Sun 16-Jun-13 00:21:13

Poor woman. Hope she can get away from that excuse of a man and find peace.

Something is very wrong in those pictures, I don't know how they can be construed as anything other than domestic abuse.

I think it was absolutely the right decision to publish them. A conspiracy of silence is what allows abuse to continue. I hope she LTB.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 00:28:01

Thanks Ziggy I always get confused with how these processes work.

Worst case scenario and Nigella doesn't want to report him, at least everybody will see him for what he is and his reputation will be damaged irrevocably.

NiceTabard Sun 16-Jun-13 00:35:22

Those photos are really shocking.

Hope she is OK.

Hope the police are banging on his door.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Jun-13 00:43:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bakingnovice Sun 16-Jun-13 00:47:14

So so sad. Love nigella. Always so upbeat and positive despite facing many challenges. She deserves better than this prick.

boxoftricks Sun 16-Jun-13 01:15:49

Am I the only person tat is also angry that it would seem no ne stepped in after a man very publicly throttled his wife? I would hope the papperazzi leapt up and did something about it a fraction of a second after taking the photo but I doubt it... It shouldn't happen in the first place but standing by and not doing anything is unforgivable too

HibiscusIsland Sun 16-Jun-13 01:28:47

Could it be that she said her glands were swollen and he was feeling them? (Sorry if already been mentioned and discounted, not read the whole thread.) Can't think of an explanation for the hand over mouth though

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 01:32:01

'I think you need to be careful about intervening in domestic situations like that, jumping in probably isn't always the best thing.'

Isn't that the problem generally? That people don't think it's their business, or they think they must have misread it (because nobody assaults someone in a public place in broad daylight, which is bollocks of course).

I did similar not long back where I managed to justify palming off the responsibility I should have taken to do something onto the thought that 'other people are sorting it'.

I agree that wading in on a few static (and I thought pretty sinister at face value) pictures might be jumping the gun until she says something herself, but people have every right to react to them.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 01:35:05

Hibiscus Have you looked at all of the pictures?

He isn't feeling her glands.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 01:36:39

I agree AgentZigzag

And I don't like it being called a 'domestic situation' either.

Take out the fact that they are married, one person is attacking another. It's assault.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 01:39:10

I think it's difficult as well because in the pictures it looks like she's taking it very calmly. If she were screaming for help, someone would help, but if you were in a restaurant observing Nigella Lawson from the telly being quietly throttled by her husband.....who knows how you'd react?! Or how they should react. Should you go over and ask if everything is ok? Run over and yank him off of her? Call the police? Scream for him to stop? I don't know and I guess your average diner doesn't either.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 01:40:29

It's completely different to witnessing a stranger attack though HotCross and to pretend it isn't is stupid.

CrystalDeCanter Sun 16-Jun-13 01:42:13

Really saddened by this. I always admired Nigella for her intelligence, and appearance of living life well, especially after the tragic losses of her dh, sis and mum. It's awful to think that her current marriage to -- the shit-- Saatchi could be a miserable life of dv.

If the pictures are as they appear I really hope she can LTB. Rooting for you Nigella (if you're a Mner).

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 01:49:02

Outraged I really think you should take a look at all the pictures, there are several.

She is not 'taking it calmly,' and witnesses said he was shouting at her beforehand and she was trying to placate him.

How is it different to witnessing a stranger attack? We know they are married because they are in the public eye.

If you saw a man throttle a woman a bar or a restaurant would you not get involved in case they were in a relationship? hmm

You don't have less rights when you are married. Assault is still assault.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 01:51:01
OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:00:01

I've seen all the pictures. She doesn't look like she's screaming for help in any of them.

If you intervene in a stranger attack, you stop the attack (hopefully) and help the victim and that should be the end of it.

In a domestic violence situation you stop the attack and then what? She LTB and lives happily ever after? Of course not. She goes home with him. Or maybe she doesn't, but he comes round later. Then what? Are you there then to intervene? No.

She's been married to him for years, I doubt this is an out of the blue attack. She obviously stays. Domestic violence is FAR FAR more complicated than a stranger attack. I think if you really think about it you can see why.

The difference between a couple in a restaurant and two strangers in a restaurant is usually quite clear.

Assault is still assault obviously, but how it's best dealt with will depend on the situation.

IAgreeCompletely Sun 16-Jun-13 02:02:43

I don't think you can tell what is happening in the photos confused

There are lots of assumptions being made on this thread.

I don't know what is going I but neither does anyone else on this tread.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 02:06:18

Unless you know her personally, it is a stranger attack isn't it?

I thought she could have been telling him something so distressing she accepted him doing that to her because she felt she deserved it (her hand on his hand and kissing him is a bit creepy).

But like bullying, the uncomfortable thing isn't necessarily about them, it's about why all the people didn't make the call to involve the police (which I'm sure the paper would have reported).

I know why people don't is complicated for all sorts of reasons, and I don't want to, but I can't help but be interested in what she might say about what happened.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 02:08:27

^A couple on the adjacent table, who briefly chatted with Nigella earlier, turned round and gasped in alarm as they saw her in distress.

She dabbed her eyes on a linen napkin as Saatchi tapped his ­cigarettes impatiently on the table.

Nigella then downed her glass of red wine in one gulp and began to talk, her voice trembling.

She seemed to be trying to pacify her husband, placing a hand on his left wrist as it lay on the table.

At that moment she leaned over and kissed his right cheek.

“It was utterly shocking to watch,” said one onlooker. “I have no doubt she was scared. It was horrific, ­really. She was very tearful and was ­constantly dabbing her eyes.

“Nigella was very, very upset. She had a real look of fear on her face. No man should do that to a woman. She raised her voice and got angry but at the same time was trying to calm him down, almost like you would try to calm down a child.

"The kiss was a strange thing. He was being ­intimidating, ­threatening.

“And yet she kissed him. She ­appeared to be a woman who loves him but was clearly unable to stop him being abusive, ­frightening and ­disrespectful to her.”

Saatchi, 6ft and 17 stone, marched off, leaving his wife sobbing at the table and ­grasping her mobile phone as he got into a car the couple had waiting.^

I don't think its difficult to work out she wasn't 'screaming for help.'

Most victims of domestic violence don't run and scream for help when they are attacked, they take it because the abusive relationship has conditioned them to do so, they are scared and quite often they can't see any way out.

Add in to that the fact that she is a celebrity, and the fact that if she made a scene everybody would know what was going on and it's understandable that she reacted the way she did.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:09:10

I think a stranger attack refers to the victim and the attacker agent, not the victim and the witness.

She's a stranger to me, but not to her husband.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 02:11:23

But like a poster said further up the thread IAgree, in 13 years of marriage, at no point has DH put his hands anywhere near my throat and could be interpreted as him throttling me.

And if anyone but 3 YO DD2 (and I might push away DD1) tweaked my fucking nose, I'd fucking punch the bastards out.

The indignity of it! In a restaurant!

It's such an intrusive thing to do.

(keeping in my mind that it might not be as it appears)

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:12:12

'I don't think its difficult to work out she wasn't 'screaming for help.'

Most victims of domestic violence don't run and scream for help when they are attacked, they take it because the abusive relationship has conditioned them to do so, they are scared and quite often they can't see any way out.

Add in to that the fact that she is a celebrity, and the fact that if she made a scene everybody would know what was going on and it's understandable that she reacted the way she did.'

Exactly hotcross, so is leaping into the situation and having a possibly violent confrontation helpful? Call the police, see her after and make sure she is ok, offer to help her, even take the photographs for evidence, but striding in and getting involved is probably not going to be helpful to her.

hopkinette Sun 16-Jun-13 02:16:46

"Ha! Ha! I fondly remember the time my husband put his hands around my neck and squeezed it affectionately in public!" SAID NO ONE EVER.

Imagine being so hysterically determined to deny that rich men can be abusive cunts that you could look at those pictures and be confused about what they meant. WOW.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 02:17:19

Mmm, I see what you mean Outraged.

That there are more possibilities for interpreting it than if they were strangers to each other.

Which is true of course.

That she must have accepted some level of it to be not jumping up calling for assistance. That she would be the better judge of something untoward going on because she's in the situation, if she's not indicating she needs help then she must be OK.

But like other people have said, your thinking can be skewed/distorted by the abuse, which not everyone in the restaurant would have used when they judged the situation.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 02:19:58

I didn't say have a 'violent confrontation,' that would be the worst thing to do.

What I mean is if I were in that restaurant and saw the scene that those pictures depicted and witnesses described, I would have went over.

Rightly or wrongly it wouldn't come in to my head to study the whole situation and work out the what should be done for the best.

When you say that people should 'see her after and make sure she is ok' - what do you do? Wait patiently at the side of the table until he has finished shouting and squeezing her throat?

hopkinette Sun 16-Jun-13 02:23:03

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:26:02

Agent I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying there is really any 'possibilities for interpreting it' as anything other than assault. I am not saying that because she isn't screaming she doesn't need help.

What I am saying is that her fellow diner leaping across the table and yanking him off of her is not the help she needs.

She obviously wanted to keep him/the situation calm, let her do that and then help. Call the police. Try and get her on her own and ask if she needs help. Even the photographs may be helpful. Escalating the situation is not going to help her.

If you witness a stranger attack, by all means leap in and pull the attacker off.

Domestic violence is similar to child abuse in that sense. It doesn't help the child if you anger the violent parent. Call the police, call SS, follow them. Only physically intervene if you have no other choice.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:30:41

HotCross I know you wouldn't intend a violent confrontation, but if you intervene in that sort of situation that is likely what would happen.

Obviously it's a judgment call, if you felt it couldn't wait then you have no choice but to intervene.

All I'm saying is, often in a domestic assault situation rushing in is not the best form of help for the victim. If you can wait until the situation has diffused a little it may be better.

Chubfuddler Sun 16-Jun-13 02:30:47

If this is what it appears, I really really hope she gets help and gets out.

May09Bump Sun 16-Jun-13 02:42:26

I'm very sad for her - I remember the documentary about her family dealing with her Husband having cancer / dying (they were such a great couple) She is a brave and kind lady, who I thought had found happiness and married again. No one deserves to be treated like this by anyone - let alone someone who is suppose to love you.

I hope she gets the help she needs and he gets locked up.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 02:51:41

But if you think of people in abusive relationships Outraged, who stay in them for sometimes decades at a time, as having a veil over their eyes regarding how acceptable what happens in their relationship is, having strangers feel so strongly about what they see that they break social conventions to intervene in your private relationship, may be the jolt needed for the person to see it for what it is.

Bit of a long sentence, but just as you say that it shouldn't be judged one way, it shouldn't be judged as the other either.

That there could be things stopping her from behaving in the rational way we think we would, sat snug at home not in abusive atmospheres/thought patterns.

piffpoff Sun 16-Jun-13 02:57:46

Really Hopkinette? Did you really post that to Outraged or am I just getting cross eyed with tiredness?

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 02:58:19

It's not about judging, it's about safety. She has to go home to him, if he's massively fucked off because he's been attacked in a restaurant it's going to be her that gets it. That's my point.

If she's been in an abusive relationship for years a random stranger intervening isn't going to suddenly open her eyes and she'll immediately ltb and ride off into the sunset. It doesn't work like that.

differentnameforthis Sun 16-Jun-13 03:17:33

She doesn't look like she's screaming for help in any of them

I am no expert I admit, but perhaps that is because making a fuss would make the whole situation worse? Perhaps she is trying not to draw any (more) attention to it than absolutely necessary.

Perhaps she knows of she makes a fuss, things will worsen once at home.
I have heard of DV victims just "taking" the beatings, so they are over & done with, as to make a fuss prolongs it. She could be in survival mode.

ZenGardener Sun 16-Jun-13 03:17:57

By the way, the last two pictures where she seems to be crying were taken at a different time as she is wearing different clothes.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 03:19:08

If I saw a man with his hands round a woman's neck, in any situation, anywhere, I hope I'd not sit there thinking of all the situations/reasons how this isn't him throttling her (accepting that at the crucial moment I didn't step up to the mark when something did happen).

It would be such an immediate and instinctive response that what happened afterwards when they got home wouldn't be on the agenda.

Surely strangling someone is trying to kill them, or at least threatening they could do the deed.

Messing about with anyone's windpipe is unreasonable, the flat of his hand was on it, you don't check out glands like that you do it with the tips of your fingers dug into the sides of your neck.

But that makes me think they've misrepresented it, that the other diners didn't have that immediate response to go over and intervene.

Dunno.

AgentZigzag Sun 16-Jun-13 03:20:00

Last post was to Outraged.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 03:27:38

That's exactly what I think differentnameforthis.

I do think it makes it harder for other people to intervene because it's not what they would expect perhaps, but that's not really relevant to my point.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 03:40:16

Agent I think you make two separate points there.

1. That he wasn't assaulting her or that it could look like he wasn't assaulting her. I'm not sure why you address this to me as I have not said that he wasn't assaulting her. Not once. My view that people should not get immediately involved is nothing to do with doubting what happened and everything to do with concern about what would happen next.

2. How you would deal with this situation. Firstly, no-one knows how they'd deal with it until it happens. Secondly, there is how you would instinctively deal with it. Thirdly, there is how you should deal with it. I understand that it may be instinct to immediately intervene, it just wouldn't necessarily be the best thing to do. Think (quickly) before you act.

Panzee Sun 16-Jun-13 03:51:16

Georgianmumto5 I think the DM are deliberately dropping huge hints with their out of step captions about Nigella and the billionaire with high priced lawyers. Especially comments like inseparable.

Episode Sun 16-Jun-13 03:59:43

Perhaps I may sound insensitive but he's got 20 odd years on her! If she lumped him one, I think he'd think twice about putting his hands on her again....

Or at 17st maybe not, but one would hope.

I hate this sort of thing or bullying of any sought. I have fond memories of the day some idiot tried this shit on me!

Lack of self esteem is a horrible thing. How, just how could you not immediately hate, try to defend yourself or at best retaliate to anybody that put their hand on you?

BUT these are my thoughts, and I fully accept that the mindset of anybody in an abusive relationship is not as simple as I'd like it to be, but by god if I was her.......

Episode Sun 16-Jun-13 04:04:13
OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 04:06:35

Zen in the last two pictures on the mirror link where she looks like she's crying, she is wearing the same outfit.

AlbertaCampion Sun 16-Jun-13 04:10:17

These pictures are so shocking and upsetting: is it possible to place a trigger warning in the thread title? What does one do, report?

ZenGardener Sun 16-Jun-13 04:16:28

Oh, I see. The pictures in the Daily Mail were taken on a different day then.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 04:18:40

I think the Daily Mail pictures are from last year zen

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 04:18:59

I think the Daily Mail pictures are from last year zen

k2togm1 Sun 16-Jun-13 04:19:44

Hopkinette you are really having a good night tonight aren't you?

Dread to think what happens behind doors if this is what he does in publichmm

Rulesgirl Sun 16-Jun-13 04:37:22

Apparently she had an abusive mother who used to beat her. She has discussed this in an interview a few years ago. She has low self esteem and tries hard to please people. sad

God. Poor Nigella.

Hopkinette? Everything ok?

Crumbledwalnuts Sun 16-Jun-13 07:50:01

Oh Great, terrific, well done Boffin MUm. And let's not forget it's not a feminist issue - this is for everybody to worry about. Not in the Telegraph or Guardian, just the tabloids. Hurrah for tabloid journalism.

Fozziebearmum2b Sun 16-Jun-13 07:57:22

To me this doesn't look like the first time this has happened... And if he does this in public what goes on behind closed doors...

To those who think it might be a 'dodgy pap shot' please look at the images and your relationships. Would you ever have an innocent pic construed like this-I think not

Hope she gets the help she needs hmm

I'm stunned. She always looked so perfect, seemed so confident. no way you would ever suspect that she was living with this or could look so sad and afraid. Scary how she looks scared but yet not surprised or shocked. sad

Crumbledwalnuts Sun 16-Jun-13 08:19:07

Someone seems like a controlling bastard. What a creep. Metropolitan elite new man type my arse. Once she said he liked all the "strappy stuff" in bed. Yuk.

Crumbledwalnuts Sun 16-Jun-13 08:21:36

I agree with Agent ZZ that my instant response on the next table would be "Christ what the fuck are you doing?" Not an embarrassed shifting of buttocks.

MadBusLady Sun 16-Jun-13 08:22:26

It's not about judging, it's about safety. She has to go home to him, if he's massively fucked off because he's been attacked in a restaurant it's going to be her that gets it. That's my point.

^ This. I think all the well-intentioned "I'd have said something" is missing the point. Of course you do something, but not in a way that could endanger anyone further. What's the first piece of advice people get on DV threads - don't tell him you're leaving, he will escalate. You have no idea what kind of twisted psycho someone like this is, or what they might reason from your active intervention. It's not about you and your moral courage, it's about someone else's safety.

Hopkinette hmm

Sheshelob Sun 16-Jun-13 08:24:47

Hopkinette was on a "kill yourself" binge last night.

Is standard troll language.

Ignore.

mayihaveaboxofchoculaits Sun 16-Jun-13 08:28:25

The Fail article was produced in Dec of last year, so it seems that it could be seen as evidence of escalating behaviour by one party. Also, the article of dec is like a social acceptance of female subjection.(shes in love, hes controlling, its all about the superficial). So we shouldn't be surprised that the paps didn't step in.
The DM article is disgraceful.
Whatever NL thinks she is doing to protect her marriage, she needs to look at these latest pictures and see what everyone else can see, and look out for herself.
Maybe, the good that might come, is that we are reminded of the "everyday sexism" that we should stand up against.

mayihaveaboxofchoculaits Sun 16-Jun-13 08:29:51

I should say TIPICALLY disgraceful.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 08:31:28

He's got no respect for her. None at all. She's a toy to him. It's like watching a cat killing a bird.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 08:33:01

I am glad - though it isn't my place to be glad - that the photographs were taken.

They are if nothing else proof that could be used in a legal case against the bastard.

I don't know what she will do. I am sure she is in bits. But I wish her all the love and support she might need.

scallopsrgreat Sun 16-Jun-13 08:36:14

So lets get this straight. There is a picture of a man with his hands round a woman's throat. Another photo of him on another occasion with his hand over her mouth. There is eye witness testimony to say he was being aggressive and she was upset. Added to that it is on the front pages of the newspapers after the Leveson enquiry. Yet people are still trying to minimise his behaviour. Misogyny alive and kicking I see. What exactly does he have to do? Wear a neon sign round his neck saying "I am a violent abusive fucker"?

Oh and the "she wasn't screaming for help" nonsense is just victim blaming shit.

MrsCampbellBlack Sun 16-Jun-13 08:36:18

Awful photos. I suspect as someone else said that its been known about for a while and the press have just been waiting to get the shot.

scallopsrgreat Sun 16-Jun-13 08:40:49

I just hope she is OK and so are her children. It must be awful to see pictures of your mother being attacked liked that sad

differentnameforthis Sun 16-Jun-13 08:41:54

AlbertaCampion

I have reported the post asking for a trigger warning, hope they see it soon!

Chubfuddler Sun 16-Jun-13 08:43:28

Just goes to show doesn't it, you can be a Domestic Goddess and it doesn't make any difference. A man who wants to be an abuser will do it no matter how much a woman twists herself in knots to be perfect for him.

Nishky Sun 16-Jun-13 08:43:57

The clothes are the same in the crying pictures- she is wearing a spotty top in the photos at the table

theboiledfrog Sun 16-Jun-13 08:49:34

These pictures have really hit home with me.

I am on the relationships ea thread. Am currently in what I think is an abusive marriage of 20 plus years.

My H does the nose thing. He flicks it and holds my nostrils up. He also pinches my nose as im going to sleep so I gasp for a breath. And rubs my face with his bare hand. He always laughs and makes a joke out of it.

The reason I havnt reacted is the confusion it creates in me. my feelings are trying to tell me this is wrong but then you have a man in front of you laughing saying cant you take a joke. Its horrible. Her face in these pictures I think tells the story of how she feels. Its how I feel.

Seeing these pictues and reading all your responses to these pictures has given me more determination to get out of this life. When you are in it your tolerance bar is so high you dont see it. Really hope she is ok.

scallopsrgreat Sun 16-Jun-13 09:01:21

Hope you are OK theboiledfrog sad

NaturalBlondeYeahRight Sun 16-Jun-13 09:04:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sorry what are you suggesting Natural?

NaturalBlondeYeahRight Sun 16-Jun-13 09:18:00

Sorry, not really sure what I'm saying. Just thinking out loud-the pictures tell me all I need to know.
Just seem like quite a lot of flags over the years. I've asked for my post to be removed.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 16-Jun-13 09:21:55

Theboiledfrog - I hope you're ok too. I understand your username, as I have a friend just escaping an abusive relationship, and she says the 'boiled frog' describes exactly how he systematically wore down her self-esteem.

I feel so bad for Nigella, those photos will haunt me. The look on her face is pleading, placatory, 'please don't do this.' I'd bet my last £ that it's not the first time it's happened. I thought the nose thing was disturbing too, strange when you think he's choking her in all the others. But there's something just so disdainful about the nose flicking thing. I can't put it into words.

yes, she looks resigned. Here we go again.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 16-Jun-13 09:29:19

How many women are putting up with this sort of thing behind closed doors? No man has ever, ever put his hands around my throat, or flicked my face like that. I just can't believe he can treat lovely Nigella like that. I'm so sad for her.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Jun-13 09:33:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I don't think you can read anything in to the swimming costume other than the effects of somebody with alabaster skin swimming in Australia.
Everything else - well it's a matter of record that they started their relationship and married when she was hugely vulnerable.

I agree with the other posters who have suggested that there is an element of the tip off to these pictures. I HOPE there is somebody in Nigella's corner who is round at her home this morning saying 'come on, lets get you out'.

I think that if I'd been there btw I would have at least asked her if she was ok. Bollocks to all the 'domestic' stuff. That's abuse and when you see abuse you try and do something.

theboiledfrog Sun 16-Jun-13 09:46:14

scallop sabrina thanks yes im ok. Dont want to de rail the thread, just put another perpective over.
My counsellor describes my relationshipr as emotionally abusive and physically intrusive. Its the physically intrusive bit that is hard to get you head round I think. Like the nose thing.
Just hope by seeing the pictures as if looking at someone else Nigella realises what is really happening.

BoffinMum Sun 16-Jun-13 10:09:37

I would be really surprised if not one of the witnesses called the police about this today, given the fact it's in the papers etc.

Nobody wants to wade in when they are not sure of the facts, especially when a physically massive rich guy is involved, and it's taking place in a posh restaurant, but witnesses have a responsibility to report a crime ASAP afterwards if they have seen one.

dufflefluffle Sun 16-Jun-13 10:26:09

Is there any chance he was just demonstrating something to her?????

VivaLeBeaver Sun 16-Jun-13 10:33:39

I hope she can find the courage to leave.

She's financially independent, they don't have kids together. I know its easy for me to say but she should pack her bags and go.

arsenaltilidie Sun 16-Jun-13 10:36:58

He looks very controlling, I bet he was the reason Nigella Lawson wore that 'burkini' Nigella on the Beach

bico Sun 16-Jun-13 10:39:51

I doubt it duffle from the report it says he did it four times. If he was demonstrating something he'd only need to do it once. She also looks very upset in the photo of her walking to the car.

Doesn't S have the reputation of being very litigious? That may unfortunately put people off from coming forward as witnesses.

WildThongsHeartString Sun 16-Jun-13 10:43:45

Wasn't there a story a couple of years ago when she had to thread a scarf through the top of her evening dress because her husband felt she was showing her cleavage. I always thought that was a bit hmm

CatherineHMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 16-Jun-13 10:49:09

Would like to bring our section on Domestic Violence to the attention of anyone who's reading this thread and would like more advice.

TheRealFellatio Sun 16-Jun-13 11:00:06

I feel the same PareyMortas

He is holding her hand, yes Eleanor - quite gently in fact. Whilst gripping her throat at the same time. hmm She looks panicky and uncomfortable to say the least. Personally I think that makes it more sinister, not less. There is no momentary loss of control, no angry outburst, it looks less like a violent 'assault' and more like a chilling, intimidating warning, and an attempt to control through fear and humiliation.

I can think of lots I'd like to say about this but I don't even want to talk about it really- it seems salacious and disloyal and I can't begin to imagine how she must be feeling, having it all picked over and analysed in such detail.

I did feel I should respond to Eleanor's attempts to justify or minimise it though.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 11:02:47

I can't believe how many people are trying to pass this off as anything other than abuse.

In non-abusive relationships scenes like that would never unfold to be photographed.

If you place your hands around the front of your neck like he is doing in that photo, feel how uncomfortable it is. Apply pressure like he is doing and it becomes really painful.

She isn't struggling, she is pleading and trying to placate him.

I'd also bet £ that this has happened many, many times before. sad

IAgreeCompletely Sun 16-Jun-13 11:12:06

I have no idea what was happening in the photos (no one here does). I am not dismissing it - just saying I can not tell what is happening.

I am amazed that posters are taking The Mirror and The Sunday People at their word. I would never read those papers.

How anyone can come to any other conclusion than DV is beyond me, she is clearly distressed, it's absolutely horrendous to see.

I'm sure I read an interview with her where she describes CS as being difficult and if I remember correctly she has said that her mother physically abused her during her childhood.

I hope she is not going to be blamed by him for these photographs.

MissStrawberry Sun 16-Jun-13 11:22:31

If someone makes a complaint to the police they have to investigate. I really hope someone does. That poor woman sad. I really admire her, always wondered what she saw in him tbh, and I really hope this is all a total misunderstanding or he is currently in a police cell.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 11:32:40

it looks to me that the way she is holding his hand looks like it's ready to brace against further movement.
boiled, i hope you get away soon. your counsellor's description of 'physical intrusion' seems to me very perceptive, i'm glad you have that person on your team.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 11:33:15

IAgree I'm not taking their word for it. I'm looking at a series of photographs that show what happened.

WeAppearToBeAlright Sun 16-Jun-13 11:33:42

It's quite strange reading the comments here about kicking arse, or punching the bastard, or screaming the place down, because that's just not how it is with assault in a relationship as opposed to some random on the street: what the 'boiling frog' really means is that by the time you've got to this stage, you just want it to stop. You don't have any big, grand energetic ideas about escaping, or fighting back, you just want it to stop. And if placating might do that, you placate away for all you're worth.

What causes the final snap is very different for different people - if this is her situation, I hope having it made visible might help.

PoppyAmex Sun 16-Jun-13 11:48:36

"I am amazed that posters are taking The Mirror and The Sunday People at their word. I would never read those papers."

Erm... did they photoshop the pictures? Because even if you don't read a word in that article, those pictures speak for themselves.

"Checking if her glands are swollen"? Really?

MrsCampbellBlack Sun 16-Jun-13 12:11:29

Must say the swollen glands thing has me confused - If I check someone's glands, I use both hands, one on either side.

I'd be freaked out if someone checked my glands with one hand like that.

I didn't read the article, a picture tells a thousand words.

ihearsounds Sun 16-Jun-13 12:19:37

I cannot believe that people are trying to make excuses for what is happening in these pictures.. He's trying to demonstrate something on her. Feeling her glands. Pulling a stray hair from her nose.. Wtaf.

She doesn't seem to be screaming for help. Really?
She should have hit him back?

Some of you really, really have no idea. You really think it is that easy to walk away from a DV relationship? Then why do millions of people live in violent relationships? Why, because of dv are there daily deaths? Do you think that these victims enjoy the sheer terror of their daily existence. Don't be so ridiculous.

It is because of conditioning. Victims are told all the time that it's their fault. When the abuser appologises, espeically in the eary days, its with the whole sorry babe, I didn't mean to hurt you. It's just I get so frustrated with x,y and z (something the victim has done). I will try harder next time to control myself. The abuser will behave themselves for a few days, and then boom, the circle has started again.

The victims I know, all come from abusive childhoods as well. Abuse is sadly all they know. They associate abuse for love. When someone is nice and caring it is treated as rejection. It is hard to get out of the relationship becuase they don't see it as wrong.

But yes lets blaim the victims. Lets ignore what we see in front of us. Lets try and rationalise it for something that it isn't. Let's say its him being loving and caring. Because this is what loving and caring people do... If this is honestly what some of you think, then start to take a look at your relationships. How many times are you blaimed for another persons anger. How many times are you told how to behave. The answer should be none.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 12:28:00

Well said Ihearsounds

KatyDid02 Sun 16-Jun-13 12:31:09

It's awful. I'd be mortified if I were her, I mean to have pictures like that all over the papers. Poor woman.

PoppyAmex Sun 16-Jun-13 12:35:00

"I'd be mortified if I were her, I mean to have pictures like that all over the papers. Poor woman."

WTF? Why should she be mortified? And her biggest problem is being in the papers?

I'm actually spluttering right now. Words fail me.

Back2Two Sun 16-Jun-13 12:43:38

Nigella's eyes say it all in the pictures. She's trying so hard to speak to him with her eyes, to plead with him. She is very passive seeming and resigned as people have said. It is very sad, because, by causing no fuss it's as though she is actually trying to protect him from what he is doing in public. Fear is in the pictures.

What a weak and cowardly little man.
Poor Nigella, my heart goes out to her.

KatyDid02 Sun 16-Jun-13 12:44:49

Suffering the abuse is awful, having it dragged out in public makes it all worse.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 12:46:26

I'd just like to make it clear that 'she doesn't seem to be screaming for help' was not victim blaming nor was it a criticism of her. I hope if read in context with my other comments this is clear.

ihearsounds Sun 16-Jun-13 12:46:41

No she shouldn't be mortified. Again this is portraying that as the victim she is in the wrong.

He should be the one that should be mortified.

PoppyAmex Sun 16-Jun-13 12:46:42

No, Katy - keeping it "in the family" because it's "shameful" is what makes it worse.

moisturiser Sun 16-Jun-13 12:47:51

I don't think she should be mortified, but sadly people often do feel embarrassed at this sort of thing. Have you never been crying in public, someone comes up to you and asks what's wrong and you say, 'oh nothing, I'm fine,' hoping desperately they'll leave you alone because you feel embarrassed more than anything?

NL has nothing, nothing to feel embarrassed about, the poor woman I hope she's got someone to give her a massive hug and help her get out. CS has everything to feel embarrassed about. But sadly abuse victims do feel shame and I can imagine she will be feeling mortified. She shouldn't but I bet she is.

SirChenjin Sun 16-Jun-13 12:51:36

The photos and a detailed description including statements from witnesses are in the Telegraph - and yet Scotland Yard said that no complaints have been made and no investigations are under way.

As well as being horrified by the photos and feeling the utmost sympathy for Nigelle, I'm at a loss to understand why no-one did anything about it when so many people witnessed it. I can (sort of...) understand why people felt they didn't want to intervene, but surely a phone call to the police while it was going on?

Just awful sad

TheRealFellatio Sun 16-Jun-13 13:05:58

Nigella's eyes say it all in the pictures. She's trying so hard to speak to him with her eyes, to plead with him. She is very passive seeming and resigned as people have said. It is very sad, because, by causing no fuss it's as though she is actually trying to protect him from what he is doing in public. Fear is in the pictures.

Yes! That is exactly what she is doing.

No she shouldn't be mortified. Again this is portraying that as the victim she is in the wrong.

No, that's not what it's about at all. Just because she might know, rationally, that she is not responsible for his actions doesn't mean that she won't feel mortification at the way her privacy has been invaded and her pain has been exposed for all to see. We don't know what is going on in this relationship but all we do know is that for her own reasons she isn't ready to leave it yet. And so she shouldn't have to have this crap to deal with as well. It is mortifying. that doesn't mean she should feel that she is to blame.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 13:10:32

I don't think a single comment on this thread is victim blaming, I think some people are just looking for an argument.

No-one has seen those pictures and thought 'well clearly that situation is Nigella's fault'. No-one.

PoppyAmex Sun 16-Jun-13 13:16:34

I haven't mentioned "victim blaming" but that's not the point anyway.

The point is when something like this happens the narrative shouldn't be around the paparazzi morals/ the reactions of the people who were present etc. - it should be about the disgraceful behaviour of the man who committed the crime.

Nigella is entitled to feel however she wants (mortified, embarrassed etc) but every time we make this narrative about the anything else other than the violence we're doing abused women a disservice.

This culture of "public virtues, private vices" has made TOO MANY casualties over the centuries - let's talk about HIM!

TheRealFellatio Sun 16-Jun-13 13:17:59

I'd be the first person to say that there could be many explanations for what exactly is going on there, but one thing I know is that no matter which one of those explanations is the truth, she looks distressed, and like she is desperately trying to diffuse a potentially very volatile situation. What more do we need to know? confused

mirai Sun 16-Jun-13 13:18:52

She's apparently left her home with a suitcase. Hope she has some good friends around her.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 13:22:01

'Both Hartenstein and Goldman refer to Saatchi's reclusiveness/shyness as a feint or "his shtick"<ref name="Goldman - Conflicting Accounts"/> affected to allow him to accept (or more often decline) invitations and social requests as he chooses. He is also a wife beating thug and deserves to havehis testicles chopped up and fed to him.'

I checked this on the Wiki history and it's true. Fantastic edit grin

Sunnywithshowers Sun 16-Jun-13 13:28:09

I was married to an abusive man. He specialised in humiliating me publicly, and particularly liked to mouth off at me in restaurants. He'd tell me (loudly) all of my shortcomings, then stomp off, leaving me in tears.

Not once did anyone ask me if I was okay. They stared a bit as I tried to compose myself and paid the bill.

It's another level of abuse - it says 'you are such a piece of shit that I am doing this to you in front of everyone else, and nobody will care enough to intervene'.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 16-Jun-13 13:29:10

Poppy I didn't say you had mentioned victim blaming. Some posters have.

This is a discussion forum. People will inevitably discuss all the areas around this. I don't think we all need to put 'disclaimer: he is a shit' after every post. I think we can safely assume, on mumsnet, in the feminism section that we ALL think a man strangling his wife is a shit.

lifeandstyule Sun 16-Jun-13 13:33:11

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BoreOfWhabylon Sun 16-Jun-13 13:33:57

Right, I have just called police on 101 and got transferred to The Met to make a complaint about this They say they have received many calls about the pictures and are now investigating the incident.

'I'd like to know what happened in the moments before.'

And why would that be?

I trust NOT because you assume there must be some provocation taht she afforded him?

There may not be victim blaming on this thread but there's plenty of excuses being offered for the violent man. It's sickening.

I hope that's true about Nigella leaving. I hope she's somewhere safe and she never looks back.

Why would you like to know what happened in the moments before?

Arisbottle Sun 16-Jun-13 13:39:25

On the New Statesman website there is a comment saying that Nigella could have been breaking the news that she has been having a ten year affair as if that excuses it and we could all get back to blaming the woman.

ouryve Sun 16-Jun-13 13:44:45

I'm amazed at the number of people who seem to not realise that abusive and violent men are very capable of being superficially incredibly lovey dovey. In these situations, public displays of affection, hand holding, the appearance of being inseparable etc are very much demonstrations of ownership. It's all power play.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one rather cynically aware that their relationship started when Nigella was at an incredibly vulnerable point in her life.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 13:46:50

didn't john diamond publicly say he was making moves on her?

Arisbottle Sun 16-Jun-13 13:47:49

I had heard something like that aitch.

SixPackWellies Sun 16-Jun-13 13:49:26

I find the pictures so disturbing. She looks both frightened and resigned to it at the same time.

Crumbledwalnuts Sun 16-Jun-13 13:49:32

There's no excuse, it's revolting.

IAgreeCompletely Sun 16-Jun-13 13:50:49

ouryve
I'm amazed at the number of people who seem to not realise that abusive and violent men are very capable of being superficially incredibly lovey dovey

I don't think a single person has said anything that would make me think that! _ Please_ , i am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but I can't see a single post to support your statement.
( BTW I am not looking for an argument)

MadBusLady Sun 16-Jun-13 13:51:17

And that's the bloody New Statesman. Where another comment also dwells on the embarrassment to her. Can you imagine what the Mail's comment thread is like?

sad

It is the Mail reporting that she (and her son) have left the house in a cab with a suitcase, by the way, for anyone who doesn't read it.

MadBusLady Sun 16-Jun-13 13:51:43

(sorry, to Arisbottle)

scallopsrgreat Sun 16-Jun-13 14:02:13

Poppy, that's so true. In DV the focus always seems to come round to the woman's behaviour rather than the man's. The man's sense of entitlement that this is OK to do in front of people in a restaurant and know he won't be stopped is sinister and indicative of the society we live in where DV is the woman's problem to sort out rather than men's (or anyone else's it would seem)

Fillyjonk75 Sun 16-Jun-13 14:02:25

Men get sentences for murder reduced for provocation. Like "She was a bit of a nag". Oh well, that's alright then.

Chubfuddler Sun 16-Jun-13 14:03:35

Actually the comments on the DM are very supportive of NL and the few iffy ones have hundreds of red arrows.

Fillyjonk75 Sun 16-Jun-13 14:05:35

DM comments are not so bad these days. It's often The Telegraph ones that are loop the loop.

yamsareyammy Sun 16-Jun-13 14:09:39

I think it is police advice not to intervene in a domestic?

I am a bit in two minds.
I think, if you do, sometimes and often both people round on the one intervening.
Plus, as someone said, it is dangerous.
You could be an additional casualty.
Plus, as someone else says, the person invariably goes back home with the abuser, at least for a while.

Yes to ringing the police as soon as possible.

HotCrossPun Sun 16-Jun-13 14:23:30

The DM are quoting that in the past Nigella has said -

'I'll go quiet when he explodes, and then I am a nest of horrible festeringness.'

sad

Fillyjonk75 Sun 16-Jun-13 14:38:40

It depends on the situation as to the method of intervention. In a restaurant though I would have to say something if no-one else appeared to be doing anything.

FairPhyllis Sun 16-Jun-13 14:51:49

Poor Nigella. How sad. I always got the impression that she and John Diamond were really happy together. And now this - awful.

I hope she is getting the help she needs.

KatyDid02 Sun 16-Jun-13 15:42:43

Poppy, I agree that it's not good to keep it "in the family" but I also know that if photos taken of me after I had experienced abuse then I'd have been mortified. I guess I have a different POV which I need to resolve.

KatyDid02 Sun 16-Jun-13 15:50:15

Sorry, that didn't read right - "had appeared publically then I'd have been mortified" was what I should have said.

SirChenjin Sun 16-Jun-13 15:59:06

If the DM photos are correct, they've both left the marital home. Hopefully it isn't too long before he feels the full weight of the law. That man should be hanging his head in shame - odious cretin.

Why the hell did no-one call the police when they witnessed it though??

MissStrawberry Sun 16-Jun-13 17:46:20

"BoreOfWhabylon* - THANK YOU for doing that. I really hope it means something will be done and also through calling the police you have been able to let us know that other people have called.

Aitch and Arisbottle - I had read that JD knew how CS felt about Nigella and had given his blessing to them being together.

BOF Sun 16-Jun-13 18:03:14

I think I should just point out that EleanorFarjeon is not the same poster as EleanorHandbasket. Just in case anyone was wondering why she'd had a personality transplant.

MadBusLady Sun 16-Jun-13 18:12:17

Ha. I did have to look twice at that actually.

Very fair point about the DM comments, I have now read some.

Actually the article is pretty damning of him too, though it does focus on her behaviour rather than his. MrsDV makes a very good point on the other thread about us not focusing on the behaviour of the only actual (alleged) criminal in the equation.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 18:17:12

yup, but it struck me that he was sending a message that it was a bit farking uncool for him to do this before he had popped his clogs.

yamsareyammy Sun 16-Jun-13 18:22:40

BOF. Yes, I did for a time.
I think one of them needs to name change, as they sure dont agree with each other.
Up to them of course.

grin

I was here first <stamps feet>

BOF Sun 16-Jun-13 18:31:36

That's my feeling, for all it counts. And Handbasket has been here a fair old time. Still, derail over. It just made me go hmm to think that people might get the wrong end of the stick. I know I wouldn't want to be confused with somebody who had views on this kind of thing which were so different to my own.

BOF Sun 16-Jun-13 18:32:36

X post grin. It took me so long to type because I was trying to be diplomatic.

I'm not diplomatic.

I'm also not a DV apologist so wouldn't like to be confused with EleanorF.

Although I am often a bit of a cunt....

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 18:34:07

ah yes, i thought eleanorfarjeon was handbasket as well.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 18:38:34

I could tell - I'm sure most people could tell! smile It's clearly not you x

JohnnyUtah Sun 16-Jun-13 18:45:30

Handbasket - please don't change your name, it's one of my favourites. (I change mine all the time, but I've been here years)

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 18:45:42

oh, you can tell here... but not necessarily on less contentious subjects.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 19:05:42

Maybe not - but I know Eleanor Farjeon as an author so it stands out as not being in the same vein, iyswim? Like, funny name, bookish name sorta thing.

LesserOfTwoWeevils Sun 16-Jun-13 19:11:55

John Diamond wrote about how he would want Nigella to be having sex again asap after he'd gone, or equally crass words to that effect. He is said to have if not explicitly approved then turned a blind eye to her and CS.
She's also said he agreed to have the TV documentary made about his illness without consulting her. And she's dropped hints about how angry he was when he was ill. So it might have been a case of out of the frying pan...

Oh god Nigella. Get out. You know in your very soul this man is a total and utter cunt. Stop tryi f to appear him. Nothing you do / don't do will ever change him. It's not you. It's him.

Do not let your children see this any more. Nigella, he's scum.

Get yourself onto the relationship board. Mumsnet is here for you.

That should be:

Stop trying to appease him

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 19:25:05

interesting, lesser. certainly i heard rumours (before he achieved sanctity) that it was not a straightforward relationship. hey ho.

AnyFucker Sun 16-Jun-13 19:31:11

Nigella, if you are reading this (and you might well be)

Leave him, he is an abuser and whatever he says you did to cause him to attack you is bollocks

just go, and never go back

Lottapianos Sun 16-Jun-13 19:39:41

I really hope she can get out. I'm horrified by those photos but not hugely surprised - I have read similar things to lots of you about CS refusing to eat her cooking and 'ordering' her to cover her cleavage on nights out. What a total pig. I am a DV survivor myself and I recognise the terror and horror in her face. Sending her love and strength tonight.

Oh god Anyfucker I hope she is reading this. And I hope other women who recognise this shitty scenario are too.

My ex used to love the public/restaurant humiliation. It was horrendous to be treated like this in public. it was surreal. I'd get home and think did that even happen, because he'd just switch back to normal chat and I'd not even know what I'd done wrong.

I'm glad she's got these pictures. There's no pretending. Nigella!! LTB!

FamousFiveForever Sun 16-Jun-13 19:43:46

What worries me as others have said, is that those paps couldn't wait to get those pictures onto a front page. No consideration for the victim, the public humiliation, who knows what he did / does to her behind closed doors.

Scotts smoking area is right on a busy street with loads of thoroughfare and pedestrians. I am shocked he did that in front of the obviously watching public.

What's even more sad is that she tried to kiss, calm and appease him. This is clearly not the first time. Poor lady.

Lottapianos Sun 16-Jun-13 19:56:05

Oh and by the way - those of you tying yourselves in knots trying to make excuses along the lines of swollen glands etc really need to take a big breath and step back. Do you have any idea just how common DV is? A violent deliberate assault is by far the most likely explanation. Just look at those photos. Look at her face and try to put yourself in her shoes.

RoooneyMara Sun 16-Jun-13 19:58:19

I suppose when someone cares very much what people think of him, and has to prove his own tastes to be above critique, he will find having a partner a bit of a threat, because he thinks he owns her like a piece of coveted artwork, and perhaps she might show him up' or 'let him down' by behaving like a normal, lovely human being.

And he thinks he can do what he likes to her, on that basis too.

Just speculation. But that isn't love.

According to daily mail , which I can't link, she's left him.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 16-Jun-13 20:02:21

rooney when he brought out his book he was quoted as having said 'what's the point of having a wife that others don't covet?' or words to that effect. he's ALL about ownership, i think.

MissStrawberry Sun 16-Jun-13 20:03:19

It says they have both left the house, that is all.

She had a suitcase. Am I being too hopeful?

She may just have gone away for a bit. Hideous situation - abused by your husband and your whole family, kids, friends and the rest of the newspaper reading world know. But that's his fault not hers.

SirChenjin Sun 16-Jun-13 20:37:24

Maybe everyone knowing about it is a blessing in disguise? Nothing for the bastard to hide behind now, and plenty of support from friends and family for her (I'm guessing they might have had their suspicions before now)

That's what I'd hope but it's still horrible. We look at the pictures and see abuse, see her fear and it's very simple to us isn't it? But for her - ten years of marriage, lots of good times I'm sure - she's looking at pictures of the man she loves or loves abusing her. That's truly terrible.

sad

tribpot Sun 16-Jun-13 23:23:22

This is a very good TED talk about domestic violence and the difficulty of leaving.

eddiemairswife Mon 17-Jun-13 00:13:41

Just watched newspaper review on Sky. Lots of blank spaces next to text about Nigella. Why?

Oh Lord sad Maybe Saatchi has his lawyers on the case?

cafecito Mon 17-Jun-13 00:52:44

Wow. I had this for years, years. My ex was a very respectable lawyer/author, on the outside. At home he was like that, and an alcoholic, insanely possessive controlling madman. In fact, yes, even in public he hit me. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, leaving, but the best thing too. He justified everything, still does, he seems to believe it himself. I left my good job am now a poverty stricken full time student, with a 3 year old DS, my ex doesn't know where we live and doesn't ever see our son. But I am no longer treading on eggshells or scared, no longer hiding my injuries from colleagues, no longer permanently defending my actions. Reasoning with my ex was like trying to teach latin to a guinea pig. It wasn't possible to reason as in his mind it was all fine. I really hope the media are respectful to Nigella and she takes this as a wake up call and her window to get out. We all love Nigella, nobody should ever be treated like that. No matter how things are or what caused it. Never ever ever ok.

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 17-Jun-13 01:07:40

According to the Daily Mirror those pictures were taken June 9th, she hasn't made a complaint to the police, she didn't leave after it happened. It seems like that's just normal behaviour for him, which makes it a hundred times worse.

tribpot Mon 17-Jun-13 07:43:56

I think there are two lots of pictures - the ones showing him with his hand over her mouth, which certainly were taken earlier in the year, and then the more recently published ones where he has his hands around her throat.

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 17-Jun-13 08:21:18

When they say June 9th, they mean the more recent ones, with his hand round her throat. I think the others are from Nov/Dec last year.

I wonder why they waited a week to publish them?

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 08:54:48
jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 08:55:13

Well done for getting out Calfecito

Lots of people have mentioned why people do not intervene.

Here is a story about intervention into public domestic violence -

1. My sister was at university and got engaged to her boyfriend who she loved without a doubt.
However, at a pub one evening her boyfriend hit her out of the blue.
Thank god another person intervened. It was another guy from university that she only knew from the gym.

This guy - drove her to my sisters and told her on the way about how his mum and him were a victim of domestic violence and she had to get out of this relationship - even if it was the first time her boyfriend had been nasty. She was dropped off at my sisters, my brother who then lived 3 hours away drove up and collected all her belongings and moved her stuff out of the flat she shared with her boyfriend.
Then the flowers and gifts would be sent by her ex to my sisters house - and my sister was on to this and just collected them without my sister knowing.

I often wonder if people had not sprung to action to make it clear that his behaviour was completely wrong whether she would still be with him.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 10:12:30

That piece is great; thanks for posting the link MadBusLady. It's by Anna Maxted who I've always liked.

Hopefully it will do some good for others to see that DV isn't their fault because they're not pretty/organised/sexy/superwife, because if it happens to Nigella it can happen to anyone.

I've just read that piece and was going to link it here but glad to see it's already made it. It's very useful.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 11:08:39

Yep, the Telegraph have it spot on

I was just listening to the news in the car, and it said "the police are looking at picture evidence of a violent altercation between CS and ND"

wtf ???

it wasn't a "violent altercation"

he attacked her and she tried to appease him

for fucks sake

this this is what Nigella and other abused women are up against ! I despair...

OctopusPete8 Mon 17-Jun-13 11:10:15

How was there a camera man there at that exact minute?

Seems to me it's a restaurant that celebrities go to. People are prob paid to lurk qnd wait for stories of affairs, eating disorders or in this case, dv, to drop in their lap

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 11:31:15

or everyone in London media knows that he's an abusive shit and they had someone on him, or someone in her family tipped them off that he's an abusive shit, or she told someone to be there because she wants to leave him because he's an abusive shit.

seems to me that the reason why the photographer was able to sell the photos is because he's an abusive shit, the whys and wherefores of how the photographer came to be there (and anyway we don't know if it was a member of the public) are the least relevant elements of the story.

BeCool Mon 17-Jun-13 11:40:14

apparently NL & CS are regular patrons at Scotts.
And CS smokes so they sit outside

LesserOfTwoWeevils Mon 17-Jun-13 12:03:29

They eat there all the time and always sit in that spot. Pictures of them doing so are regularly published.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 12:09:03

That question doesn't compute, Pete

twofingerstoGideon Mon 17-Jun-13 12:11:18

OctopusPete8
Every man and his dog has a camera phone. If a famous couple regularly dine outside a top West End restaurant, why would they NOT expect to be photographed?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 12:13:45

or what anyfucker said.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 12:27:13

I am a Guardian reader but I am quite hacked off with this Roy Greenslade column about the People story. He basically suggests it was all fine because Nigella didn't immediately leave and gets a bit sneery about the tabloid approach to the story. I also really dislike the 'no one knows what happened but them' line.

mysterymeg Mon 17-Jun-13 12:43:32

I feel that the Loose Women are about to really piss me off on this subject as they are about to discuss the incident under the heading "do we know how to stop an argument going too far?" - is it just me or does that imply nigella is about to get some of the blame here?

mysterymeg Mon 17-Jun-13 12:45:28

I should really just turn over shouldn't I?

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 12:49:59

am watching LW right now

MissStrawberry Mon 17-Jun-13 12:54:06

CS has said it "was a playful tiff."

Holy crap!

mysterymeg Mon 17-Jun-13 12:54:14

And now apparently CS has released a statement describing it as a "playful tiff"!!!! sad

mysterymeg Mon 17-Jun-13 12:54:47

Crossed post missstrawberry

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 12:55:46

Yup. And many people will go along with it. Including Nigella, probably (for now, at least) sad

I hope she is quietly, carefully and secretly seeking appropriate help and support.

SirChenjin Mon 17-Jun-13 12:55:58

CS is an arse

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 12:57:20

Playful? The man looks like a giant toddler trying to wind up his 'mummy' and expecting not to be told off for it.

Spoilt, ugly wanker.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Mon 17-Jun-13 13:00:29

Oh that's priceless - grabbing someone by the throat is 'playful.' hmm angry

Might have known CS would be an utter twat about it though.

CaptChaos Mon 17-Jun-13 13:01:18

Snazzy that blog piece was just awful. He seems to blame Nigella for what happened and I agree, very sneery about red tops and how they have interpreted it.

I also hope she is quietly working her way out of this situation. Pulling someone's nose, placing your hands around someone's throat while shouting at them is not a 'playful tiff', it's abuse, and no amount of CS or his cronies minimising it will make it anything else.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 13:04:00

From the Telegraph today:

'However, breaking his silence about the incident, Mr Saatchi today issued a statement in which he sought to play down the significance of the row.

“About a week ago, we were sitting outside a restaurant having an intense debate about the children, and I held Nigella’s neck repeatedly while attempting to emphasise my point,” he told the Evening Standard.

“There was no grip, it was a playful tiff. The pictures are horrific but give a far more drastic and violent impression of what took place. Nigella’s tears were because we both hate arguing, not because she had been hurt.

“We had made up by the time we were home. The paparazzi were congregated outside our house after the story broke yesterday morning, so I told Nigella to take the kids off till the dust settled.”

'Yeah right' just about sums that up then hmm

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 13:05:46

However,

'Asked to comment on reports that she had moved out, her spokesman said: “I can clarify that she has left the family home with her children.”'

is better. I hope she doesn't go back.

And what point might that have been? hmm

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Mon 17-Jun-13 13:07:13

Learn to keep your hands to yourself Charles Saatchi while "emphasising your point." You fucking bully. angry

My children were taught that as TODDLERS.

Hmm, unless their argument was about the exact location of the jugular vein, I have no idea what point is better emphasised by a hand round the neck.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 13:11:25

As it's caught on camera and he can't deny it happened, his only PR option is to do what he has done and try to make out it's a misinterpretation. I notice he doesn't say what point he was making that can be helpfully emphasised by 'pretending' to throttle someone hmm

I imagine he is now putting pressure on her to appear in public with him looking happy and/or to say it's all fine. I hope she gets good advice and doesn't feel she has to just go along with anything.

CaptChaos I have complained to the readers' editor at the Guardian about it as it is so distasteful. Will be interested to see what response I get.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 13:12:38

It's a bit of a PR fail really isn't it.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 13:14:32

' I held Nigella’s neck repeatedly while attempting to emphasise my point,'

doesn't quite work does it in terms of trying to minimise it.

I mean people aren't going to read that and go 'Oh, well that's Ok then' are they. What a thick twat.

mysterymeg Mon 17-Jun-13 13:15:17

I hope that people will see through the ludicrous explanation. I think his statement has just made him look more guilty - she was crying because she was upset not because she was hurt. Oh that's ok then. hmm EA bastard at the very least then.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 13:16:15

can't we comment on the greenslade blog?

twofingerstoGideon Mon 17-Jun-13 13:17:22

I held Nigella’s neck repeatedly while attempting to emphasise my point

Yeah, right. As you do.

FFS

musickeepsmesane Mon 17-Jun-13 13:17:34

jeremy vine has just said">>>>even in a restuarant? You couldn't do any real harm in a restuarant?" THERE IS HARM BEING DONE she is being assaulted ffs

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 13:18:06

Aitch I looked for comments and couldn't see any on there

SirChenjin Mon 17-Jun-13 13:20:43

He really does appear to be losing his grasp on reality. Is that the best he could come up with? That's just one up from "a big boy did it and ran away"

chartreuse Mon 17-Jun-13 13:21:39

What a vile bully he is. I really hope this is a catalyst for Nigella. I find it so, so sad that a woman who is pretty much idolised all over the world thinks so little of herself that she accepts such appalling treatment.

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 13:22:10

On another thread I am on about this, apparently MrSaatchi has said it was "a playful tiff".

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 17-Jun-13 13:22:15

Oh, the old emphatic neck hold! Obviously! Now we all feel silly for thinking it was abuse don't we?

What an absolute cunt.

That 'explanation' has made me sick.

BoreOfWhabylon Mon 17-Jun-13 13:26:24

I too looked for a place to comment on the greenslade blog. I wanted to correct his statement re it being "crystal clear" that there had been no complaint to the police. I complained and was told by the 101 operator that they had received many other complaints, as a result of which the incident was being "investigated" (her word).

Greenslade would appear to be a sneering ill-informed arsewipe.

Salbertina Mon 17-Jun-13 13:26:36

Well, regardless of how this story was spun and it being placed in the less than savoury People, the photos seem to suggest abuse. Roy Greenslade's angle appalls me. Fair enough of him to question the media/twitter feeding frenzy and effect on their "brand" etc. But to doubt the legitimacy of the abuse accusations levelled at CS? shock At Grauniad doing this and big thumbs up to Telegraph for their sensitive, non-sensationalist article.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 13:30:05

Wow, he is off the map, isn't he. Totally lost his grip on reality. "Yes, I am an abusive twunt who uses physical force in arguments" would have been quicker and more to the point.

Amazingly, he can't have just come up with this himself, other people must have worked on it with him. So either they're all totally out of their tiny minds or he's a bully in his work life as well.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 13:33:24

Roy Greenslade never misses an opportunity to be a slightly reactionary old twat, particularly when it involves a chance to have a go at Twitter. A feature of several of the older male Guardian writers, actually.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 13:39:37

I also particularly disliked Greenslade's 'Before anyone else points it out, I'm aware that Nigella knows all about other kinds of feeding frenzies', which comes across as having a misogynistic pop at a woman who has just had a very painful and humiliating public experience.

Aitch No, no comment facility on the article. I have seen a few other negative comments so I hope something is done about it. Frankly it's embarrassing for the Guardian that they published it as it reads. I have to wonder whether Greenslade is a mate of Saatchi's, and because he is a journalism prof no editor wanted to say, 'erm, this is not really on'.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 13:41:47

As far as I can tell, the best place to complain about that piece is via reader@guardian.co.uk . I know it's secondary to the main events being discussed here but I think crappy media commentary on it should be called out as it is unhelpful to the whole perception of DV.

This explanation attempt makes it sound worse.

Jeremy Vine I hate you.

Is this a CS statement or issued as a joint statement?

tribpot Mon 17-Jun-13 13:45:40

Yes, I often find when I'm having a particularly heated discussion with work colleagues that I grab them around the throat to emphasise my point. Oh wait, I don't do that because (among other reasons) I would get the sack if I did so.

As to "do we know how to stop an argument going too far?" - Christ! What else can we be responsible for?

Salbertina Mon 17-Jun-13 13:48:01

Is it normally possible to comment on RG's column, anyone know? Wonder if they expected/sought (?) controversy and therefore deleted the comment option this one time.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 13:49:49

thanks, snazzy, have emailed.

MrsCampbellBlack Mon 17-Jun-13 13:51:50

A nice touch for him to mention they were arguing over the children hmm - it was probably all their fault hmm

fubbsy Mon 17-Jun-13 13:52:13

Yes I'm sure Greenslade/The Guardian were seeking controversy. Seems like they got their wish, as we are discussing it here and presumably generating traffic to their web site.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 13:52:55

I have certainly commented on RG's column before, probably to get arsey with him about something. Many of the columns seem to be hit and miss with their comment facility, sometimes with an explanation (eg potential for libel), sometimes not. We have been told before that it's a matter of the number of moderators available to cover the site.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 13:53:05

CS's "explanation" of what happened has made it look worse not better

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 13:58:35

Yes, he seems oblivious to the fact that his statement makes him look, if possible, even more of a cock.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 14:00:21

If the Guardian sought controversy in publishing the Greenslade column as it stands, then yes, we are sending traffic, but it also helps to let them know how distasteful it is. That's one reason to email and not just ignore. I expect better from them and would like them to know that.

Assuming he's found guilty of...what would it be? assault? what's likely to happen?

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 14:03:42

FGS I've just gone back to the Greenslade story and it's even worse now. They've edited it to include reference to Saatchi's appalling statement. But they've edited

It is, of course, deeply embarrassing for her and, even more so, for her husband.

to now read

It is, of course, deeply embarrassing for them both.

So now apparently it's equally embarrassing for the throttler abuser and the victim throttlee? I despair.

StillSeekingSpike Mon 17-Jun-13 14:04:58

'An intense debate'??? 'I held her neck repeatedly ... to emphasise my point'???? 'A play ful tiff'???
Better if he shut the fuck up, methinks angry

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 17-Jun-13 14:04:58

Nothing I would imagine Stealth, abusers who aren't powerful billionaires get a £200 fine and community service so I doubt much will happen to him.

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 17-Jun-13 14:05:11

Nothing I would imagine Stealth, abusers who aren't powerful billionaires get a £200 fine and community service so I doubt much will happen to him.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 14:05:28

They've taken out the sentence about Nigella knowing all about feeding frenzies. But the rest stands. Poor.

A £200 fine. Oh that'll learn him.

I've put his statement through my bullshit translator and it actually means "I'm am abusive cunt"

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 14:08:02

jesus wept. am so shocked.

mummy2benji Mon 17-Jun-13 14:10:15

“There was no grip, it was a playful tiff."

"Nigella’s tears were because we both hate arguing"

Which was it then, Charles, a playful tiff or an argument? Because it isn't a 'playful tiff' if she is in tears because she 'hates arguing', and if it was an argument then he couldn't have grabbed her round the neck in a 'playful tiff'. I think he shot himself in the foot with that comment attempting to justify his actions. He has as good as said that he grabbed her round the neck during an argument. Which means it was in frustration / anger.

I disagree with some of the posters who think it was right for onlookers not to intervene. I think you can (semi) justify not intervening due to indecision and onlookers thinking "what the heck should I do?" But I think it is wrong to take the stance that "oh this is clearly DV so if I intervene now it won't stop him doing something worse at home". No it won't but that's not the point!!! Not intervening is telling him that the public think it's okay, or don't care enough to intervene, and that he can get away with it. Why should he stop hurting her at home (rhetorical Q - I'm not saying that he is, I sincerely hope he isn't) if people essentially tell him it's okay to do it in public?!

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Mon 17-Jun-13 14:27:00

He is going to get away with it, isn't he?

So sad.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 14:28:45

Most of them do, FF sad

fubbsy Mon 17-Jun-13 14:30:47

Yes it seems like he will get away with it angry

I only hope the incident will be the catalyst for Nigella to LTB.

duchesse Mon 17-Jun-13 14:31:56

Nigella, if you're reading- this is NOT right. LTB!!

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 14:37:41

I think Nigella will be reading this, and all the other online commentary on her relationship.

Unless darling Charles has removed her internet access (not out of the realms of possibility)

He's maybe just suggested she doesn't go online for a few days. For her own good of course. Like leaving their home.

CaptChaos Mon 17-Jun-13 14:39:48

I do hope that she is reading this and other commentary (with the exception of the abuse apologist in the Guardian) and can see that there is hope, a way out and that the majority of the public will be supportive.

Have emailed the Guardian, not too sure how coherent I was though. This has been very triggering for me and, it seems, many many others.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 14:41:37

UMNetty hugs to Nigella if she is.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 14:42:43

Indeed, SPB. Just a "suggestion" mind, like the way he held her neck to make "suggestions" during their "playful tiff"

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 17-Jun-13 14:47:16
AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 14:48:59

< covers eyes >

SixPackWellies Mon 17-Jun-13 14:49:32

Dear Lord.

Poor man. Tries to make a joke about assault, as we've all done from time to time, and gets picked on for it. I hope he gets compensated for his hurt feelings.
TBH I was expecting something a lot worse from him. Fairly restrained for the scum that he is.

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 14:51:22

< peeps out >

Yup, no surprises there. That roly-poly buffoon of a man means no harm, of course. Yeah. Just a playful tiff you say Mr Saatchi, of course, now let me kiss your fat arse again.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 14:51:54

Imagine our surprise.

I`m so gobsmacked I just dont know what to say, if Nigella were, by some small chance, to read this, please just leave him. His statement is so bullying, so minimising, so disrespectful.

Yes Captchaos triggering for me too. He is an abuser, seen now for what hes worth, absolutely nothing.

Greythorne Mon 17-Jun-13 14:54:08

I wonder what people would do if the next time they went into a shop, a 6 foot, 16 stone bloke put his hands round their neck playfully?

Also, check out Saatchi's wiki page. He is listed as a wife throttler.

That must cheer CS up no end, having Nick Griffin supporting him.

In fact theat's the first adjective they use grin

duchesse Mon 17-Jun-13 15:03:59

Who can honestly say they haven't tried to joke about domestic violence every once in a while? Just a shame there are so many humourless bitches out there who don't know a good joke when they see it...

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 15:11:20

Indeed. Those humourless bitches don't like sex, either, do they.

duchesse Mon 17-Jun-13 15:15:50

Greythorne, <snigger>. The wife-throttler description keeps coming and going... People must be refreshing it every so often. {hint hint}

God I hope she finds the strength to get out. She looks so sad poor lady. He tried to pass it off as a playful tiff - Playful? There's no amusement in her eyes. What a wanker.

bico Mon 17-Jun-13 15:20:03

Interesting debate on Radio 5 at the moment with Louise Mensch commeting at how unacceptable his behaviour is.

jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 15:24:18

Please Nigella if you or your publicists are reading this - please please please get out!

duchesse Mon 17-Jun-13 15:41:29

CS's publicists certainly seem to be on the case...

piprabbit Mon 17-Jun-13 15:47:22

Does CS often grip the necks of people he is arguing with?
Does he choose to grip the necks of business colleagues, artists, staff when he needs to make a point?
Does he think it is OK to grip anyone/everyone by the neck? Or is it special treatment, that is only OK to use on his wife?
FFS.

jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 15:48:19

Nigella's people are www.markhutchinsonmanagement.co.uk/index.php

All I kind find is a statement saying she has the family home with her children - published in the telegraph.

So maybe just maybe there is hope....

jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 15:50:12
piprabbit Mon 17-Jun-13 15:55:43

Perhaps he grips his DCs throats when disputing a point with them? Or is that beyond the pale?

That was written by a woman!
"A quarrel where the husband jokingly puts his hands round his wife's throat and accidentally hurts her grows into a divorce-or-die situation."
She has to be the most naïve fool on the planet if she believes he put his hands around her neck as a joke and "accidentally hurt her".
And yes if there had been no photos it would have all blown over. And he would have got away with it, ready to hurt her worse next time. Would that have made you happy Christine? Or does she have to die before you decide that maybe, just maybe, assault within a marriage is wrong.

practicality Mon 17-Jun-13 15:59:34

Utterly despicable. Shame on her.

bico Mon 17-Jun-13 16:02:48

Typical of Cristina Odone. Interesting that there is no opportunity to leave comments. What Ms Odone fails to realise or chooses to ignore is this isn't the first time Saatchi has behaved like this in public and been photographed. I wonder how many times he has behaved in a similar fashion for no one other than his wife to witness.

twofingerstoGideon Mon 17-Jun-13 16:02:54

Christine Odone writes: A quarrel where the husband jokingly puts his hands round his wife's throat and accidentally hurts her grows into a divorce-or-die situation.

Jokingly?
Accidentally hurts her?

Christine Odone is either attention-seeking by being deliberately provocative, or is a complete plank.

twofingerstoGideon Mon 17-Jun-13 16:03:18

Sorry, that should say 'complete woman-hating plank.'

jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 16:04:49

yep stealthpolarbear that piece in the telegraph is written by a woman - a catholic woman.

Blows me away it really really does.

I really really hope someone can help her.

And some PR people will be making up stuff for the violent abuser. I really really hope some close friends or family help Nigella.

SecondRow Mon 17-Jun-13 16:05:29

Roy Greenslade also says: The incident took place seven days before it was published and the couple went on living happily together afterwards. (my emphasis)
And then the very next sentence goes on about any comments from the neighbours being hearsay. What the hell is that happily then? Not even hearsay, just pulled out of his arse I presume.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 17-Jun-13 16:08:34

SecondRow I pointed that out in my complaint by email. It's not at all logical to say that anyone else's comments are just hearsay when he freely states that they went on 'living happily together' - how would he know? Utter crap.

guessing if she's not dead she's assumed to be happy. because a bit of a slap or a choke every now and again is just what a loving husband does to keep his woman in her place, isn't it?

bleedingheart Mon 17-Jun-13 16:11:21

The Christine Odone article appears to be basically telling domestic abuse victims to put up and shut up. I can't understand why police shouldn't investigate an act of violence just because those involved are known to each other? What is she trying to say?
Disgraceful victim blaming.

BOF Mon 17-Jun-13 16:14:49

Odone is a professional troll.

Is odious odone friends with Saatchi ?

wundawoman Mon 17-Jun-13 16:28:54

CS's brushing off this incident as a "playful tiff" is typical of these powerful, high profile bullies, don't you think? They think they can behave however they like and are not accountable to anyone for their actions...

I see latest news that Stuart Hall got 15 months sentence. Wtf???? Another bully gets away with abuse...

So when I throttle DH later, playfully of course, I can say to the judge at the trial "But m'lord, I was only forcibly making my point" and I'll get off?
Utter bastard, hope his wizened cock gets the rot and falls off.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 16:37:50

Oh she's a Catholic. There you go then - marriage above everything.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 16:57:07

Odone I mean. Not all Catholics are like that about marriage but it is certainly a view held by some.

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 17:02:09

I know of a fair few Catholics who cringe when her name comes up. She is not helpful. To anyone, ever.

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Jun-13 17:22:43

Christine Odone is an odious troll. She can't possibly believe half the things she writes.

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Jun-13 17:25:48

I'm sure next time one of saatchi's art dealers disagrees with him he won't object to having said dealer put his hands playfully around his throat to emphasise his point.

I'll try it tomorrow actually, I've got a difficult case conference. If the client doesn't take mine and counsels advice I will put my hands around her throat, playfully but with emphasis until she agrees with me. Then she can leave my office in tears and I will tell the SRA it's all fine. I'm sure that will work.

Or maybe I will get struck off and she will call the police. I'll let you all know shall I?

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 17:35:30

From what I read of what Christine wrote a few years back, I thought she was ok.
Not any more.
Is she married?
So if her husband "jokingly" puts his hands around her throat.....
<I shudder>

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 17:36:48

There are other pictures about of Mr Saatchi putting his hand across her mouth to stop her speaking are'nt there?
Guess that was a joke too?
How many jokes has he played?

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Jun-13 17:38:23

He's clearly a really funny guy yam

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 17:42:49

Christine Odone seems to have worked with his brother Maurice

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9655013/Why-should-mourners-be-expected-to-move-on.html

AnyFucker Mon 17-Jun-13 17:43:10

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MummyAbroad Mon 17-Jun-13 17:45:01

My husband once put his hands round my throat. It took me two months to LTB. I bet that because of all this publicity it will take Nigella less time than that.

So, while I deplore celeb tabloid stories in general, I think its a good thing this has been publicised. Men like this should be named and shamed. Obviously its awful that Nigella is in the limelight too, but I think running this story will turn out to be a case of "being cruel to be kind" it will be much much harder for her to continue making excuses for him now.

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 17:45:03

The whole point of her article seemed to be that the marriage was under threat and this Cannot be Allowed to happen

as though however shitty your marriage, well, it's more important to stay within it than to have any sort of happiness or self respect.

Fine if that's what floats her boat but it looks out and out bizarre to most sane people.

grimbletart Mon 17-Jun-13 17:57:15

I see the story is making it to Channel 4 News tonight.

tribpot Mon 17-Jun-13 17:58:41

Abusive men probably shouldn't threaten marriage, along with their wives, then. Too obvious a conclusion?

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 17:59:28

Did someone say that Nigella is a Catholic?

tribpot Mon 17-Jun-13 18:02:33

I think Odone is the Catholic referred to above. Wiki lists Nigella as an atheist - she is of Jewish heritage.

KristinaM Mon 17-Jun-13 18:03:27

Years ago I had a bF who was violent to me. When were on holiday abroad and eating in the hotel restaurant, he behaved just like Nigellas husband in these photos. He stormed off up to our room and I sat alone trying not to cry, scared to follow him.

A group of women at the bar saw me alone and invited me to join them. One took me aside and said she had seen what happened and asked me if he was abusive. O course I'd never seen it that way -I just thought he had a bit of a temper and thought it was my faulty for winding him up,that I should be more sympathetic and understanding of his problems etc

She told me she was a women aid worker/volunteer and , to cut a long story short,to LTB. When I returned to the UK I got some support and I did leave. I'm forever grateful to that women. It it wasn't for her I might have stayed with him for years , got married or had kids with him

I got out when I was young , had no ties and before I was seriously hurt.not everyone is so lucky

RoooneyMara Mon 17-Jun-13 18:05:49

Thanks Trib - no, I didn't mean Nigella is Catholic. I'd never talk about her so dismissively for a start.

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 18:20:17

Ah yes, I seem to remember that she is of Jewish descent.
I wanted to say to her, if she ever reads this, that it is ok to seperate from him. She doesnt have to divorce him if she doesnt want to, but seperating is fine.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 17-Jun-13 18:28:26

Ahem

MadBusLady Mon 17-Jun-13 18:32:20

We are fine! <good face> It's the "Can't believe so many women are defending Saatchi" thread that looks like it might kick off a bit.

The BBC news have just reported that she and her children have left the family home. And that Charles Saatchi has said it was a 'playful tiff'. hmm

If that's a playful tiff then I guess the Battle of Waterloo was a small disagreement over a bar bill between a Brit, a Prussian and a Frenchman?

NaturalBlondeYeahRight Mon 17-Jun-13 19:15:31

Isn't it funny how absolutely no one (ex wives/friends/family etc) is defending CS? Says quite a lot I think.

tribpot Mon 17-Jun-13 19:18:44

I thought Nick Griffin was defending him? Although as the saying goes - 'with friends like these .. '

piprabbit Mon 17-Jun-13 19:23:56

I don't think Nick Griffin was actually defending CS - just chipping in that he (NG) quite fancied groping NL, you know, just in case anyone thought that was interesting or appropriate.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight Mon 17-Jun-13 19:26:52

I thought NG just made a horrible joke, maybe I hadn't seen all of it.
I meant people who really know him though, for example my last serious partner before DH cheated and so got dumped for being a twat. He was lovely apart from that shock. If he was accused of something similar I would say 'well that never happened to me in x years'. Maybe that's too simplistic.

I wish people would stop abbreviating Nigella to NL. Usually that means me. I've had several funny turns reading posts with that in since Saturday but the idea of being groped by Nick Git Griffin was the final straw!

piprabbit Mon 17-Jun-13 19:32:27

Sorry Northern - I can see why that would be a shock.

It's set me right back I can tell you! grin

I may be suffering from some sort of fear of groping fascists now......

mummy2benji Mon 17-Jun-13 19:38:05

Ugh just read Cristina Odone's article in the Telegraph as mentioned above. Of public reaction to the photos, she says "how can Charles Saatchi read such comments without feeling accused and convicted of a foul crime?" shock Uh, how about, don't-throttle-your-wife-in-the-first-place Charles Saatchi, and you won't have to face public criticism. hmm What a pathetic piece of writing.

piprabbit Mon 17-Jun-13 19:38:23

Randinicophobia.

jollyhappy Mon 17-Jun-13 20:18:40

yamsareyammy thanks for pointing out the link of CS and
Christine Odone.

I really really hope Nigella gets out.

yamsareyammy Mon 17-Jun-13 21:21:25

I now automatically think that if a "top" person is defending bad behaviour in another "top" person, that is because they know each other.
So I just googled the two names.

When I was young and naive, I could not understand how a famous person ended up going out with or meeting another famous person! [this was pre celebrity magazines].
Now I realise the opposite is true. That they are all mixing with each other.

Amazinggg Mon 17-Jun-13 21:25:12

Thanks for the email address of how to complain to the Guardian - done.

I'm as lefty as they come, read it daily, and am sickened that they don't give domestic violence proper treatment. It's fucking disgusting. Equality for all eh Guardian, not wives though hmm

FairPhyllis Tue 18-Jun-13 04:41:29

Charles Saatchi has accepted a caution for assault: Telegraph

So it wasn't just a 'tiff' then, was it Charles?

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 05:08:43

Good.

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 05:13:54

Good.

duchesse Tue 18-Jun-13 08:12:36

Good comment in the Express.

MarshaBrady Tue 18-Jun-13 08:15:18

Pleased it has changed from playful tiff to cautioned for assault.

That is a good piece in the Express Duchesse. I would never want to someody to endure what Nigella has this weekend but at least the publicity over this issue has shone a spotlight on abuse in relationships and there has been plenty of comment drawing attention to issues why women don't 'just leave'. There's been a lot talked about control and the structure within which abuse occurs and that can only be helpful for women. Of course we have the idiot Odone et al too but at least they've been challenged and the fact that he has been cautioned is the clearest indication of what really went on. Anybody else's husband been cautioned for a 'playful tiff'? Nope, mine neither.

bico Tue 18-Jun-13 09:18:42

Many many years ago I spent time working in a leading divorce law firm. It was a depressing as it gets. The only difference being that the clients were hugely wealthy. I felt so sorry for the children, many of whom witnessed their parents behaviour towards one another (on the odd occasion they were actually in the same country/house as their parents and not at school). At least one time a couple chose to start attacking each other at their child's sports day. Having lots of money doesn't protect you from DV at all.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Tue 18-Jun-13 09:47:17

This blog briefly considers the implications of the caution but the key one, as a police officer said on another thread (sorry can't remember poster's name) is that he has admitted assault, in contrast to the denial of it in his issued public statement.

Back2Two Tue 18-Jun-13 09:48:50

I think that's a really good piece in the Express. I'm amazed actually. It's really concise and effective.

duchesse Tue 18-Jun-13 10:14:30

I wonder if Russell Brand will write something about this. I have been amazed and delighted by the thoughtfulness and articulacy of his articles over the last year. He does take a few days to produce them though.

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 10:39:25

Full credit to the tabloids tbh for breaking the story and persisting with it. The express piece is brilliant. As a DV survivor it really touched me.

The broadsheets seem to have lost sight of the issue blinded by the glamour and wealth of the parties involved.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 18-Jun-13 10:57:27

Chub the broadsheet editors are probably scared that they won't be invited to parties any longer if they make an issue of it.

RoooneyMara Tue 18-Jun-13 11:21:05

this is quite shocking...don't know if Saatchi is a product of the cultural inequalities in Iraq, because I don't know his background - but it says:

Violence Against Women
Gender-based violence in Iraq is one of the
factors preventing women’s full political, social,
and economic participation. Domestic violence,
honour killings, and human trafficking remain
a threat to many Iraqi women and girls due to a
complex mix of misconceptions in cultural beliefs
and traditions. Most of the violence against
women occurs at home. 46% of girls aged 10-14
were exposed to violence at least once by a family
member. 46% of currently married women were
exposed to at least one form of spousal violence:
44.5% to emotional violence, 5.5% to physical
violence, and 9.3% to sexual violence. Sexually violent
situations with a spouse are reportedly faced once or twice per month by 38.3% of women
and almost daily by 3.4% of women.

51% of women aged 15-49 believe that a
husband has the right to hit or beat his wife in
some circumstances.

I wonder if this is relevant at all?

PoppyAmex Tue 18-Jun-13 11:25:29

That's interesting Rooney.

He did move to England when he was 10 years old and his family is, of course, Jewish so they wouldn't follow anything like Sharia Law, would they? <ignorant>

RoooneyMara Tue 18-Jun-13 11:27:48

I've no idea...but I wondered if he might have been exposed to some disrespectful treatment of women early in his life. You know, to make him think it was acceptable.

RoooneyMara Tue 18-Jun-13 11:29:13

I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour at all, btw...just to analyse it, given very little to go on really.

PoppyAmex Tue 18-Jun-13 11:42:52

I know where you're coming from, but I get the feeling that in his case it might be an innate character flaw. He genuinely seems to think he's above everyone else.

BeCool Tue 18-Jun-13 11:58:32

I'm sure there are many factors from my ex's childhood and upbringing that affected his views towards women/relationships and helped shaped his unacceptable EA behaviour. Goodness knows I spent too many years trying to work out what is was that could cause such a lovely man to behave in such an arse of a way on such a regular basis.

Eventually, thankfully I got it (as many women in these situations do):
A: he is a selfish overly entitled arse
& B: He CHOOSES to behave like this.

As does Saatchi.

End of.

Oh come on, ladies. How many of you haven't had a partner or husband put his hands round your throat during a playful tiff, or haven't done it yourself??

How in the name of fuck did he think that was a justification of what he did?? The layers of this just beggar belief - he thought it was OK to throttle his wife in public, he thought calling it a playful tiff would make it OK, he thought we would believe that Nigella wasn't crying because he was hurting her, but because she doesn't like arguing (newsflash, Charles - maybe she doesn't like arguing because you get physical and abuse her when the two of you argue) - and he thought issuing that statement would make us all go, 'OK then, that's fine'!

I just hope that Nigella stays the hell away from him now and forever.

Abusers always think they are entitled to abuse, regardless of their cultural/religious background or status. I, for one, am decidedly uninterested in understanding why Saatchi thinks it is OK to choke his wife - to see where he is coming from is to adopt his warped perspective, at least to some degree. He is a despicable bully.

Meanwhile, after an appalling article in the Guardian yesterday so many of us complained about, Greenslade writes an apology.

I like how perceptions of DV are changing. The only people defending Saatchi are professional trolls with religious agendas, who fail to see women as human.

lottieandmia Tue 18-Jun-13 12:14:31

This is dreadful. Poor Nigella sad

What happens behind closed doors, that's all I can say.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Tue 18-Jun-13 12:19:32

oh yes i just got an email from reader's ed about that. fair play to him, he's an old man and no doubt as prejudiced as the next person, probably just needed to think a bit before he typed that piece.

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 12:21:20

Full marks to greenslade for his apology.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 18-Jun-13 12:38:15

Fair play to Greenslade, that is a proper apology.

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 12:41:52

Gosh, yes! That's how you do a mea culpa.

PoppyAmex Tue 18-Jun-13 12:43:21

I agree MadBusLady; completely unreservedly with no undertones of passive agressive shit. Guess he was humbled by the public backlash.

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 12:46:39

I wonder if the odious Odone has anything to say?

Greythorne Tue 18-Jun-13 12:48:42

Good one, Roy. Much respect.

Apart from acknowledging the public outrage, what I think also comes through in Greenslade's piece is an understanding of having failed a vulnerable friend. How his reluctance to judge too quickly actually leaves an assaulted victim alone.

I wish more friends and family members of victims were able to spot abuse and call it for what it is. DV would be far less common a phenomenon if we all judged the perpetrators more and the victims less.

God, not only is this an awful story for all involved - and I feel desperately uncomfortable for NL's children the more I learn of her and CS's relationship - but it has proved absolutely fascinating how the media have handled it.

The People splash it, the Telegraph get it right first (then oh so wrong..), the Guardian completely stuff it up, the Express, or all places, publish some incisive comment. I don't know if it's because of who it involves, two people who are so utterly central to the British media establishment, but it's like all the usual rules have been torn up and every editor is handling it alone rather than in a pack mentality. Very odd, and very revealing.

PoppyAmex Tue 18-Jun-13 12:56:22

April and the Evening Standard publishes his ridiculous statement (and probably continues to employ him as a columnist).

ProphetOfDoom Tue 18-Jun-13 12:58:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I haven't seen the Standard for years Poppy.

Just l looked online and OHMYFUCKINGGOD

'hanging over ALL of us' ?!?!?!

Words completley fail me.

PoppyAmex Tue 18-Jun-13 13:02:29

April, how nasty is that?

I had written to the Evening Standard two days ago asking if they were going to cease listing him as a columnist. No answer, unsurprisingly.

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 13:06:13

I call complete bullshit on this. Unless and until she makes a supporting statement, I am going to assume he is just like any other abuser - desperately denying, minimising and bullshitting in whatever way it takes to maintain his self-image.

Spot on, MadBusLady.

fubbsy Tue 18-Jun-13 13:14:13

He accepted a caution because he did not want it to go to court. It's obviously a tactical decision.

Chubfuddler Tue 18-Jun-13 13:16:50

She has permitted her publicist to confirm she and the children have left the family home. She has said nothing to back up his claims. I think the position is probably pretty clear.

I hope she is divorce lawyer shopping as I type.

Rolf Tue 18-Jun-13 13:22:16

AprilFoolishness great post. It's really interesting isn't it?
Good apology from Greenslade.
I think Nigella's silence is the smartest and most eloquent strategy she could go for. I hope it is strategic, and not stemming from a position of foetal duvet-hugging paralysis.

fubbsy Tue 18-Jun-13 13:32:21

I think it is strategic Rolf. However she may feel, Nigella must have advice from her publicists, PRs and so forth.

MarshaBrady Tue 18-Jun-13 13:36:41

I dearly hope she has left him. There's no 'we' are doing this if she has left.

nauticant Tue 18-Jun-13 13:46:49

Good contributions by MadBusLady and AprilFoolishness on this thread.

Saatchi will be looking to get Lawson publicly back on side over this, otherwise it's complete defeat, and so his tactics appear to be to present a "a bit of bother but things will be back to normal soon" story. This gives Lawson the "easy" option of going along with it or the difficult and unpleasant one of being forced to go on the offence.

BoffinMum Tue 18-Jun-13 16:38:00

Bico I used to teach the offspring of those families and there was at least one situation where a peer of the realm beat the fuck out of his wife and children, another where a parent smashed his sons in the face in the Bentley in front of another kid who was on a play date, and another where a QC verbally humiliated his wife and children in front of the teachers.

Disgusting.

FWIW I think Saatchi is a total smuck and he must think we are idiots if he is passing that off as a tiff. Except of course he does think the little people are idiots.

BoffinMum Tue 18-Jun-13 16:47:10

I was battered about by a (then) fairly high profile media figure in my former life, and left. I am tempted to out myself, but then again not sure.

TheRealMBJ Tue 18-Jun-13 17:02:32

Boffin you should do what ever protects you and helps protect others. That may or may not be going public. But first and foremost, look after yourself

EmmelineGoulden Tue 18-Jun-13 17:04:29

Very sad to hear the Met buckled and cautioned him. Leaves Nigella in a very vulnerable position.

Guidelines for the justice system on domestic violence said that cautions are rarely appropriate for good reason.

BoffinMum Tue 18-Jun-13 17:05:00

Probably shouldn't then. Wise advice.

TheRealMBJ Tue 18-Jun-13 17:06:51

You can help other victims/survivors of DV in other ways perhaps?

nauticant Tue 18-Jun-13 17:41:23

If they do divorce, I wonder who'll get this painting as part of the settlement:

http://www.saatchionline.com/art/Unknown-The-wife-beater/70423/543742/view

nauticant Tue 18-Jun-13 17:42:29
scallopsrgreat Tue 18-Jun-13 17:43:10

Boffin I wouldn't (although I can understand why you want to). We believe you.

I have a theory in progress that there is a correlation between men in high positions and DV. The sense of entitlement acquired and the selfishness required to get to the top of your profession are the same qualities found in abusive partners.

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 17:46:57

Baha, good spot nauticant!

scallopsrgreat Tue 18-Jun-13 17:53:35

Ha very appropriate nauticant!

Smudging Tue 18-Jun-13 18:30:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoffinMum Tue 18-Jun-13 19:40:13

Scallops, I think many of them are total narcissists, seriously. They think they are different and special and the rest of us are fundamentally flawed.

In fact I used to get little lists left around the house for me of all the things I just needed to do 'to improve'. I was kicked in the stomach for inadvertently interrupting him on the phone once, for example, because it was an 'important work call' and once dragged across DD's bedroom with my arm behind my back because I had attached a lock to the door of our ensuite loo, as I was fed up of the housekeeper walking in on me (no privacy was ever allowed for me). I was shut up at dinner parties and told what a fool I had made of myself after we got home, This is how upmarket thugs operate in the home. Betcha any money NL is getting doses of this and it's being passed off as marital quarrelling because she can be 'difficult' and 'moody'. I bet she even believes this herself.

Then there is my friend, who lived next door to another friend and happened to share a make of baby alarm. Those houses cost a couple of mill. They heard her top lawyer DH over the baby alarm sometimes ranting aggressively at his wife. He never actually hit her, to their knowledge. But the verbal abuse was terrible. She had given her own career up to breed on demand for him as well. Nothing we could do, believe me.

It's really, really dark stuff.

practicality Tue 18-Jun-13 19:50:39

Boffin- that is absolutely dreadful. I don't know if it would be wise for you to out this creature due to legal repercussions. Was any of the violence documented? I understand the need/urge to though.

Although I know Nigella is not at fault in the slightest I know I will judge if she goes back to him because as anyone knows who has lived with an abuser- it never stops.

yamsareyammy Tue 18-Jun-13 20:19:42

I am not getting this Boffin.
Why is there nothing you can do now about what happened to you?

I think I am right in saying that it is possible to put something on record with the police, but to ask for it not to be taken any further.
But then, if someone else comes along and makes a complaint, there are then 2 records on the police file.

yamsareyammy Tue 18-Jun-13 20:21:14

practicality. It can take lots of abuse, and lots of times of attempted leaving, before someone leaves a situation like that for good.

scallopsrgreat Tue 18-Jun-13 20:57:02

Oh Boffin sad That all sounds scarily familiar. I have had a relationship with a very well known and successful man in his field. The whole improving thing rings such bells. It wasn't lists (but I wouldn't have put it past him). He used to tell people how much he had improved me and every time I was in the kitchen cooking he would tell me how I should be making what ever it was. And there were always the little suggestions about how to behave and what to wear. Fuck. The. Fuck. Off.

And the putting down in public too. I wasn't spoken to for days if I disagreed with him in front of other people. He slapped me across the face at a party for speaking to another man. Nobody said anything.

I went out briefly with another businessman and he smashed up the house around me when I put the phone down on his new girlfriend (so many reasons why that relationship was brief grin)

It's eerie how the same things are replicated throughout abusive relationships. It's like there is a template.

BoffinMum Tue 18-Jun-13 22:54:19

Yup Scallops. the one I lived with used to have taxis in account, then sit in the back yelling JEEEEEESESFUCKINGCHRIST CAN YOU NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!!! all the way into central London, when TBH nobody at his office where he did his Big Important Media Job even particularly cared whether he was five minutes late or not.

joanofarchitrave Tue 18-Jun-13 23:08:53

I'm glad to see a bit of follow-up to Roy Greenslade's article, but I do feel a bit hmm that nobody saw anything wrong in him writing the original article about a close friend without acknowledging it.

I remember posting on here years and years ago that I wished British journalists had to say what their connection was to the subject/person in the article at all times. 'Fantastic Book... written by my wife's best friend who I see most weekends' for example. 'Scandalous Experience.... of my brother-in-law'. I would say that journalists should recuse themselves from any involvement in a story that affects people they know, but how would the papers be filled?

Snazzywaitingforsummer Wed 19-Jun-13 01:11:34

joan I did mention this on the other Nigella thread in chat. I think it's a poor excuse and, as I said there, he really should have considered just not writing the article if his position as a friend (of NL only or both of them, I wonder?) was going to compromise it in any way. And frankly I think he's let her down as a friend by writing an article that is so determined not to condemn violence against her.

yamsareyammy Wed 19-Jun-13 21:13:21

Had a bit of an ephiny.
Had a relook at one of Boffins links on the first page.
It says that Saatchi and Nigella hardly spend anu time apart from each other.
I know a few couples like this.
I used to think it was a bit endearing, but too emotionally stifling for my personal taste.
But is the real reason because one person is trying to control the other?

scallopsrgreat Wed 19-Jun-13 21:19:27

That would be my suspicion yams, yes.

BoffinMum Thu 20-Jun-13 10:26:34

I don't think you can assume that but it might be the case here. Not enough evidence to tell.

jollyhappy Thu 20-Jun-13 15:25:38

So Nigella has been seen without her wedding ring on.

And if I am correct CS has gone back to the same restaurant????

yamsareyammy Thu 20-Jun-13 15:44:32

Good re wedding ring.
His 2nd ex wife thinks he is being treated unfairly!
And doesnt want this to be part of his legacy.
I have noticed before hoe "top" people are concerned about their legacies.

As far as I can see with legacies though, is that unless you are say a royal , or politician, you are all but forgotten after 50 years.
100 years at the most for eg the likes of Charlie Chaplin or Walt Disney.

yamsareyammy Thu 20-Jun-13 15:45:16

the not hoe!

SirChenjin Thu 20-Jun-13 17:56:11

I think the key, if you are concerned about your legacy, is to make sure you don't balls it up and do something so horrific that it overshadows your other work. You know, like putting your hands round your wife's throat.

Chubfuddler Thu 20-Jun-13 17:56:43

^^

Yup.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 20-Jun-13 18:58:32

did anyone hear the nick clegg interview?

Chubfuddler Thu 20-Jun-13 18:59:18

No. What's he said now?

Chubfuddler Thu 20-Jun-13 19:01:03

Just read it.

Not got the best track record has he?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 20-Jun-13 20:44:28

on the one hand, i think he at least tried to answer. most of them wouldn't have bothered. it's just a shame he fucked it all up.

as i said on the other thread, though. if i had seen them and known who it was, NO WAY would i have intervened. just... cos. i think i would have still been processing who the fuck it was.

and if i hadn't... i almost certainly would have tried to catch her eye afterwards, and might have tried to catch a surreptitious snap of it and seen if the police wanted it as evidence.

so it's a tough question, because the truth is really not great.

Chubfuddler Thu 20-Jun-13 20:47:08

No I can't imagine I would have intervened. Not in between sleb A and sleb B.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 20-Jun-13 21:06:17

because they're slebs... which is ridiculous, but i know it would have put me off.

Chubfuddler Thu 20-Jun-13 21:07:39

I know.

It's a hidden in plain sight kind of thing isn't it?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 20-Jun-13 21:18:10

even more frightening for her, one imagines.

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 14:48:10

Just some thoughts:

1. Re bystanders not doing anything - I don't blame anyone for not intervening, even a reporter. We never know how we are going to react to violence.

2. We don't know the circumstances of CS and his ex wive/s and their arrangement - I imagine they have some kind of clause where they can't say too much.

3. Nigella must have economic independence I really really hope her family help her. She did a who do you think you are and she has a sister and brother - I really hope they help her out of the CS situation.

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 15:17:43

But not even phoning the police?? In what other circumstance would so many people do nothing having witnessed someone putting their hands round someone in public? I can imagine not wanting to get involved personally, but a call to the police surely?

duchesse Fri 21-Jun-13 15:20:21

Loads of people don't intervene if they see a DV situation. That's one of the horrifying things about DV- it's almost normalised and tolerated. Even the police until very recently.

It's almost as though people think "the victim wants to be abused, else why would they stay?" Which is one of the myths about DV- that the victim feels they have a choice not to endure it. DV doesn't start with physical violence or the victim would be out the door very quickly. It's a lot more subtle and corrosive than that.

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 16:54:02

I'm sure lots of people don't intervene - that's the awful thing, but I was sure lots would call the police at least. Apparently no-one did, and I just can't get my head round that.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 21-Jun-13 17:17:26

bystander effect, innit? and the assumption that someone else will have done it.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 21-Jun-13 17:17:43

(if it even crossed their minds in the first place).

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 18:03:59

Yeah, probably sad

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 19:35:34

I wrote up thread how my sister was hit in a pub by her then boyfriend and only one person intervened and got her to safety - no one called the police.

Another instance I know is where a colleagues son intervened in a domestic violence situation (again in public) and guess what the thugs friends came and hit him afterwards so badly he ended up in hospital with broken ribs and black eyes. End result he was too scared to make a police complaint.

Amazinggg Fri 21-Jun-13 19:44:47

It sounds to me like Nick Clegg hadn't actually seen the pictures, and was trying to improvise an answer based on not offending anyone.

To be honest, anyone who saw those pictures, really looked at them properly. and didn't know it was domestic violence IMO is a fucking misogynist.

So I hope he just didn't see them. I'd rather he was a twattish politician, making up 'the right answer' despite not knowing arse all about it, than a DV apologist.

emilialuxembourg Fri 21-Jun-13 22:25:51

Many years ago I witnessed a close friend of hers being hideously verbally abused by her husband. In fact its the only domestic abuse I've ever witnessed. Is it the norm in their milieu?

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 22:29:03

Wow Emillia - out of interest did you do anything - no judgement either way?

One would hope it would not be the norm but boffinmum and others may know better?

emilialuxembourg Fri 21-Jun-13 22:35:39

No I didn't. I was young. Ididn't know what domestic abuse was in fact its only thanks to mumsnet that I do now.

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 22:42:51

ok.

You know i hope that this incident really spells out to everyone just how damaging DV is.

I really hope that women will not let this story die.

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 22:47:02
KristinaM Fri 21-Jun-13 23:07:16

Link isn't working for me, is this it?

ouryve Fri 21-Jun-13 23:25:53

Gosh. I shouldn't have read that, after a few drinks sad

jollyhappy Fri 21-Jun-13 23:38:09

Yes that is it KristinaM sorry I should have put a warning that it could upset people!

BoffinMum Sat 22-Jun-13 20:38:04

I think it's probably not the norm, I assumed it was the same likelihood as other groups in society.

Animation Mon 24-Jun-13 08:38:37

I was also wondering how he is with her children. Apparently the argument had been about her children. I hope her instincts to protect them (if not herself) remains intact if he is unkind or unfair to them.

PoppyAmex Mon 24-Jun-13 21:18:31

"Speaking to the Evening Standard, he said: 'Even domestic goddesses sometimes have a bit of snot in their nose. I was trying to fish it out'.

What's wrong with this man?

duchesse Mon 24-Jun-13 21:27:53

He is a sociopath, I can't think of any other explanation.

WhentheRed Mon 24-Jun-13 23:41:01

The more he speaks, the harder he makes it for her to return to him and maintain her credibility.

Snazzywaitingforsummer Mon 24-Jun-13 23:48:41

I am yet again shock that this is someone who had a successful advertising career, built on the idea that he could communicate well with the public, sell them a story and understand what mattered to them. He sounds like someone who's just landed from Mars.

chartreuse Thu 27-Jun-13 08:41:54

Really pleased to see that she has moved all her things out of their house. I hope this is a new start for her. His explanation about pushing her nose just added insult to injury. Nasty man.

CaptChaos Thu 27-Jun-13 09:39:04

According to the Daily Fail. This wasn't domestic violence because he is a 'volatile' man and she is a goddess, not some pathetic victim.

I really need to get the tea and kittens app!

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2348439/Charles-Saatchis-monster-Nigella-Lawsons-battered-wife-Carol-Sarler.html

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