DV figures are out today

(49 Posts)
Sausageeggbacon Thu 07-Feb-13 16:42:47

BBBC News here 2 million victims too many

Absolutely appalling, but sadly it doesn't surprise me sad

SisterRay Thu 07-Feb-13 22:18:37

It does seem to be mainly a class issue, which isn't all that surprising really. There are a lot of angry men and women out there, that's for sure.

It makes sense that poorer women are more likely to have to stay in bad relationships..however I can't help but wonder if women with money and of a certain status would be less likely to report their husbands for DV, in order to keep up appearances..and also because a well off, "pillar of society" type might be able to scare his wife in to thinking she won't be believed.

LineRunner Thu 07-Feb-13 23:44:53

The report broke the data down by gender, until it got to the 'repeat' category, when it stopped breaking the data down by gender.

Why?

MechanicalTheatre Thu 07-Feb-13 23:45:58

SisterRay why is it "not surprising"? Do you think the working classes just beat the shit out of each other all day long?

I agree with Trucker that a lot of richer women might feel they have to stay: they have a nice life (except the DV) and feel they couldn't support children on their own/wouldn't be believed/would have the children taken off them because the husband has more money.

Or it could be that they have their own money, so can just leave, without involving the police at all.

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 08:14:48

No I don't think that, but I have lived in a poor area with a very high number of jobless people and then a reasonably well off area where almost everyone works, I can tell you that their values were very different.

CoalDustWoman Fri 08-Feb-13 08:16:54

Linerunner, that's a puzzle, isn't it? I wonder why...

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 08-Feb-13 10:13:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kim147 Fri 08-Feb-13 10:26:31

There was a health report out last year about my city.
Reported DV is much higher in the area of town that could be described as deprived - it comes lowest in markers such as alcohol abuse, unemployment, drug use, low educational outcomes and general crime.
And not just DV but also emotional and physical abuse and neglect of children seemed to be linked to these deprived areas.

Reported DV incidents shot up during big football tournaments - and there was a marked increase in the area I live inn.

Isn't DV generally linked to many of these issues which are related to deprivation? Although DV can obviously occur in all types of households for many of the reasons outlined above?

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 10:37:42

I'm sorry you think that Stewie, but that was my personal experience. I was quite often personally intimidated, and I saw a lot of violence from both men and women. I just did, why would I lie about it, or dress it up as something else?

The study also backs up what I say. I certainly didn't say it was the case for ALL who are poorer, but it was significantly higher than when I lived in a well off area.

<shrugs>

Sausageeggbacon Fri 08-Feb-13 10:49:23

Resentment, low income, self loathing, lack of ambition or drive. These are all things that we don't want to see in ourselves or our partners. It make sense that the biggest issues with DV are in those areas where deprivation is commonplace. My XH was controlling over money and that was the biggest issue within the relationship, I can certainly see how it would drive partners at each other throats.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 08-Feb-13 16:22:45

I just love the way they try to de-genderise it by pretending that men are just as affected.

And yes, it is because they've managed to only report on cases where there was 1 act of violence.

Let's see the figures for 2+ acts of violence shall we?

Then we'll see the gender split.

Wonder why the BBC isn't interested in reporting that?

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 17:09:00

SisterRay you never know what goes on behind closed doors though, do you? I've lived amongst the middle classes, they're very good at hiding things.

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 17:11:17

I think violence is deplorable no matter who it's done to and how many times. Why do people always say 'yes, well such and such has it worse'. What does that achieve?

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 17:12:43

I don't doubt it Mechanical. I'm just commenting on the report and it's findings though, we can all speculate can't we?

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 17:18:49

Yes, of course we can all speculate.

Some of us just get a bit pissed off with the constant presence of this middle class hegemony, almost always back up with "well, I lived in a working class area once and let me tell you, those people are AWFUL".

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 17:28:07

I did live in an area with predominantly jobless people (I was one of them) for about a decade, in the Midlands. Those were my experiences. I'm sorry if you feel that's a cliche. I didn't say that those people were AWFUL, I said that some were violent towards each other, which they were.

Did you live in a similar area with different experiences then?

I wouldn't consider myself middle class btw.

kim147 Fri 08-Feb-13 17:36:23

Between 1 in 10 and 1 in 5 calls to police are DV related. I hope the Police and Crime commisioners begin to take this seriously and the underlying causes are addressed.

I hate to think how this recession and all the crap it's brought people has affected DV figures.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 17:54:45

I think it is very easy to say "I lived in this area and thus working/middle/upper class people are like this" but that it has absolutely no grounding in what actually goes on.

kim147 Fri 08-Feb-13 18:01:05

mechanical Do you think DV is more prevalent amongst people who suffer the most difficulties in life in terms of socio-economic indicators?

I work closely with children from some very deprived backgrounds (inner city Leeds) and the things that go on in their lives and the things they see on a daily basis and become their normality shock me. But to them, it's their normality.

I also live in the most deprived area of York - it's nothing compared to some cities but it is very different to middle class areas of the city.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 18:08:45

kim147, I truly don't know.

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 18:34:34

How do you know what actually goes on though Mechanical? You said to me, who has had experience of living in a deprived area, that doing so has absolutely no grounding in what actually goes on, how can you make that assumption unless you know the truth about what goes on.

So how do you know this, when in response to kim's question you say that you truly don't know whether DV is more prevalent amongst people who suffer the most difficulties in life in terms of socio-economic indicators.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 19:03:28

I don't get your question.

What I'm saying is no-one knows what the true figures are, they only know what is reported to the police.

SisterRay Fri 08-Feb-13 19:35:39

Yes. So on the basis of what is reported to the police, the majority of victims are from deprived areas, which backs up my experience.

I can tell you that their values were very different

hmm

My knowledge of people in all "classes" is that some are good and some are bad. The well off ones are just able to be bad on a grander scale. They steal entire pension funds and send entire countries in to economic turmoil.
Which frankly puts buying a 60 inch tv while on disability benefit and still doing plastering in to perspective.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 19:42:22

SisterRay, but you have no idea how many cases AREN'T reported to the police!

LineRunner Fri 08-Feb-13 21:09:21

I still think there is a reporting dissonance here.

When you go further into the Repeat Violence figures, there is a clear gender split which shows women as the vast majority of repeat victims. That is a feminist issue.

Lessthanaballpark Fri 08-Feb-13 22:42:16

Sister I've often wondered about that. I'd never witnessed any DV till I ended up in a working class environment, where I have witnessed some horrible

Lessthanaballpark Fri 08-Feb-13 22:46:29

Incidents. But I think that was because I live in a block of flats where the walls are paper thin and I can hear everything, whereas when I was in my nice posh detached house, it could have been going on but I never knew about it. That could well be a factor in it. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

Pan Fri 08-Feb-13 23:03:17

Going against the grain of 'it's generally a WC problem' theme, the groups for male DV perpetrators are populated by a really wide range of socio-economic groups of men. And a fair proportion of 'men of colour' and by men who qualify as 'disabled from working' categories.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:14:02

I think there is a massive class context for DV, and pretending that there isn't doesn't help anybody. Which is not to say that it only or mainly happens to one particular class because that's clearly utter rubbish - but there are different factors which affect each class and this also affects DV and how it manifests, attitudes towards it, etc. I think it's foolish to ignore this in much the same way that it's foolish to ignore the fact that we live in a patriarchial society and so while female on male DV exists and is perhaps not much rarer than male on female there's a totally different dynamic there.

We see every day on mumsnet a huge range of women posting in DV situations sad I have literally seen everything from someone who has had such a chaotic home life from the minute they were born to women who are successful, rich, seemingly independent but still trapped under their partner's control. Class doesn't dictate how it happens to you, but expectations and attitudes DO vary with class/peer experience/expectations/what was normalised to you in childhood and this needs to be taken into account in order to offer effective support to victims and any attempts to counter DV.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 23:18:40

I also think ignoring contexts is dangerous, Bertie. But I also think it's dangerous (in more ways than one) to assume that domestic violence is more a working class problem than a middle class one.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:23:45

In the area that I live violence is normal to many, many people. It's just a way of dealing with things. I can't even count the amount of times I've overheard a conversation where someone is quite seriously offering to deck someone or batter them or threatening it. These aren't teenagers - they're adults in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. I heard a guy on the phone the other day, quite distressed, claiming he was going to beat someone up because this person was hitting his ex-girlfriend. I thought for ages that it was good if someone managed their anger by hitting a wall or door or smashing inanimate objects, because that was way better than hitting a person. Now I would not stand for someone hitting/kicking inanimate objects because I recognise that this is a sign of having lost control rather than gained it!

I don't think that DV is more common in my area than in the "nice" part of town. But I think many people are quick to dismiss the actual violence part as "she was winding him up, she knows what he's like". But then I think that most people in all areas of society are quick to dismiss the idea of emotional abuse, so I don't know if it really makes a difference. I just think it's more visible in certain areas.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:24:49

I don't think it is more of a working class problem, in any way. I agree with you, it is dangerous to make that assumption.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 23:25:31

Absolutely it's more visible in working class areas. It doesn't mean it's more prevalent.

Pan Fri 08-Feb-13 23:26:24

Yes, peer expectation and hopes do vary amongst the 'classes', but how it's played out is depressingly similar.

Eg, I am recently involved in a case where the woman is putting up with all kinds of abuse, ostensibly because her partner is a really successful drug dealer and makes A LOT of money. They have a really good standard of life, from the outside.The children witness the abuse. She is 'trading'.
Not so different from the abuse cases in RL and on here where the woman spends years putting up with EA and DV for reasons of otherwise status and privilege, until something clicks and she has had enough.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:28:53

More visible to outsiders, maybe... I can't explain what I'm trying to say really.

I think that DV happens in the context of class. And excuse me for using genders in this way, but just to provide an easily followed example, a man who uses physical violence to sort out his problems and who finds that this is accepted by his peers is more likely to be physically violent in order to control his wife. A man who uses his financial or business influence or manipulates to solve his problems is more likely to use financial or emotional methods to control his wife.

They are both controlling - and a man who uses violence to sort out his problems - because that is the accepted way in his peer group - but does not attempt to control his partner is not a DV perpetrator even if he is a violent man.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:29:42

In fact that's what I was trying to say in the first place - took me a while to get there grin

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 23:30:16

Hrm, is there any evidence to back that up though, BertieBotts? I see what you're saying, I just wonder if it's extrapolation. I think people are more complicated than that.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:32:05

Yes it's a simplification. But a controlling person is a controlling person. It's the method they use to gain/exert/keep that control which changes and relates to their life experience which may or may not include social class.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:33:24

So in fact I think I've come full circle here - it's not about class at all... it's the outward signs which change with class, but the root cause is the same.

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 23:34:00

I do see what you're saying. But you get an awful lot of men who would never punch anyone except their wife, and an awful lot of men who go out scrapping every week but would never hit a woman.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:41:49

Of course, you're right. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well!

MechanicalTheatre Fri 08-Feb-13 23:43:04

No I do understand what you're saying...I think?

kim147 Fri 08-Feb-13 23:45:39

I think as well that reported domestic abuse to the police probably still tends to be the more physical kind - and not the emotional controlling kind that you read about on here so much.

BertieBotts Fri 08-Feb-13 23:57:06

YY kim.

I think I'm basically trying to say that the underlying mindset of every abuser is the same - it's control. So whether that manifests as physically hurting someone in order to control them, restricting their freedom by tying them down with a family and loads of housework etc without supporting them, not allowing them access to money... it's all the same, it just looks different. Physical abuse is just a symptom or sign of the underlying control, yet it's often placed in a different category to other types of abuse, or seen as some kind of continuum where a snide comment is the beginning and a beating is the end, and all abuse leads this way eventually. I think this is false, I think there are abusers who will never ever lay a finger on their victim but their abuse is still there, it just manifests in other ways.

I also think that it's probably true that if violence is acceptable to you, you're more likely to use it as a form of control, whereas somebody else might use a different form of control, or whatever. And of course you're right as well that someone might feel something is acceptable (or kid themselves that it was a one off and doesn't count or something) when in private but is very aware that it's not acceptable in public and so will take great pains to hide this. I think it's extremely rare that an abuser knows their abuse is 100% wrong and doesn't care and does it anyway. They all justify it to themselves, and part of that is feeling that their "control technique" is acceptable, even if that's only "when necessary".

My DHs ex-p has reported my DH for non-existent crimes (when i say non-existent, he wasn't even there and or/she made it up) at least five times...and I've reported MY ex-P for writing harassing letters to me twice, personally I would not class that as DV, just him being a twat, but however it was documented as such. So that's at least seven claims you can knock off the list.

Bobits Mon 11-Feb-13 22:56:36

I think to suggest that dv affects only the working class is false. I personally think this is not dissimilar to 'victim blaming'. To suggest working class are more likely to be affected - it distances 'the rest of us' and makes us feel safe. And sadly myths like this are what keeps any victim from identifying abuse for what it is and why victims stay and experience repeated incidents IMHO. And domestic violence isn't seen 'in the street' in 'posh areas' because that is what it is.. violence within the home, in a domestic situation. If others see it, the perpetrator loses what he wants most - control over the situation.

Womans Aid:

Who are the victims?
The vast majority of the victims of domestic violence are women and children, and women are also considerably more likely to experience repeated and severe forms of violence, and sexual abuse. Women may experience domestic violence regardless of ethnicity, religion, class, age, sexuality, disability or lifestyle. Domestic violence can also occur in a range of relationships including heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender relationships, and also within extended families.

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