Does a prudish attitude towards sex reduce sex-crimes?

(57 Posts)
Charlizee Thu 24-Jan-13 20:01:10

And does censorship help reduce sex crimes?

Discuss.

chibi Thu 24-Jan-13 20:03:39

does posting an OP in such a high handed manner like this annoy?

discuss.

Given the amount of sex crime in Victorian times, I doubt it!

Portofino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:08:51

Sex crimes, ie rape, tend not to about sex, but rather than power and control. How would be being prudish help? Do you mean women should go round in ankle length clothing or something?

Portofino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:10:05

And censorship of what?

Charlizee Thu 24-Jan-13 20:14:21

By censorship I mean banning things like topless beaches/breastfeeding/public nudity etc and requiring a black bar be used to hide female nipples if a topless woman is printed or shown on TV.

Mitchy1nge Thu 24-Jan-13 20:16:10

OP are you obsessed with black bars over nipples or has someone else been repeating that phrase a lot lately?

seeker Thu 24-Jan-13 20:16:29

No. But it would reduce the reporting of them, and increase the suffering of the "victims"

FreyaSnow Thu 24-Jan-13 20:17:27

I'm mystified by this as I don't think rape of breasts is a common crime. If you google '4 types of rapists', you can get profiles and motivations of each type. That might help you understand what causes rape.

Charlizee Thu 24-Jan-13 20:20:07

@mitchy I did post that in another thread but it wasn't really relevant to that thread so I made a new one.

Charlizee Thu 24-Jan-13 20:23:09

Question-

If you were at a beach and a woman took her top off exposing her bare breasts and you had a young child with you what would you do? Make a fuss and cover your child's eyes or don't say anything at all?

Just curious.

No, I think that banning innocent nudity is more about a negative attitude to women than about "protecting" them.

And pictures of topless women are a symptom of an attitude to women that reduces them to commodities. Adding a black bar to their nipples would not improve this. Removing them completely from "ordinary" newspapers and magazines might help. And, again, I don't have any fundamental problem with nudity on TV etc where it is relevant and where men are similarly shown - have just been watching the box set of Rome, and we've seen a clearer view of James Purefoy than of any of the women.

NicholasTeakozy Thu 24-Jan-13 20:25:50

That's exactly right. Pushing the blame for rape and other sexual offences onto women is spot on. hmm Better that than blaming the actual rapists/sexual predators. Well fucking done.

And Porto is right. Rape is about power, fear and control.

I'd have had no problem with DS seeing a woman's breasts. I think it is healthy to see a range of normal bodies in normal situations, and not expect the world to be perfect and air-brushed.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Jan-13 20:28:21

Can you define a prudish attitude? Thanks.

If I could rephrase your question as, "Would a reduction in the perception and portrayal of women's bodies as a commodity in the media lead to a reduction in sex crime?" then I might be more inclined to answer "yes, it probably would, particularly in street harassment etc."

Bluestocking Thu 24-Jan-13 20:28:28

Why don't you tell us what you think, OP?

NicholasTeakozy Thu 24-Jan-13 20:28:48

If you were at a beach and a woman took her top off exposing her bare breasts and you had a young child with you what would you do? Make a fuss and cover your child's eyes or don't say anything at all?

I said nothing. By the time my and XWs kids went to a beach they already knew what breasts looked like as they'd been fed by them.

Are you usually this dense?

seeker Thu 24-Jan-13 20:30:11

Question. Why would a topless woman be shown in the press or on TV anyway?

Portofino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:33:53

I think that people should be able to walk round stark naked if that is what WANT without being in fear of being raped. Rape is not about what you are wearing or doing - it is having the misfortune to meet a rapist. Anything else is victim blaming.

BelaLugosisShed Thu 24-Jan-13 20:33:56

Don't you know OP? There is no rape or sexual assault in Saudi Arabia, oh wait.....

Portofino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:35:05

Obviously I realise that people naked in public might attract the attention of non-rapists and there are laws and stuff. But that has nothing to do with rape.

BelaLugosisShed Thu 24-Jan-13 20:36:55

I've been topless on holiday without a second thought, DH was surrounded by topless women at one point, he managed not to stick his penis into any of them.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 24-Jan-13 20:37:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Portofino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:37:45

Bela - that was SO good of him!

Smudging Thu 24-Jan-13 20:41:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SinisterSal Thu 24-Jan-13 20:42:00

I would hope there can be a view of sex and sexuality tht is neith prudish nor pornified. Sex crimes wouldn't make sense if sex was only about a meeting of minds as well as bodies.fun desire. By meeting of minds i don't mean twoo love neccessarily, but two people connecting on whatever level, not just two sets of genitals connecting.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 24-Jan-13 20:57:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 21:03:42

" I mean banning things like topless beaches/breastfeeding/public nudity etc and requiring a black bar be used to hide female nipples if a topless woman is printed or shown on TV. "

but breasts dont cause rape my dear. rape exists where breasts do not.

feministefatale Thu 24-Jan-13 21:07:01

Do women in burqas ever get raped?

Discuss.

SinisterSal Thu 24-Jan-13 21:17:16

Perhaps the answer is No ,actually on reflection it turns out that a bit of pornification and objectification is actually good for women. ! If i do a bit of soul searching i suppose ive only ever been against it cos im jealous and bitter. Feminism is such a crock.

Smudging Thu 24-Jan-13 21:19:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunnywithshowers Thu 24-Jan-13 21:23:29

No.

Not being near a rapist reduces sex crimes.

HTH.

I read a fascinating (though depressing) article about "Victorian values" recently - it was an account of a man who investigated prostitution and led to the increase of the age of consent to 16. Women as young as 12 were routinely being tricked into prostitution - they were raped, and then because they were "ruined" they could not return to their families or jobs and had to take what work they could get, which was in a brothel. Many of them agreed to be "seduced" for a small fee, without even understanding what it was they were agreeing to, and then had no choice of backing out of the deal nce it became clear what was happening (if they even understood it when it happened).

So - prudish attitudes and lack of sex education = easy to prey on young women and impossible for them to then escape.

feministefatale Thu 24-Jan-13 21:30:59

Just saw your pole dancing comment OP, is your point that we are all prudes and this doesn't stop rape? I am confused as your OP seems fairly ridiculous and pointless.

feministefatale Thu 24-Jan-13 21:32:55

I think most of us just want women to not be constantly seen as sex objects. That is nothing to do with breast feeding or just the female form. It's to do with expecting us to perform on polls in libraries.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 24-Jan-13 21:34:20

OP - prurient attitude towards, and fear of sex = prudishness. Can (and often does) go hand in hand with an oo-er missus attitude to all things even vaguely sexual, a tendency to sexualise things which are not in and of themselves sexual (e.g. going topless on the beach), and outright pornification of just about every aspect of culture.

Enthusiastic enjoyment of consensual sex, whether within a loving relationship or simply with another adult who you know to be as keen as you are and who is in a position to give free, uncoerced consent, and who you recognise as a fellow member of the human race = being a healthy well adjusted adult. Can (and often does) go hand in hand with a distaste for objectifcation, reduction of one's fellow humans to their genitalia and zero tolerance attitude towards sexual violence.

HTH.

RubyrooUK Thu 24-Jan-13 21:37:59

Isn't rape really about power OP? After all, men get raped too, not just women. It is about one person inflicting their power on another in the most intimate, taboo way possible. So I'm not sure what prudish attitudes have to do with that.

CrunchyFrog Thu 24-Jan-13 21:51:44

I live in quite a prudish society - rural NI. I can report that low-level sexual assault is alive and well, but only if the woman deserves it by being single, attractive, unattractive, made-up, not made up, is wearing clothes which are most, revealing or a combination, outside, indoors or otherwise alive while in the possession of a female body and no looming husband.

<having an annoying week>

Oh, and it's definitely her fault for leading them on/ frustrating them by not responding to their advances/ being out in public.

To be fair, it wouldn't be treated as a sex crime by the PSNI anyway. I mean, what's a little sexual language, intimidation and unprovable groping between enemies?

CrunchyFrog Thu 24-Jan-13 21:53:11

"rape really about power" - no, I don't think it's as simple as that at all.

There is a power imbalance issue, but I think a bigger issue is that entitlement to sex combined with a total lack of understanding of what consent means.

RubyrooUK Thu 24-Jan-13 22:01:09

But that's what I mean CrunchyFrog. Isn't rape one person deciding that they have the right to violate another without consent? That surely is someone who is interested in power over someone else. The sexual act is just the most intimate way of doing this to someone else.

RubyrooUK Thu 24-Jan-13 22:04:31

(I was just reading something about rapes in prison. Even in environments with no women, rape still exists. So my point was just that I didn't think censorship of women's bodies/breasts etc was the answer.)

Question: do you know what the root of 'prudish' is, and do you think it's a term used to make women feel shit about themselves?

Did you learn to write posts from a 1970s O Level paper?

Discuss.

Yes, banning breast feeding in public is going to help women. confused There is nothing even sexual about that!

Are you a man, OP?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 24-Jan-13 23:12:45

The OP is pro-sex industry and an advocate for the legalisation of prostitution. She's come here to enlighten us dried up old prunes.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 24-Jan-13 23:13:31

<sorry, satirical thread has affected my posting style> grin

JacqueslePeacock Thu 24-Jan-13 23:17:46

If I saw a woman's breasts I'd make a huge fuss AND cover my child's eyes immediately, yes. Don't want any child of mine thinking the human body is natural or normal.

JacqueslePeacock Thu 24-Jan-13 23:19:22

Black bars over nipples! What a great idea. I reckon that could singlehandedly eliminate most rapes. Where can I get a bar for mine?

thezebrawearspurple Thu 24-Jan-13 23:22:05

Go to Egypt, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc... and enjoy the reaction you get to walking down the street alone while female. Cultures with prudish attitudes toward sex have remarkably high rates of sex crimes toward women and street harassment is the norm.

runningforthebusinheels Thu 24-Jan-13 23:28:22

I was called a prude when I spoke out against the sex industry on a thread not too long ago <preens>

'Prude' is the modern day insult for feminists in these liberated times.

When I was watching 'Parade's End' (BBC drama from a book published in 1924) I was interested that a character said, of the Suffragettes, "well, you know they're all whores, don't you."

Interesting how the insults directed at feminists have changed over time.

Charlizee Fri 25-Jan-13 01:25:31

"Can you define a prudish attitude? Thanks."

Look at American for example when janet jackson's nipple slipped for about half a second on live TV. The whole country was in uproar and parents were complaining there children would be harmed because they saw a female nipple.

Some people really need to get over themselves.

feministefatale Fri 25-Jan-13 04:20:00

God I hope you are a man taking the piss Charlizee.

Portofino Fri 25-Jan-13 08:45:51

biscuit

This isn't the US though, is it, unless something about Cameron's plan to leave the EU has been arranged very sneakily while I wasn't looking?

I agree the US attitude to nudity is unhealthy. But nobody on this thread is saying that the sight of a naked breast upsets them in any way, if it is simple nudity. So what relevance does Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" have to our discussion?

Your minimal comments on this thread make it difficult to know what point you are trying to make - I assumed from your OP that you thought people ought to be more prudish to reduce sex crimes. But if you are in favour of the sex industry then you are presumably accusing us of being prudish and saying that is what is causing the problem?

Perhaps you would like to make a clear statement on what you are for and against, so that we can discuss specifics?

Personally - I am pro nudity, and pro consenting sex between adults.

I am against pornorgraphy and the sex industry, because -

1. in a large number of cases the women involved are not in a position to give genuine consent

2.the imagery involved is not positive and consensual even if the women themselves have consented. It therefore promotes a negative and abusive style of sexuality, which increases a culture in which sex crime is viewed as acceptable, and just part of a "sliding scale" of sexual expression, rather than an aberration.

Charlizee Fri 25-Jan-13 17:55:33

"I assumed from your OP that you thought people ought to be more prudish to reduce sex crimes."

Actually the opposite. I believe a healthy attitude towards sex and the human body is the best one to take.

I am also against censorship of porn and advocate legalized prostitution on the grounds it is between consenting adults and off the street.

If porn "increases a culture in which sex crime is viewed as acceptable" then why is it Japan has very low sex-crime for its population and it viewed as one of the safest countries for women yet the porn it produces is among the most extreme (and sometimes violent) porn in the world?

You mentioned yourself sex crime was still a large problem in Victorian-era Britain yet back then there was no internet porn at all and attitudes towards sex were very hush-hush.

Is it not possible to have a thriving porn industry and safety for women?

FreyaSnow Fri 25-Jan-13 18:08:11

Nobody is completely against censorship and limitations in the distribution of porn. People just have different ideas about what should and should not be available to view and in what context.

feministefatale Fri 25-Jan-13 18:08:50

Not when so many of the women in the porn industry are being raped. No

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Fri 25-Jan-13 18:10:11

biscuit

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