Mumsnet Talk

There is a website called ARSSE who are apparently goading MN and have been posting up increasingly disturbing images of women being abused.

Some MNers have been ace in caching and doing screen captures before the thread was deleted.

Could anyone who is able tweet and FB this, to bring the attention of the media to a very horrible thread and what looks like a very horrible website?

bumping for help

Oh it's OK it was just a signpost.

For update: the Chat thread reached a 1000 posts and Justine has emailed the Army Rumour Service (ARRSE) forum to ask about its moderation policy.

They publish their moderation policy;

"1. Do not attack people because of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexuality.

2. Do not post anything that is operationally or personally sensitive if it isn't already in the public domain.

3. Do not post pornography (gash shots, scat etc etc) or links to pornographic websites.

4. The Mods reserve the right to remove anything else they don't like as well.

5. Do not harass or 'stalk' other members either on the open site or by PM.

6. Bans and O2 taggings are the likely result of violating the rules, particularly if we don't like you.

7. If you have any complaints about the content of the Arrse Naafi or Arrse generally, contact the forum moderators or the site admins"

Also: "... its become a den of bitchfesting, fuckwittery and general cringeworthyness. Can the cunts amongst you not just start a facebook group, msn chat or somewhere on the net where the remainder of the site don't log out after moments, complain or simply don't log on."

They didn't adhere to their own policy, in that case.

And I think that posting images and descriptions of the rape and torture and abuse of women and girls went a fair bit beyond 'fuckwittery and cringeworthyness'; and ARRSE possibly seem only worried about the advertising revenue falling off.

Worrying statistics linked to this

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/returning-soldiers-more-likely-to-commit-violent-crimes-at-home-if-they-witnessed-traumatic-events-in-combat-8534974.html

Front line troops have a higher chance of being found guilty of a violent assault.
However - these statistics did not include DV

"The study found that of 2,700 men serving in the armed forces under the age of 30, 20.6% had been convicted of a violent offence, compared with 6.7% in the general population. Men who had seen combat in Iraq and Afghanistan were 53% more likely to commit a violent offence than those in non-frontline roles. And personnel who had multiple experiences of combat had a 70% to 80% greater risk of being convicted of acts of violence.

Violent offences covered a broad range of acts, from verbal harassment to homicide. They did not include incidents of domestic violence."

That report also pointed out that the overall offending rate was lower than for a comparable age/sex population.

But the offences committed were much more likely to be violent. Alcohol was a major factor (a previous study by Kings on the MH angle bears that out too).

Anyone read the full report? It would be worth knowing how much of the headline figure was made up of drunken brawling and how much was more deliberately targeted.

How bizarre . Why didn't they include dv? Is that not "real" violence?

I'm sure I've read that women married to members of armed forces are more likely to be subjected to dv. Can't remember where though

Noone from Mumsnet HQ replied to me regarding the lovely people who are sending loveboxes to ssafa's Stepping Stone Home refuges. That's quite sad I think.

Interesting they excluded/separated out DV from that study.

The armed forces have known for a long time that they have a problem with DV.

Back in 2009 it was reported that more armed services personnel (serving and former) were in prison than serving in Afghanistan. About a third of those men in prison or on probation were convicted of DV.

ARRSE would find a sympathetic reception about this on MN if it asked for help with the problem, and had stopped allowing its members to post gloating images of rape and violence against women using its own supposed moderation policy. And as for all those other posters that not only stood by without challenge but found it amusing... scary.

Here's the link to one of those 2009 media reports

They really did break all their own rules didnt they....and then some.

I'm surprised it was excluded altogether - I can see why they might need a disclaimer that figures on this might be incomplete if they were counting only convictions.

Anyone got any good links about DV and military families?

Awks I've nearly sorted my box out for Ssafa for the refuge houses. Will be on its way soon.

Please contact MNHQ again and ask for a reply. It was a bit fraught, that thread.

This Bristol University study is a few years old but is interesting. It rounds off by saying that we need to know more about how the perpetrators perceive 'gendered roles' - they weren't commissioned to study that!

From the evidence of the ARRSE website, that forum would would be a good place to start looking.

The MoD knows there is a massive problem.

Thanks Line Runner.

Thanks, LineRunner: though that survey was based on a tiny and self-selecting response size (interestingly ArRSe was one of the organisations through which responses were solicited).

The drawback, I suppose, with focussing on ArRSe is that they don't check whether posters there have any connection with the Army at all.

AWKS I would be interested in that. Can you PM me please I'm on my phone so can't PM at the min.

I think ARRSE should take greater care with its moderation as it's become a terrible 'advert' for soldiers and ex-soldiers who clearly need genuine support from everyone. It also has a specifically nasty piece about MN, which must be approved by the moderators.

Olivia - Justine commented on the original thread and when I pm'd her it directed me to an email address. I used that email address the following morning but as yet haven't had a response. I can resend if you wish.

I've still got to do my box. Have bought a couple of things but still thinking what else to get.

Thanks FB. Not glamorous but sanitary towels (nice ones - we all know theres a difference!), bottle multi vitamins, carmex, make up wipes or toothbrushes are always good. And a fiver nightie ffrom Primark if you are flush x

I have done Olivia. ta

Cheers, good suggestions.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1709192-Writing-to-soldiers

Sorry to but in but sometimes DV in soldiers and violence/drinking problems are triggered by PTSD after returning home from Afgan. Decompression in Cyprus sometimes is not enough, and they can sometimes become quite ill.

I'll be honest, for a few months after my husband returned from serving he was a different man, we got help through a councellor. Luckily he was never violent but he was a bit on edge. Even to this day, if he has a nightmare ill end up being hit or pulled in his sleep, war really does leave a lasting effect in some men.

That's why the earlier King's study on MH was important; thought found alcohol abuse far more prevalent than PTSD. The support for PTSD has increased hugely in the last decade or so (both for still serving and ex-service); alcohol issues, no real change.

mabongwen I truly hope and your DH are ok. I agree that the connection between front-line active service, trauma and violence comes across in all the studies.

I think counselling sounds essential and incredibly helpful.

I think hanging around on a forum that gloats over images and descriptions of violence against women is the oppopsite of that.

I do wonder what it was like after WW1 and WW2. So many men involved and they saw so much.

Even in the USA after the Vietnam war.

lunerunner yes we are much better and I feel we owe it all to the councelling. But I also agree those men on that site are vile! Like you sais there is a stark difference between suffered and strange men who enjoy laughing about DV

I signed up to arrse to see what they were posting. It's horrible.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/17/british-armed-forces-civilian-violence

Bump

i put a comment on the thread under the Guardian article suggesting that they check out the ARRSE website and i was very fair about it. I made sure to say that not all of them posting vile stuff there may be soldiers and my comment was STILL removed.
I think that tells us all we need to know.
i put the comment there because Barbara mentions DV in her article so i thought it would make sense to mention it Silly naive me.
Even in the case of Rebecca Meredith the Mail mentioned that it was an internet forum that were making vile remarks about her but shied away from mentioning which one.
We are being silenced. We have learnt nothing from history as a society.

Can someone please explain to me very clearly what's going on? Because I hope that what I think is happening is not the case.

Hi Maggie. The ARRSE website have been trolling MN at least since last summer.
Last weekend they surpassed themselves.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1704365-MuntersNet

They have been excercising their vile mysogyny for a while now. Their members join MN pretending to be something they are not and troll the site.

But this last weekend they have really surpassed themselves. Posting horrific images of domestic violence and when we dared to question it and share it with journalists twitter accounts and publications THEY tried to use the law where you cant share distressing images to silence US.

So after doing that they then tried to use and twist the law to suit their own ends. I also saw several rape jokes, one which said that a mums netter "wouldnt cry rape in the morning"

Now another MNer has just pmed me to say she has contacted several newspapers and hasnt heard a thing back. I contacted the Guardian last year about the sick disabilist comments on their site.

And heard nothing back then either. I think a lot of news outlets wouldnt want to touch this because it interferes with the "hero" rhetoric.

Now i am NOT anti Armed Forces. There are a lot of great people serving and going beyond the call of duty.

And some of those people using ARSE might not necessarily be in the Armed Forces. However it is an Army forum and this does reflect badly on them.

Like i said no one seems to want to touch them because of the "hero" rhetoric and they are ALL seen as good guys.

LESS than SIX MONTHS after the truth about Jimmy Savile was exposed (he was seen as a hero of sorts who did a lot for charity) he was reported many times (the first time in the early 1960s) and those kept getting ignored too.

I do NOT see why they should get away with doing what they are doing just because they happen to wear a uniform.

When mysogynists and rape apologists like these post these comments (including a comment about putting petrol on a womans hair and setting her on fire) and then try to twist the law to silence the people they are deliberately trying to cause distress to, its not too hard to see why a woman wouldnt report an assault.

There seems to be a very sinister undercurrent in society today that want to terrorise women and then when they stand up and say no there are manipulative attempts to silence them like the one ive described here.

No wonder many women wouldnt report an assault.

If ARSE believe they are doing nothing wrong then why are they hiding their more vitriolic mysogynistic threads to everyone except members.

It is a sad reflection on our society today. And there could be men like these serving in war torn countries coming into contact with vulnerable women.

And like Savile the issue is being ignored and sidelined and brushed under the carpet.

When ARRSE realised that a fellow MNer had taken some screen grabs they closed the threads to everyone but members so they could peddle their vile filth in private.

As ive said i really dont see why they should be able to hide behind a uniform. Whether the users of this site are soldiers or not the ARRSE site reflects badly on them

The above post ive copied and pasted from my e mail account.

That's a great post - just a shame that the media don't seem to be interested. The police seem keen to get involved when other people post things that are offensive on FB or Twitter.

EXACTLY Kim Do you remember those two young lads two years ago who got five years for just THREATENING to riot on Facebook but not actually doing it.
Here we have threats about rape and pouring petrol over a womans hair and setting her on fire and NO ONE WANTS TO PUT THIS IN PRINT OR DO ANYTHING.

Thanks Kim i will be leaving that e mail in my account for a long while and if anyone runs a related article i will send it to them.
Grazia ran an article last week "So When did Mysogyny Become Mainstream" so i sent it to them.
But cynical me says it either wont be printed or it will be printed with the name of the website removed.

Has anyone actually made a police report?

Another comparison.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/17/inquest-death-prisoner-jailed-gingerbread

That seems totally unrelated to anything that is happening here. The police will only investigate if a suspected offence is reported. Does anyone know if that has happened?

Yes, it's an offence under hate speech legislation, my personal opinion is that they are best left to rot in their own foulness.

There are a few MPs' letters floating around. My guess is the army will openly disown Ars and its advertising income may be vulnerable.

Okey dokey I will. I did ask a couple of q's though on my email so are you going to answer them on here as I'd rather you just email me back rather than have stuff in the public domain. Ta