'Interesting' blog post

(64 Posts)
StickEmUp Wed 13-Mar-13 22:29:28

While thinking about maternal rights i came across this blog, the latest post is a bit strange.
I dont understand the thinking.
hikinghumanist.com/

StickEmUp Wed 13-Mar-13 22:31:21

Actually i worded that wrong, i know about this blog, i quite like the vigour she seems to have for her beliefs and this latest pst seemed to fit a discussion earlier.

StickEmUp Wed 13-Mar-13 22:32:03

Vigour- except i don't agree - gosh i need an edit button at this time of night!

WoTmania Thu 14-Mar-13 11:20:15

I think she's of the view (as are quite a few women I know) that mat. leave etc comes under wanting 'more rights than men'.
I don't agree I think that paid parental leave is a good thing, although I think it should be parental rather than maternity leave.

She says: 'Maternity leave? Save your vacation time and save your money, just like anyone else who takes time off. Nine months is plenty of time to prepare and plan. If you can’t do that, you probably shouldn’t be reproducing anyway.' not taking into account that for many mothers/parents saving is almost impossible due to high living costs, you don't get that much holiday and in the UK SMP isn't very high in any case.

rosabud Thu 14-Mar-13 12:21:41

It also doesn't take into account that women have to gve birth physically but men don't. So, technically, men can have a job and become parents without having to take a day off or use up their holiday leave. Women do have to have at least some time off in order to become a parent and have a job. Thus men have an advantage over women which maternity leave, in its most basic form, is trying to redress. But, I agree, that it is also good when this is, after the initial physical giving birth it is over with, seen as parental leave which can be shared.

Trekkie Thu 14-Mar-13 19:26:45

In many jobs you can't carry forward more than a few days holiday from a previous year.

eg In my job I get 5 weeks a year and could carry forward 1, that would mean a 6 week mat leave.

Factor in that many women can't work right up until they go into labour, and on the other side many women have long recovery times, and it's not doable. Even before you think about BF and whether it's desirable to have women make a choice between going back FT (as the author wants) when the baby is 3 weeks old, or giving up her job.

I do not see that as a feminist stance.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa Thu 14-Mar-13 20:08:45

I used to feel like this, in fact I used to be militantly childfree (mainly for overpopulation issues, that still concern me) but have somewhat changed my mind.

We need the next generation for many reasons, so it's a fact people will have children. It's in the baby's best interests to have some bonding/settling time with the parents. Currently this time is allocated only to women thus women may miss promotions/pension contributions/not get hired if of childbearing age etc.; so of course it's a feminist issue.

Splitting the parental leave evenly would help redress the balance.

I get what the author's saying about the burden on companies but SMP is already heavily subsidised by the government. Recruiting a temp can inconvenience the company but it's an investment made in the next generation. The generation that will be driving our buses in the future, developing new drug therapies, looking after us in care homes etc.

Hope that gets my views across; I'm not terrible eloquent grin

samandi Fri 15-Mar-13 12:40:03

She seems rather silly and naive. And no, mothers certainly shouldn't be forced to use their holidays for recovering from childbirth/caesareans.

I disagree with the whole thing about employers being responsible for work/life balance anyway. I think employers do have a responsibility, however slight, for their employees' welfare. People should not have to choose between having a job and having a fulfilling life.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 13:27:39

It's just a whole of woman-hating shit.

Especially the bit of the end, where she blames mothers for employer's sexism. If only we didn't demand maternity leave, employers would not be reluctant to take us on!

I was going to post on the blog but just can't be arsed tbh. Someone like this has taken on the idea that having children is a bloody nuisance marginal thing women insist on doing, not integral normal necessity for society, which needs to be structured to enable it to happen without disadvantaging the people who are doing it.

It's the difference between liberal and radical feminism.

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 14:18:09

It's simplistic and lazy thinking. She's influenced by patriarchal values about what work should be and she may have got some facts wrong (e.g. flexible working = less productivity). D-

vesuvia Fri 15-Mar-13 14:45:27

Quote from the blog : "Maternity leave? Save your vacation time and save your money, just like anyone else who takes time off. Nine months is plenty of time to prepare and plan. If you can’t do that, you probably shouldn’t be reproducing anyway."

In the country where the blogger lives, annual leave from work is usually less than 15 days.

A maximum of 15 days maternity leave? I don't think that would be best for women. Perhaps the blogger could give 15 days maternity leave a test run during her own pregancy and blog about her experiences of that?

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 18:00:26

Ok couldn't resist. Have started to argue with her. WHY? Why am I bothering?

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 18:01:03

<runs off to look>

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 18:07:01

I wonder whether there's more to her perspective than straightforward social analysis. She has taken against mothers for some reason, in the same way our beloved DM readers take against benefit claimants. She's also unwilling to think about how she's socialised into a patriarchal view of work. Do you want an ally on the comments section? grin

rosabud Fri 15-Mar-13 18:16:42

Ok couldn't resist. Have started to argue with her. WHY? Why am I bothering?

Well done! Never give in! smile

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 18:40:32

Arf

Just seen u prom.

I think she's got some kind of hang up tbh so am trying to back away.

Am really confused by why she thinks she's a feminist tbh.

She sounds like she really hates mothers.

AbigailAdams Fri 15-Mar-13 18:52:25

Oh PromQueen I think the DM is partial to a bit of mother-bashing too. They like to spread their disdain and misogyny in a large circle grin. Also going in for a peak...

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 19:06:59

You're right Abigail, of course! But I suspect their readers would only openly identify with the lovely "single mum of 17 on benefits living in mansion with swimming pool" as actual bashing. The rest passes under the radar!

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 19:37:53

Good gracious, she's just a reactionary bigot with a pinch of aggressive superiority complex chucked in for good measure. I won't be returning to her blog as I like my blood pressure where it is.

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 20:30:33

I looked at her 'about' section - she's CFBC which expoains a lot. They are particularly child/mother hating IME (*disclaimer - not all are by any measure but those that are are very intolerant of children and parents. ) and like to tell each other exactly what parents are doing wrong.

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 20:35:22

What is CFBC?

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 20:36:07

child free by choice

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 20:37:52

She doesn't say she's a feminist either does she, she's a humanist, whatever that means.

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 20:50:24

not sure I get your point but what she does say that feminists who want mat leave etc have got it wrong...'Special treatment for moms just for being moms is NOT feminist.' and 'So thanks, fake-feminist natalism-worshippers. Your attempts to garner special treatment for certain women for their lifestyle choices is creating a huge step backwards for gender-equality, real feminism.'

IsBella Fri 15-Mar-13 20:52:51

She's one of those modern feminists who hate women. grin

samandi Fri 15-Mar-13 20:59:32

She doesn't seem particularly feminist to me. Her views are more along anti-feminist lines - women have to fit in with traditional patriarchal systems either by being traditional women or by being "one of the boys".

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 21:05:01

Except that they ahouldn't be trad women either because having kids is disempowering

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 21:05:47

Thanks WoT.

I was just thinking that she doesn't claim to be a feminist but a humanist (but wot about the ANIMALZ???) so when she says she doesn't think something is feminist it isn't clear that she isn't speaking as one herself IYSWIM. So it could be a wotaboutthemenz blog saying "feminazis have it all wrong" and same diff.

unless I have missed her saying she thinks she is a feminist (entirely possible).

samandi Fri 15-Mar-13 21:09:20

Except that they ahouldn't be trad women either because having kids is disempowering

True ... and I suspect that many anti-feminists think that anyway.

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 21:10:35

I reread and beginning of her second paragraph starts 'as a feminist'. thank goodness it was near the beginning and I didn't have to reread all of it.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 21:11:15

No I think you're right, she's not claiming to be feminist, she's one of those people who like to tell feminists how they're doing feminism all wrong. I initially assumed she was because she was critiquing a feminist demand... Er...

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 21:12:27

Oops x posted. And of course that bit must have seeped into my mind

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 21:15:11

I wonder what she thinks of female quotas/shortlists - I might request a post on that grin

samandi Fri 15-Mar-13 21:15:46

Ah, is she one of these "I would be a feminist if feminists actually believed in equality, but they want special privileges for women so I'm not" people? That would make sense.

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 21:24:48

oh no apparently she is a feminist - anyone who wants extra privileges like mat leave is a fake-feminist who worships at the altar of the fake mothergoddess deity.....

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 21:25:05

Thanks again WoT.

I think maybe she is a bit confused. Like this > confused

I a tempted to challenge her "humanist" principles on teh grounds of WhatAboutAllOtherLifeOnThePlanetHmmmYeah? and take it from there grin

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 21:26:14

oh and people women should plan and be responsible for their choices, she doesn't actually mention men at all

WoTmania Fri 15-Mar-13 21:28:06

Haha, I reckon you should Trekkie

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 21:34:32

It is tempting ro just take the piss, isn't it? grin

<watches angel wrestling with devil on shoulder>

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 21:34:44

Unfortunately I've just shot my bolt on the comments section so WhatAboutTheCommonEarthwormAndTheAliensHmmDude will have to wait....

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 21:52:24

Apols for language blush

Not sure that particular colloquialism is appropriate on FWR.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 21:58:49

grin

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 23:08:32

Arf.

Unfortunately I seem to have subscribed to that blog - must unsub soon! So I am getting further comments with her responses.

She's now making me larf. She's obviously one of those really unhinged mother-haters.

Does anyone remember a website where lots of childless women posted about how fat and disgusting pregnant women are? They just don't realise how demented they sound to onlookers.

And they have this bizarre justification of feminism as if choosing to be childless is in of itself a feminist choice and all those idiots who chose motherhood are the enemy.

And literally as Wotmania mentioned, she says NOT ONE WORD about men and their choices.

It's almost hilarious.

grin

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 23:19:37

Oooh is she on

I will go look

Am aprehensive

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 23:25:07

Thing is, she's so mad that you can't even take her seriously anymore.

No need for apprehension, it's just off the wall madniss! grin

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 23:32:55

KaPOW

On behalf of all non humans everywhere grin

Trekkie Fri 15-Mar-13 23:33:47

Thing is

she's a humanist. right?

she clearly doesn't think women are human
despite being one...
patriarchy job DONE!!!

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 16-Mar-13 00:15:13

God I can't stop. Must go to bed and remove myself from her insane rantings.

grin

Trekkie Sat 16-Mar-13 00:21:25

Um

Trekkie Sat 16-Mar-13 00:21:47

blush

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 16-Mar-13 00:32:35

haha, can you not drag yourself away either?

I turned off my notification - she's prob american and has at least 5 hours more of her evening to go, so not worth risking!

Trekkie Sat 16-Mar-13 00:36:32

I didn't enable notification

I am clevers like that wink

I am on there

Should probably stop!

PromQueenWithin Sat 16-Mar-13 08:15:29

I went back. Laughed at her responses, not really out loud but there was some audibility. Seriously, what a loon!

StickEmUp Sat 16-Mar-13 08:33:38

Wow i posted then ran away lol.
Lots of the whole blog is complete lunacy.
I am childfree but please don't tar me with the same nutter brush lol.

She just doesn't think people should have kids and anyway mothers are helped she disagrees with whether its feminist or not.

I wondered a few days ago whether to bring her blog here mainly because of the word 'feminist' everywhere and that last post tipped me over the edge.

Sorry if it wound anyone up, i kinda knew it would tbh.

As for childfree, personally it is a word i use instead of childless. I am not less of anything (i could do with a few more pounds in the bank though!).

However, most of the childfree stances on parenting i disagree with.

NoTimeForS Sat 16-Mar-13 08:47:05

Ha at "wot about the animalz?" grin

StickEmUp Sat 16-Mar-13 09:20:50
FastidiaBlueberry Sat 16-Mar-13 10:08:36

LOL
Just gone in this morning and seen a whole load of dysfunctional loons posting.
Think I'll just unsubscribe now. You could spend your life countering such madness.

grin

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 16-Mar-13 10:13:06

Seriously though, I do actually feel a bit sorry for some of them.

They're so eaten up with hatred of mothers, it's not normal.

You can believe on a political level that maternity leave etc., is not good.

But the sheer passion about it and the lack of rational thinking and also the fact that none of them are remotely willing to look at men's choices about parenting - it's all horrible women making life difficult for them because they insist on breeding - shows some kind of internalised misogyny or self-hatred which must be horrible to live with.

Happy people just aren't so vituperative.

I read two of her posts and that told me she has some major issues with the idea of reproduction and has totally failed to realise that for most people it's a totally normal biological drive to do so!
Plus the money that gets leant to countries, in order to make up the shortfall between taxes gathered and the money that needs to be spent, is actually based around the idea of population increase, so too right women should be supported for having babies!

WoTmania Sat 16-Mar-13 10:45:28

It's this concept that having children is a 'lifestyle choice'....very annoying that they don't engage at all with the idea that men get to have it all while women are still having to choose between children and a decent career/FT job.
They seem to think that the world would be a better place if no one had babies. I'm wondering who, in their little childfree utopia, is going to be paying taxes etc in the future.

AbigailAdams Sat 16-Mar-13 12:01:43

Does anyone else feel this view is only a couple of steps away from the ostracising, women-blaming shit that single-mothers and other mothers used to (and can still) go through because they "didn't keep their legs shut" or whatever <vomits slightly>. Reading between the lines she already feels that contraceptive is the woman's responsibility. It must be, if having children is solely the woman's choice. The lack of critical analysis on men's choices and the way the working world is set up is exactly why women are oppressed still today and were traditionally sent away to have babies (Magdalene Laundries anyone), have illegal abortions etc.

I just don't think she is that far away to going back 50 years ago.

TunipTheVegedude Sat 16-Mar-13 12:40:18

yes, I think exactly that Abigail.

AbigailAdams Sat 16-Mar-13 13:22:36

It's just more of the same old woman-blaming shit, wrapped up as feminism (or humanism - whatever takes her fancy today).

WoTmania Sat 16-Mar-13 14:22:14

Totally agree Abigail

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