ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Anti feminist meme.(65 Posts)
Saw this and was initially quite annoyed but it got me thinking about it. What is actually expected nowdays for treatment of women? Would we still consider it worse to hit a woman than to hit a man? Are men still expected to hold doors open to women? And if that sort of thing is expected, isn't it hypocrytical to say we want equal rights while expecting special treatment? I don't know, I'm all confused now. Thoughts?
Are men still expected to hold doors open to women?(...)And if that sort of thing is expected, isn't it hypocrytical to say we want equal rights while expecting special treatment?
Dude, yawn. Why are people so obsessed with the door thing? That's a polite thing you do for all sorts of people in order to be polite, esp if they're carrying something.
No, men aren't expected to hold a door for women. It is nice to hold a door for people.
'Special treatment' that social conventions give to women are all very superficial. Doors. Walking on the outside of a pavement. Offering a coat. You know what, I'll trade that with men for true equality. it is mainly older men who do those things IME too.
These are smokescreens designed to sidetrack people from real feminist issues.
It's like the news reporters idea of balance being showing both sides of the argument. Not the relative weights of impact of the two arguments.
Benevolent sexism is still sexism. End it all, shoot for equality.
P.S. has anyone actually seen the fabled "holding doors open is sexist" reaction in real life? Is it an American thing maybe?
I expect everyone to hold a door open for me, as I also hold doors for others. I don't need a man to step back and let me pass through first though, especially because, as I suspect, they're only doing it to check out my (actually really nice) arse.
I don't expect anyone to hit anyone. I don't expect anyone to give me a seat on the train because, hello, I have two legs that work fine, and full use of my spinal chord.
I'd like a seat please <puts up hand> But because I have two pre-schoolers with me at all times and a bad back, not because I am female.
Not me ecclesvet
You see I just think that these types of statements in the OP are just a projection of the sense of entitlement that the men who make them feel. They expect women to have that same sense of entitlement. But society conditions women not to feel entitled but grateful.
I've seen crazy men online write angrily about how feminists are against them holding open doors for women, with the conclusion that if women don't want that special treatment they will drop ALL good-will and niceness towards women and be anti-feminists and beat women because of equality. WTF?
The special lady treatment from the past (I'm thinking middle ages and 19th century etc here) was a superficial show of courtsey men in patriarchy would make a point of doing for us delicate, not fully human, lesser-status-than men- ladies. So we didn't hate them for not giving us rights or something? And of course such niceness wasn't given to non-ladies such as poor women, prostitutes etc.
Anyhow the whole thing is very strange. I've never gotten angry at a man doing a polite gesture for me IRL, that's what you do to everyone if you're being nice nowadays. However, a man I knew once got pissed off because I held the door open for him. I got there first. WTAF
Those are utterly ridiculous and not things I've ever heard a feminist say. It's the daily mail version on feminism surely, dreamt up by non-feminists.
I open doors for people, if someone opens a door or holds a door for me I say thank you.
I don't expect to be hit by anyone. Not because I'm female but because hitting another person is assault. Likewise, I don't make a point of hitting other people either.
What is this 'special treatment'? I can't remember ever expecting special treatment unless expecting my opinions to count as much as those of the male next to me counts as special treatment. Or maybe having my complaints about my 'touchy-feely' (his words) manager taken seriously at work. Or expecting to be paid the same as the man doing the same job as me?
I know what the door thing is.
It's when some smart-arse who you've been talking to about feminism makes a massive twittish performance of 'ooh, better not hold the door open, hur hur'.
I bet you. Honestly. That's the only situation where I might make an irritated comment.
I was brought up to hold the door open for anyone who looked as if they might appreciate it. It is a godsend if someone does it when you are laden down with heavy bags or something, and I'm sure it's just as nice if you're a bloke as if you're a woman.
When misogynists talk about women getting "special treatment" what they mean is things like maternity rights and the right to go to ante-natal appointments in work time when you're pregnant.
In other words, they believe that the world which was set up by men for men, is the norm: when men set up the workplace, from which they excluded women, there was no such thing as maternity rights because men didn't need them, because men don't get pregnant. So any adaptation to the workplace, like maternity rights, or indeed to the rest of the world to enable women and children to function in it, is considered "special treatment". Because wanting the world to be designed for all of humanity to be able to function in it, not just white, able-bodied, middle-class men, is wanting special treatment doncha know.
They don't notice that just being male gets you special treatment in the patriarchy - because that's the norm.
I don't expect men to do anything special. Why would I? I hold doors and help people with buggies, and I notice men do it too. OTOH, in the past I have far too often been expected to be the coffee and tea maker because I'm a woman.
Violence is a different problem. I consider it generally worse for a man to hit a woman than a man, but there are complex reasons for this, many of which are stem from patriarchy. There are straightforward physical reasons too. Most women are significantly weaker than most men when it comes to a physical fight. If male violence to women becomes acceptable (as it is in some societies) then women are at huge disadvantage. It's down to physical difference rather than sex. Men hitting women is cowardly and despicable, just as men hitting very much weaker men is cowardly and despicable.
But men experience physical aggression differently in our society. For example, although most men don't hit other men, there are male social groups in which a low level of violence between men is accepted, even expected, the sort of group in which overt physical masculinity is important. Having a bit of barny with someone (i.e. a punch up which doesn't result in serious injury) or punching a mate quite hard in the arm is OK is these circles. But I can't think of any circle in which a man who punched a male friend in the arm as a form of greeting would punch a female friend in the same way.
The sort of man who engages in this sort of macho behaviour with male friends is not necessarily the sort of man who will hit his DP. I guess you get men who never who hit anyone, men who hit other men, men who hit women, and men who'll hit anyone.
I was slapped in the face by a woman because I lit her cigarette first.
I'd just crashed for about 4 others, and I lit her, and she smacked me and told me I was sexist.
I said it was as well I was, (I wasn't really) as I wouldn't let a bloke get away with that. She then smacked me again and said, "Go on then."
I told her she was an idiot, I outreached here, outweighed her and it would hurt. She welted me again, and I decided I'd pop her one high up on the cheek, and drew my arm back. Mate grabbed me, and I realised what I'd been about to do. That was the first and only time I ever thought about it. That was nigh 40 years since.
I have hit men a number of times, including more than one who was knocking about a woman, and yes, I'd think far less of a man for striking a woman than I would for smacking another bloke.
Women don't need special treatment. They need, like everyone else to be treated with courtesy.
I no longer stand automatically for women on public transport, but will for people who are old or pregnant or look like they need a seat. I always hold doors for people (men or women).
Through habit I'll tend to walk outside of woman in case we get splashed.
I alsoo tend to cross the road if I'm bimbling up behind a woman [I'm a moderately menacing looking fat old git]
I think most of these prats are just scared of women, tbh.
I find it amusing that OMC's posts frequently contain something derogatory against women. Obviously then tempered by showing what a good guy he really is.
I find it amusing that OMC's posts frequently contain something derogatory against women.
I'll be similarly amused if you can find ANYthing in that post derogatory against womEn.
I note you're referring to my previous posts, all of which I'd wager a pound to a pinch of pigshit you haven't read, and as in passing isn't it regarded as the height of bad manners to do that?
I expect to be treated as I treat others. If a person is walking behind me as I go through a door, I will hold it open so they can pass through. I will give elderly, disabled or pregnant people my seat on a train. I don't hit people and I don't expect to be hit. If someone hits me, I don't hit them back, I call the police and have them charged with assault. I don't expect to be sexually assaulted because someone thinks I look attractive in what I have chosen to wear. I don't sexually assault people.
I don't expect to be treated differently because I have breasts. I don't expected to be unemployable because I am a woman who has given birth. I don't expect to be hit, I don't expect anyone to be hit. Hitting is how chimps communicate, and I do not associate myself with chimps.
Did anyone hear something? A persistent whining noise?
Sounds good to me.
Not necessarily practical when I pulled a bloke at a party off his girlfriend who he was leathering. He smacked me, I knocked him down and basically sat on him till the police arrived which was about 25 minutes later.
Their suggestion was I should have taken him outside and given him a shoeing.
I know Narked. Amazing isn't it. I think Fastidia has addressed him for the same thing on another thread, just now.
Sorry OP for the slight derail. But these little digs from OMC are coming from the same place as the examples you gave in you OP.
I think it's time we developed selective hearing en masse.
Join the discussion
Please login first.