ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.

Is there a thread on the SWP rape investigation?

(31 Posts)
SaraBellumHertz Sun 03-Feb-13 09:40:38

Just that.

I have just read it elsewhere (sadly a DM) link and was horrified. The poor woman.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 03-Feb-13 10:07:11

No I don't think there has been.

Interesting article in the Observer this morning.


FrothyDragon Sun 03-Feb-13 11:45:25

I haven't seen one yet. Absolutely disgusted with the SWP wrt this, as a former supporter. Absolutely disgusted.

MiniTheMinx Sun 03-Feb-13 11:53:26

I have just read the Observer piece

"That's the way it is on the far left. The hierarchical party always has the potential to become a rapist's playground"

No more so than any other organisation. Consider for a minute what right wing politics has to offer women?????

"The SWP wants to abolish democracy and establish a dictatorship"

Of the proletariat

What sort of democracy do you think we currently live in?

The women was free to go to the police and this is exactly what she should have done.

FrothyDragon Sun 03-Feb-13 11:57:14

She was also free not to go to the police, Mini. Just because she felt able to disclose the rape to the SWP doesn't mean she would have felt able to take the case through the legal system.

The SWP are not judge and jury, but they've acted like they believe they are.

MiniTheMinx Sun 03-Feb-13 12:07:08

SWP response here www.swp.org.uk/14/01/2013/response-attacks-swp

I was a bit shocked listening to Selma James here www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQM6RaHX2xg the very women who did so much to change to law on rape within marriage, putting political solidarity before women.

Had she have taken her complaint to the police it would have been investigated. It would also have done less damage to the party. I agree the way it has been dealt with is shocking.

chibi Sun 03-Feb-13 13:09:03

this is awful, and she must feel so betrayed, on top of everything else

seems a bit off to suggest that this is all her fault for not going to the police - how was she to anticipate that people she thought were her comrades would fuck her over for some important guy, using a 'raise your hand if you think he's guilty' style tribunal hmm

as for whatever damage this might do the party, i hope it wrecks them, utterly - if people are that invested in socialism, they can have another go, and this time not try to organise themselves along entitled misogynist lines

and as far as 'wahhhh but the right wing does it tooooo' goes, they can also take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, my disdain for misogynists is bipartisan grin

seriously though, anyone who thinks 'but x do it too/worse' is exculpatory is a <insert disparaging adjective of choice here>

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 03-Feb-13 13:25:36

Any damage that's been done to the party has been entirely self-inflicted.

85-90% of rape victims don't go to the police Mini, why should she have been one of the 10-15% who did?

FrothyDragon Sun 03-Feb-13 13:43:48

Quite, Chibi.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Sun 03-Feb-13 14:01:26

I'm not at all surprised about this. My ex-husband is very involved with the SWP, the local branch regularly held meetings in my sitting room, and I can honestly say they were amongst the most misogynistic people I ever had the misfortune to meet.

Also, considering they are called the Socialist Workers Party, they have a very dismissive and patronising attitude towards working class people, who are, apparently to thick to know what's good for them.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 03-Feb-13 20:09:10

I came across this today:

Quite amusing resignation film from a SWP member - I mean former member


MiniTheMinx Sun 03-Feb-13 21:20:13

I have just watched the video, thank you

It seems that the people that exonerated "Delta" were fellow comrades and it can only be concluded that their interest was probably in containing the issue.

"considering they are called the Socialist Workers Party, they have a very dismissive and patronising attitude towards working class people, who are, apparently to thick to know what's good for them"

I don't think that is particularly fair, the working classes are the least conscious of their class situation. It isn't that the working classes are too thick, it's more that without being conscious they will not act in their class interest.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 03-Feb-13 21:33:14

In other words mini, they acted the way patriarchs usually do when confronted with one of their mates raping a woman - they take his side because his life is more important than her's.

I agree it's not a left/ right issue: right wing men would behave exactly the same. It's a sexism issue.

TeiTetua Sun 03-Feb-13 22:16:34

Recall that the women's movement in America branched out of the anti-war and civil rights organizations. It happened when women lost patience with men who claimed to be fighting for justice, but who expected women in their groups to be subservient to them.

Not that there'd be any reason to expect right-wing types to behave better. But then, they aren't making any claims to be pushing social progress.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Mon 04-Feb-13 00:02:41

"I don't think that is particularly fair, the working classes are the least conscious of their class situation. It isn't that the working classes are too thick, it's more that without being conscious they will not act in their class interest."

I don't think that is particularly fair. The working classes are very conscious of their class situation. It isn't that they aren't conscious, it's more that we've had nearly 35 years of governance that has deliberately made it difficult/impossible for them to act in their class interests.

That started with Thatcher; was continued by New Labour, who despite being almost totally middle class believed they knew what was best for the working class; and is know enshrined in policy of the current government who have successfully turned the working class into scapegoats who are responsible for everything from the budget deficit to rising crime to mass unemployment. To suggest that this is due to a lack of cognisance on the part of the working classes is extremely insulting.

LesBOFerables Mon 04-Feb-13 00:19:30

The SWP's members have always been pretty sound on women's liberation and standing up to sexism, and this will just about finish them off, as most of the members will be disgusted. There is a siege mentality though, and you are seen as betraying the cause if you contradict the Central Committee. They have fucked up, badly. There has always been a culture of charismatic male leading members who have felt free to 'reject bourgeois morality' and pursue often vulnerable younger women in thrall to them, and they have been too slow to recognise the sexism inherent in this. Which is why, I imagine, the internal investigation wanted to conclude the rape allegations were just a 'relationship gone wrong'.

The fact is that they didn't have the skills or the authority to investigate a serious crime, and they shouldn't have tried.

Hullygully Tue 05-Feb-13 11:35:00

This is what happens when Leftie women forget that their place is on their backs or behind the tea urn.

So sad.

slug Tue 05-Feb-13 11:57:21

In any demo the SWP signs are usually everywhere. They have a well organised base of ground troops (usually students) who are prepared to get out and make their presence felt. So, according to my friend who is in the know, the reason the SWP, who are usually a huge presence at demos of any kind, were notably absent from the Lewisham Hospital march two weeks ago is their activists are all in revolt against the party leadership.

Hullygully Tue 05-Feb-13 12:08:54

I just can't get over the fact that she didn't go to the police or courts because they are bourgeois oppressors etc and the more equal than other comrades at the top found chappie innocent.

Boys will be boys

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Tue 05-Feb-13 23:14:15

"This is what happens when Leftie women forget that their place is on their backs or behind the tea urn."


The problem is, a significant number of men on the left pay lip service to feminism, but in reality see it as a minority, single issue distraction.

Leftwing men are very, very often misogynists. It's their massive self-righteousness and entitlement that's the issue - 'Hey, I'm Fighting For Justice, so I can stick my dick anywhere I like, because I'm Important And Special'. Just look at Julian Assange and his fucking fan club.

Hullygully Wed 06-Feb-13 11:40:06

It's always about power. Men wanting power. Men wanting power over other men in whateve the club might be: SWP, Tories, Labour. Anyone wanting to be on the top table in one of those clubs is power mad and isn't going to give a shit about women no matter what fine words they may say when necessary.

FastidiaBlueberry Wed 06-Feb-13 18:06:42

Julian Assange isn't actually left wing. If you look at his views on economics etc., he's more of a libertarian than a lefty.

Which makes it all the more ironic that all the lefty boys are lining up to defend his right to rape. They value women who agree with them, less than men who don't.

TheInnerSea Wed 06-Feb-13 18:28:01

I have always considered SWP to be misogynists, ever since I walked past a group selling their paper and one called out "have you got any SW in you darlin'" and another chipped in "do you want some?" I was 13.

I know a couple of idiots might not be representative, but there were 5 of them there, they all found it most amusing and none tried to rein the others in.

FastidiaBlueberry Wed 06-Feb-13 19:16:46

Actually, that is really shit.

When they're selling the SW, they are representing their party.

Just as I'm representing my employer if I wear their livery or am engaged in a task on their behalf.

They should be aware of their party's stance on sexism. Oh wait, they were...

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