This has really upset me.

(62 Posts)
HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 17:28:25

Man out on bail for rape of daughter

Basically this animal man raped his daughter for over 10 years. She finally got her day in court and the 12 year sentence was reduced to 3 years ANC he's been given bail to appeal.

This judge gives very low sentences for sexual assualts. My daughters 11& 12 were listening to this with me and I told them the only way for change to shit like this is for them to strive and want change too. I told them to become future law makers.

I'm heartbroken for this woman, she is so brave and she deserved justice.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 17:29:17

ANC should be and.

TunipTheVegedude Mon 21-Jan-13 17:33:06

Poor woman.
They just don't seem to count harm done to women as very serious or important, really, do they?

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 17:37:14

No they don't. I'll try and put up the audio from this woman outside the court today. I was in tears listening to her.

Her mum stayed with the father and in the past called her 'your fathers whore'. The mother should've been in the dock too.

I just hope the woman of Ireland call for change.

tribpot Mon 21-Jan-13 17:46:08

On the other side if I impose a heavy sentence unsuspended I will be branded as a trial judge who substituted one injustice for another. I am trying to strike a balance.

Let me see if I could find the apparent injustice against a serial rapist as more palatable as a definite injustice towards his victim and daughter? <thinks carefully> Why yes I do.

The argument seems to be, he's old and so being in prison would be tough. Guess what - she was young. She was a child. She was his child. And the prison service confirmed they would be able to offer a reasonable standard of care. He's pleaded guilty and expressed remorse - this was hardly a one-off crime.

The judge then seems to have put the prosecuting attorney under pressure to be the one asking for a custodial sentence - WTF. The guy deserves to die in prison.

StuffezLaBouche Mon 21-Jan-13 17:52:02

I just dont get it. if he'd been raping unrelated women in their houses over a period of ten years he'd be down for life, surely? On crap phone so.cannot type what i want to say, but.just confusong and.upsetting.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 17:53:18

Tribpot, that's exactly it.

The audio is utterly heartbreaking, this woman was given no justice.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 17:56:08

Stuffez, this judge gives awful lenient sentences. I'm also on phone so not expressing myself properly. I feel I need to do something. I'm fed up of these men getting ridiculous sentences for crimes against women. What can I do -suggestions?!

spatchcock Mon 21-Jan-13 19:05:45

That poor woman. I feel teary after reading that. He's old and sick? Tough shit. His daughter will have to live with what he did to her for the rest of her life. He should be rotting in a dark dungeon somewhere. Disgraceful. The fact that he's expressed remorse is laughable. He raped her for ten years - he had plenty of time to think about what he's doing.

Is this some aspect of Irish law that has allowed this to happen? Or just because of this judge?

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Mon 21-Jan-13 19:12:55

This has really upset me too. It is becoming more and more obvious that women in Ireland arent worth considering, that we are lesser people. That we are not really people at all.

I have emailed the Rape Crisis Centre and the National Womens Council Ireland to see if there is anything to be done. This is the first time dI have ever done anything like this so I am not sure if I am going to the right places but its where I will start.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 19:25:01

It seems to be the judge.

I'm going to email the minister for justice this evening.
Marceline, both are great starting points too.
I want to email the Irish Times too.

I'm so very sad this evening that this judgement is so anti women.

Branleuse Mon 21-Jan-13 19:36:34

thats horrific. That poor woman

tribpot Mon 21-Jan-13 19:46:20

I went on to Twitter to see if any of the action groups had picked up on this - some outrage but so far no concerted campaign.

I would tweet it to Marian Keyes, she has an enormous following and was very outspoken following the death of Savita Halappanavar.

CashmereHoodlum Mon 21-Jan-13 19:48:09

Have just read the first couple of sentences and will read the rest later but are women in Ireland not entitled to anonymity in rape cases?

WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 21-Jan-13 19:50:54

This is why, I'm afraid, for scum like this, the death penalty in my opinion is the only real justice. He will very very likely get out of jail in a few years to go on and re-offend. With rapists and paedophiles, this is what generally happens.

TunipTheVegedude Mon 21-Jan-13 19:53:58

Cashmere, she chose to waive her anonymity.

feministefatale Mon 21-Jan-13 19:56:40

That is absolutely heart breaking. The little girl would just get in to position every night because she knew she was going to be raped. And this piece of shit gets out because he is OLD? And the judge struck a balance? That is an equal balanced punishment for raping your child? I wish I hadn't read it, it's the sort of things that makes you cry all night for your own daughters and wonder what the fuck you have done bringing them in to this world.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 19:58:13

I'm anti death penalty.

I'm glad this lady waived her right to anonymity. At least he's named and shamed.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 19:59:36

I'm sorry I've posted this. Maybe I shouldn't have but I'm really upset and something needs to change.

Will I try and get this deleted?

TunipTheVegedude Mon 21-Jan-13 20:01:27

No, please don't try and get it deleted. People need to know. And the thread title warns that it will be something upsetting so if people can't cope with it they will have avoided looking at the thread.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 20:02:54

Ok. You're right people need to know.

feministefatale Mon 21-Jan-13 20:11:58

Hey, it's my fault for reading it OP, I just wasn't expecting it to be as graphic as it was. The bit I mention about the little girl getting in to position made it seem "more real" than I was prepared for. My fault. Not yours. Don't delete. I do dispair some times though. My little girls is just a baby. HOw can you keep them safe? Who can you trust if you can't trust your daughter's father?

Smudging Mon 21-Jan-13 20:15:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tribpot Mon 21-Jan-13 20:18:09

Who can you trust if you can't trust your daughter's father?

Probably not relevant in this case, feministe, as the mother appears to have colluded in the abuse and referred to the child as 'your father's whore', which is quite staggering.

Unfortunately I can imagine that the chances of re-offending were part of the consideration. I'm assuming the father 'specialised' in child abuse rather than rape in general and thus provided any children in the family are safeguarded there is little chance of him re-offending (esp given the state of his health).

However, the sentencing seems to have focused on the fact 'he said sorry' and 'it happened a long time ago' - as if somehow that makes it all okay.

Smudging Mon 21-Jan-13 20:20:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HighBrows Mon 21-Jan-13 20:22:13

Yes this judge is horrific.

The while story makes me weep. The mothers part in it is beyond shocking.

Smudging Mon 21-Jan-13 20:46:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 21-Jan-13 21:01:13

Speaking as someone who's great grandfather was a paedophile and knowing people who have been raped as well as a family friend who was abused with the knowledge of her own mother, I stand by my opinion that the death penalty for these animals is the only way forward. Look statistically at the amount of scum who have sexual offences on their records, get jailed or appear in court, are in for a few years or months, and get out only to do it all over again to some innocent person or child. They have an illness and an urge that cannot be cured or rehabilitated, so making sure they can never do it again and be free in public is the only sure fire way to protect others.

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Mon 21-Jan-13 21:11:54

The Judges name rang a bell so in looking him up I was reminded of the rapist he left walk free from court, get on the same train home as his victim..

www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rape-victims-horror-as-attacker-walks-free-301990.html

I cant even explain this one its so shocking... (TRIGGER WARNING)

www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/gangrape-woman-arrested-during-trial-following-overdose-3017017.html

Snazzynewyear Mon 21-Jan-13 21:46:58

Unspeakable. What can be done? I am not in Ireland but if there is something useful I can add my support to I will.

sashh Tue 22-Jan-13 05:38:21

Will I try and get this deleted?

No. Don't. I'm upset by this, and I'm angry.

The more people are angry the closer to justice Fiona Doyle gets.

Normally I am anti vigilante justice. In this case I hope his neighbors are not speaking to him, that his relatives shun him, generally that he gets some form of punishment.

I am so angry about the way Irish women are treated. This is a European country, this is not Saudi or Afghanistan.

What can be done? I don't know.

Could this be discussed in the European Parliament?

Would that do any good?

All I know is I'm angry, and I'm not going to calm down soon.

CheerfulYank Tue 22-Jan-13 05:51:10

That scum sucking sack of shit. angry His own daughter, and just a tiny girl. sad

I'm in America, but is there anything I can do?

CheerfulYank Tue 22-Jan-13 05:56:18

And it says something about his wife??! Is the mother still married to him?

I honestly think I'd kill my DH.

AreYouADurtBirdOrALadyBird Tue 22-Jan-13 07:42:01

Something has to be done about this judge. His sentences are highly questionable.

WilsonFrickett Tue 22-Jan-13 11:30:51

Don't delete, it's important. Mr Justice Carney is clearly a rapist-loving woman-hater. Dear God. Something has to be done about his sentencing. Those poor, poor women.

TunipTheVegedude Tue 22-Jan-13 11:40:11

So shocked at those links Marceline.

dublinrose37 Tue 22-Jan-13 11:42:07

I did a law module in college back in the late 90's and we were told by our lecturer - a female feminist barrister - that in a lot of Western countries sex crimes against women are just not seen as being all that serious. I didn't believe her but looking at some of the high profile cases over the past few years I have to wonder. Its just heartbreaking to think that poor woman has put herself through all that only to see her attacker walk free. I'm sure she heard the guilty verdict and thought she finally had her justice, she must have been devestated to find out he was never going to serve a day. Its scary, its no wonder so few people report sex attacks, would you have any faith in the system after that?

AbigailAdams Tue 22-Jan-13 11:59:30

This is really part of the War on Women. Just in Ireland rather than America.

It is horrific that a man like this, in this day and age still has influence over women's lives. Just in case anyone thought the fight for equality had been won, here is someone to prove no, it really hasn't.

He is a misgoynist and should be removed from office.

And the links are heart-breaking.

CheerfulYank Tue 22-Jan-13 18:14:10

I cannot stop thinking about this...and so betrayed by her mother to, it's awful. I just don't understand that mentality...I could never imagine DH doing something like that (of course!) but if he did I'd rip him apart before I let him near my children ever again.

It says they have turned that poor woman's daughter against her? Wonder if that evil man hurt her the same.

God it's just awful. Can't we do something?

bigkidsdidit Tue 22-Jan-13 18:21:15

I'm not reading any links, I can't bear it.

The only thing I can think of doing is kick up a stink about the judge. Put together a letter and send to the equivalent of the DPP here. Write to papers. Tweet. Marian Keyes is very hot on tweeting about the way women are treated in Ireland?

FarelyKnuts Wed 23-Jan-13 01:32:13

Paul Carney (the judge) is a misogynistic bastard who is renowned for giving rapists a free pass.
There is talk now of a judicial group being set up to try and make sentencing more consistent and fair. Too late for Fiona however.
My mate is up in the high court in Oct bringing her BIL up on charges for repeatedly sexually abusing her as a child and she is terrified she will get Paul Carney as the judge.

FarelyKnuts Wed 23-Jan-13 02:17:18

Oh and any Irish women and men who want to do something about this... there is a protest march in Dublin on sat at 12.30pm

MildDrPepperAddiction Wed 23-Jan-13 04:13:07

This judge is a disgrace to the profession and a menace to the courts.
He should be removed from this position.
That poor woman's devastation is impossible to measure.

Suesue22 Wed 23-Jan-13 16:26:12

There's a FB page justice for Fiona Doyle which has information and links to online petition. Everyone needs to show as much support to this girl so hopefully that bast@rd gets what he deserves.

tribpot Wed 23-Jan-13 16:36:25
HeyHoHereWeGo Wed 23-Jan-13 16:36:42

My reading of this case is thus:

The judge is yes an arrogant bastard who does not reallt rate crimes against women.
Plus - he has a grudge against the CCA (court of criminal appeal) who reduced his sentence against a very old man for a (much lesser) sexual crime.
This is the judge's revenge.
Like you tell you child to take off her coat because shes inside in a hot room, then she refuses to put it on going out in the cold and she says "Well you told me to take my coat off, make up your mind"
Its that same logic.
He is pissed off at being contradicted.

OP, this is the same judge who let out fully on suspended sentence a man who climbed in a woman's window and raped her. He let him out on suspended sentence because THE RAPIST PROMISED TO GO TO ENGLAND TO WORK

This is also the judge who (Lavinia Kerwick case - and I am so sorry that I remember the victims name but not the rapists!) gave a ONE YEAR SUSPENDED SENTENCE to a rapist, as it was "only" a non-violent date rape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Booyhoo Wed 23-Jan-13 16:50:21

this is terrifying.

WowOoo Wed 23-Jan-13 16:57:13

Thanks for petition. Shared and signed.

HighBrows Thu 24-Jan-13 12:01:11

Patrick O'Briens bail has been rescinded, he is starting his 3 year sentence today and the judge has apologised. Still not good enough, the sentence too lenient and the apology feels hallow. I'm still saddened by the whole story.

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Thu 24-Jan-13 12:15:29

I was just about to link Highbrows! xpost!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0124/364250-obrien/

HighBrows Thu 24-Jan-13 12:21:58

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0124/breaking14.html

It's something I suppose, I just hope the bad handling of this case will evoke some kind of judicial review.

HeyHoHereWeGo Thu 24-Jan-13 13:48:33

It is something. It is good. And I am suprised that a judge changed his mind. Was there massive political pressure put on him> I suspect that the outrage, the media, rape crises centre etc all played their part.
So brave for this woman to call on her father to accept his (short) sentence and not to appeal.
Lets face it if he appeals he'll serve longer.
I hope the DPP does still appeal the leniency.
I wish he got an American style 126 years!!!

MarcelineTheVampireQueen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:27:40

Political pressure has never changed his mind before in any of the dodgy verticts he has given. Lots of reporters say he is a media hound, always looking for the big cases, of he doesnt recognise a reported in the court, the reporter is questioned as to who he is and what paper he is from.

I think of all else, with tensions being so high in the community, that there were probably rumours of vigilantes in the area, that man was getting punished one way or another.

Schnarkle Thu 24-Jan-13 16:02:30

Delighted that the DPP dragged his sorry ass back to the courts today. The bastard is so sick that this 3 years is literally a life sentence for him. The wife hopefully will have a lonely bitter life ahead of her to look forward to.

StephaniePowers Thu 24-Jan-13 16:07:29

I wonder precisely what in this judge's history makes him so lenient towards rapists and child rapists.

HeyHoHereWeGo Thu 24-Jan-13 16:40:27

He desn't see women and children as full people I would say...

SinisterSal Thu 24-Jan-13 20:31:17

An apology was nice to hear.

HilaryClinton Thu 24-Jan-13 21:07:17

I would also be interested StephaniePowers because he has given more than one 30 year sentence for drugs offences.

spatchcock Fri 25-Jan-13 15:39:50

Good. I'm glad he's been sent down, even if it is just for three years. Three years will feel a long time to someone of his age.

Judge Paul Carney is a disgraceful example of how the law so often fails to protect women and children.

WowOoo Fri 25-Jan-13 16:59:00

Am glad he was persuaded a re think.
Hope that petition made a difference.

But still, doesn't seem like justice to me.
Exactly HighBrows, it's just not good enough.

SinisterSal Sat 26-Jan-13 00:02:59

Fiona Doyle was telling her story on thr Late Late just there. You might catch it on plus one, or it may be on rte.ie search for late late show if you are not in ireland. Its very upsetting but powerful. You have our support Fiona if by chance you see this. And your daughter is a wonderful young woman! She got it from you.

What is it about young women that this judge hates? He gave a fifteen year sentence to a man who raped a 75 year old woman. (Unless I've read that wrong, apologies if I have)

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now