Do you think it would be better if there wern't a feminism subject on mumsnet?

(96 Posts)
HalloweenNameChange Sun 18-Nov-12 19:49:41

Just that while it is sometimes nice to preach to the choir (and comfy)..but the people who could really do with a bit of learning actually block the feminist section as a whole.

I have been annoyed when subjects get moved from chat to feminism for that reason.

HalloweenNameChange Sun 18-Nov-12 19:50:38

Oh and before someone deliberately misinterprets what I have said.. I love the feminism section and have learned loads. Just realize many are missing it.

BertieBotts Sun 18-Nov-12 19:55:19

No, I think it's a good thing. It shows that feminism is accepted and I think that feminism awareness or whatever does filter out into other threads too. Just do a search for "partner housework" in a year before the feminist section existed, and then for a more recent year - there's a definite shift in how the threads tend to go and advice that posters get - and I don't mean leave the bastard grin (although that comes up too!) but there is much less commiserating, agreeing, patting on the back/men don't see dirt, my husband is the same etc etc. There are far more posters now willing to stand up and say, well, my husband pulls his weight, don't expect anything less! and offer strategies for talking/discussing the issue like adults rather than suggestions to "train" him or withold sex if he doesn't clean hmm

So, I don't think that people do miss out. But I like the fact there's a safe space (well, to an extent) that subjects can be discussed which are perhaps a bit heavier, which some people might want to ignore. That's their choice. But the feminism section has changed things for the better on mumsnet, IMO.

LastMangoInParis Sun 18-Nov-12 19:57:57

I've thought it's strange that a forum that's populated mainly by women has a separate FWR section - as if FWR are somehow optional or separate to women's lives generally. And I think it's a shame that seemingly quite a lot of MNers avoid the FWR boards or have said they think FWR is not for them.
But no, I think it's great that FWR section is here. Love it. Find it fascinating and have learnt a lot from it. So wouldn't want to be without it. But yes, often I wish that discussions which are over here were on AIBU or somewhere where more posters would get involved. And wish that some of the very brilliant psts on FWR boards were in AIBU so more people would them.

HalloweenNameChange Sun 18-Nov-12 19:58:57

That's a good point Bertie, Maybe the fem section trains you up so you can go out in to the "real world" chat and aibu and deal with things better. I do like that if I ask a question here it won;t usually be mocked or shot down in flames straight away but I do worry about the people who gleefully admit they block the feminism section.

SamuraiCindy Sun 18-Nov-12 20:01:56

Do people really block it?? Why?? This section is so eye-opening, once you read and learn and take a new look at issues concerning women that are NEVER mentioned elsewhere to any great degree. I would even go so far as say least it has been for me.

I think just going from my own experiences (I was curious about mumsnet after having children and this section caught my eye) I am SO GLAD this section is here. if it hadn't been here, I would be a different person I think. I would see things differently.

AbigailAdams Sun 18-Nov-12 20:02:28

Well I thought it was odd when I first joined that a forum mainly populated by women didn't have a women's rights section. grin Although I get your point completely LastTango! There should be no need for it.

ILoveSparklers Sun 18-Nov-12 20:06:47

Umfortunately, not everyone wants to talk about feminism, I see your point but I don't see where else it would go?

ILoveSparklers Sun 18-Nov-12 20:11:26

Some people have enough of their plate and don't fancy considering something they see as political. Or they come here for entertainment rather than debate and enlightenment. Where else would you post feminist stuff?

LaCiccolina Sun 18-Nov-12 20:13:13

Odd. Isn't feminism really within most conversations or events? Bit like politics. Most conversations revolve in a fashion around politics and recently I'm either getting older or more political as I'm noticing more stuff relating to feminism!!! It should crop up within most boards shouldn't it? Even with a separate area for deeper discussion....

LastMangoInParis Sun 18-Nov-12 20:24:38

Isn't feminism really within most conversations or events?
This is what I think, Cicc (as do most regular FWR posters, I should imagine). Also SWYM, Sparklers about people feeling they have 'enough on their plates'. But feminism's so interesting in that respect, isn't it? I wonder how many women have felt they don't want their everyday lives 'politicised' until a point comes when the ostrich path of least resistance ceases to be an option.... WRT which, was also thinking about how feminist perspectives outside FWR boards on MN seem to be most visible on Relationships threads where OPs are posting about how things have reached breaking point for them.

TeiTetua Sun 18-Nov-12 20:29:22

"nice to preach to the choir" - implying that everyone here agrees on anything? That'll be the day.

In fact, that'll be the day we know we live under dictatorship.

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 18-Nov-12 20:44:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto Sun 18-Nov-12 20:51:02

Feminist conversation still goes on off the FWR boards, IMO it's just a good place for theoretical conversation as well. And it has often been a place of refuge for rape survivors, before the trolls roamed free.

Trills Sun 18-Nov-12 20:51:43


AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 20:57:55

I don't change what I say on this section, than I would on any other

ConsiderCasey Sun 18-Nov-12 21:21:47

I love it. When I'm in the outside world (ie. the rest of Mumsnet) I feel a bit nervous about saying anything too feministy for fear of being seen a bit nutty (although I do it anyway) whereas here, I know that I'm in the company of like-minded people and that I can be myself.

Sometimes I don't even mind the outsider trolls who come in here to tell us we are all harridans and need to be grateful to men for going to war, etc, because they are usually, um, not very eloquent and get put in their place good and proper.

ashesgirl Sun 18-Nov-12 21:28:49

I do know what you mean, halloween, and have wondered if this section is a bit 'ghettoised', for want of a better word.

At the same time, I'm very glad it's here.

FrancesFarmer Sun 18-Nov-12 22:14:54

This is probably the most thought-provoking section of mumsnet and one of my favourites. Long may it prosper.

Unfortunately, the general populace's ignorance of feminism is such that discussion informed by feminist thought is often rubbished on more main-stream forums, even those used mostly by women. On the other hand, I'm sure many women have stumbled upon this section and learned from it and that can only be a good thing.

AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 22:17:33

yes, FF, very true

ashesgirl Sun 18-Nov-12 22:28:51

Whoever said that this area spreads out to the rest of the MN is right.

It was great to see a very lively debate on sexism in the Asda advert in the main chat area.

rubyrubyruby Sun 18-Nov-12 22:32:06

I'm not sure

...... Shall I ask my DH?


AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 22:32:14

it spills out into Relationships topic very regularly, also

ashesgirl Sun 18-Nov-12 22:33:44

True, AF, it does a massive service to women in awful relationships on that board.

LastMangoInParis Sun 18-Nov-12 22:50:16

Was thinking about your great posts on Relationships board when posting above, AF.
But sometimes it seems that unless posters have reached the very desperate situations that are often posted about on Relationships, there's antipathy towards obviously feminist arguments outside the FWR section - or, as FrancesFarmer has said, a sort of knee-jerk rubbishing of feminist ideas. (Or perhaps I'm giving too much weight to the very view but somehow very vociferous posters who say they avoid FWR boards when every now and again a thread starts elsewhere about FWR.) It seems sad that feminism (or Feminism) can still be seen as some osrt of 'alternative' political thought, or some sort of luxury banter, when it's so relevant to everything, and when such 'extreme' (violent, life threatening) examples of women's experience sometimes seem to be what it takes for people to start thinking along overtly feminist lines.

I agree that FWR threads are sometimes quite theoretical - and maybe it's 'different' from other MN boards in this respect in some ways. And I guess that's one of the great things about the FWR section. I still 'miss' posts by posters like KRITIQ on other MN boards, though.

AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 22:57:29

sometimes on a thread where it is quite clear a relationship is abusive, adding a feminist perspective is literally like lighting a touchpaper

and I don't mean the reaction of the OP necessarily, although that can happen

I am thinking more of the handmaiden army marching in, to defend the indefensible, and attempt to shout down posters who say "you don't have to tolerate being treated like a second class citizen"

it is very demoralizing, and makes one want to withdraw to areas where you know other people understand what you are trying to say

Totally agree with Frances I am one of those who stumbled upon the feminism boards and I have learnt a lot, and sharpened my perspective on many issues.

Snazzyfeelingfestive Sun 18-Nov-12 23:06:14

No, I don't think it would be better. I think it's good to have the section while also feeling that it shouldn't mean no feminist comment can ever stray outside that section. We can have both.

GrimmaTheNome Sun 18-Nov-12 23:09:24

>I have been annoyed when subjects get moved from chat to feminism for that reason.

Do threads get moved without MNHQ asking the OP (a) if they want it moved and (b) if so where it should move to? If someone raises an issue in Chat because they want a wide audience, it would seem wrong if it got moved to somewhere less visible.

caramelwaffle Sun 18-Nov-12 23:13:16

No. It would'nt be better.

LastMangoInParis Sun 18-Nov-12 23:15:11

IKWYM about 'handmaiden army', AF - and might go and check Relationships boards some time (not now) - but as I see it, these posters tend to be very much in the minority when somebody in an abusive relationship is getting support on Relationships threads. And as I see it, there tend to be many more posters explaining why the handmaiden/apologists aren't making much sense. This is why I see the Relationships board as a place where overtly feminist thought does seem to (finally) be accepted as logical and necessary (and so I wonder why we don't see more regular Relationships posters over here), whereas on other boards (AIBU, for example), there's much more of a 'don't rock the boat, that's life' approach - probably because the situations described aren't so obviously unjust, terrifying, threatening, etc. (Or that's the way I see it, anyway.)

ISWYM about coming back here as a place of relative safety and sanity, though.

I wonder how many posters who don't post much on FWR boards have a lurk here when they find from time to time that Feminist thinking is suddenly very obviously needed, but still don't post because they're still somehow wary of Feminism?

AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 23:18:13

Mango, I very much find that AIBU is an outpost of the "handmaiden army", tbh

That is a very controversial comment though, and has been the subject of many a spat on here (directly and indirectly)

Some of the most vociferous users of AIBU are the most staunch slaggers of the FWR topic

Go figure confused

caramelwaffle Sun 18-Nov-12 23:20:01

AnyFucker Sun 18-Nov-12 23:18:13
"Some of the most vociferous users of AIBU are the most staunch slaggers of the FWR topic"

Yes. I've noticed that.

TheNebulousBoojum Sun 18-Nov-12 23:24:24

I think it's fantastic to have both, a FWR board and all the associated discussions and topics and the fact that FWR can exert a positive and powerful influence on discussions on other areas of the site.
Yes, a number of women have hidden the boards because of past experiences on them, or because they don't see the relevance, but that is their right and by engaging in discussion within topics outside the FWR boards, they may well change their opinions as to the significance and impact of feminist thinking on their own lives.

GrimmaTheNome Sun 18-Nov-12 23:28:52

>don't post because they're still somehow wary of Feminism?
could be that they are confused as to what exactly feminism is ...if it even has one definition. However, I would have thought that regardless of that, the other half of the title is 'women's rights' which doesn't seem like something that many could be wary of.

WilsonFrickett Sun 18-Nov-12 23:32:00

I like having both. I like that this is a relatively safe space to ask questions, will never forget finding this section after getting involved in an abortion thread and had a bit of a re-awakening. I don't think there's anywhere else on MN where I could post the first post I put here (which was just something very simple about feminist books but it still couldn't have been posted elsewhere).

I also like the feeling when you're on, say, a 'my husbands been lapdancing' thread and people pile on with 'oh, that's not so bad' you see posters from here arriving and feel 'phew, here's the cavalry'. (does that make it a quiche?).

LastMangoInParis Sun 18-Nov-12 23:41:53

the other half of the title is 'women's rights' which doesn't seem like something that many could be wary of.

Well... exactly!

Should we be thinking about reorganising 'FWR' to 'WRF' so as to seem less confusing to our more timorous sistren? wink
(I hope not... looks too much like WWF or WTF for my liking.)

Still... where is everyone?

GrimmaTheNome Sun 18-Nov-12 23:45:43

> like that this is a relatively safe space to ask questions
yes - and the nature of discussions here can be very different to the same subject covered under eg 'in the news'.

TheNebulousBoojum Sun 18-Nov-12 23:49:47

'Still... where is everyone?'

Sadly, when there were disagreements as to the nature and role of the FWR boards, and the heated discussions on the differences between different shades of feminism, radical, liberal, Marxist etc, a lot of erudite and committed people decided that the boards were changing into something that wasn't what they wanted, so they left.
There are occasional visits, but not the same level of traffic as there used to be a year ago.

rosabud Mon 19-Nov-12 00:26:33

I find this section extremely interesting and I am a very busy person who shouldn't really be wandering around the internet so really don't often have time to look around the rest of the site very often. So you could say that I am on this section and blocking the rest of swings and roundabouts.........

alexpolismum Mon 19-Nov-12 07:19:49

I don't always post, but I read this section all the time. I have learnt such a lot from it and I think MN would be poorer without it.

I do get the point about it being something that shouldn't be necessary, but such is the world we live in, it is necessary. And although you can find feminist viewpoints on other threads, it's nice to have them all here in one place, and there are things that have been discussed here that I don't think would have discussed outside a specific feminism category. It really is an education.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 19-Nov-12 09:14:34

I'm glad we have this section. It's reminded me that I am a feminist and opened my eyes to my level of privilege.

The "oh go back to FWR" posts do bemuse me though, as if feminism was mutually incompatible with an interest in any other subject.

OneMoreChap Mon 19-Nov-12 11:18:51

I think mumsnet would be much poorer without a FWR section.

I learn quite a lot here, and get my hackles raised moderately often, which is good. From posting and reading here, I learned about privilege - and what it really means (sadly, thanks to a post from a bloke).

I suspect one of the issues is that people who don't come here think that feminism is monolithic, which it very clearly is not, and that "they all agree with each other" which is also not the case.

While it's here, I shall visit, read and occasionally post - albeit from the perspective of someone who doesn't identify as feminist, but fellow-traveler. Oh, in defence of <menz>, disagreement with some views, of some feminists, does not make one an MRA...

EldritchCleavage Mon 19-Nov-12 11:28:20

If we lose FWR then I think in reality we will lose the chance to have the kinds of discussions you see on the thread. Threads on feminism or with a feminist slant posted on other topics tend to get shouted down.

And FWR has an unfortunate history on MN, certainly in the few years I've been reading. With any luck the more distant we get from that history, the more poster will give FWR a try.

ByTheWay1 Mon 19-Nov-12 11:28:42

I "visit" occasionally, but it does get my hackles up from time to time -

I am not eloquent enough to argue my point - and I get fed up of being told time and time again that the choices I have made haven't been made by me at all, but by ingrained paternalistic society.... so I tend to avoid

HalloweenNameChange Mon 19-Nov-12 14:38:24

The comment that FWR feels a bit "ghettoized" is kind of what I was getting at. I can't imagine anyone blocking a subject called human rights. But for some reason many women see feminism as being some thing other, that doesn't affect them at all and I worry that in website mostly devoted to women having a special subject that you can block seems to feed in to the idea. I have seen it mentioned in FWR that you can look at anything through a feminist angle and it would be nice to see that drip out a bit more on the other threads, But I guess we need both.

TheNebulousBoojum Mon 19-Nov-12 16:56:34

Has that been the case in the last few months, ByTheWay?
Because that response used to be much more common a year ago, but the dynamics of the boards have changed quite a lot.

TeiTetua Mon 19-Nov-12 17:30:50

I think it should be obvious when there are opinionated individuals versus when there's a group consensus. That "You don't really own your choices (silent addition: except if you agree with me)" line is just a few people's opinion, and most others never went along with it. It's too bad that people often seem to be intimidated by this section just because there are some opinions being expressed. Opinions is all they are, and anyone can say their piece. Besides, if you feel you've made a real fool of yourself, go away and come back tomorrow with a new name. Nobody will ever know.

GothAnneGeddes Mon 19-Nov-12 17:53:29

I glad it's here, but sad that quite a few MN posters have such an antipathy towards it.

AIBU frequently shows me that we need more feminism, not less.

alexpolismum Mon 19-Nov-12 17:59:26

I never venture into AIBU, unless I accidentally click on something in Active Convos. Is it really that bad??

GrimmaTheNome Mon 19-Nov-12 18:04:55

>I never venture into AIBU, unless I accidentally click on something in Active Convos. Is it really that bad??
Its a mix of the good, the bad and the downright ugly, with the occasional flash of howlingly funny.

HalloweenNameChange Mon 19-Nov-12 18:15:42

AIBU, is a helluva lot scarier than the fwr section. I have been roasted, roasted I tell you.

alexpolismum Mon 19-Nov-12 18:20:57

[wonders off to have a look at AIBU out of curiosity]

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 21:36:57

I certainly do wonder what the fuck happened to the feminism topic, when I see threads like the pole dancing one, and the shite that is currently being spouted on it.

BelleDameSousMistletoe Mon 19-Nov-12 21:44:51

Everything AF said.

I am stunned at some of the crap posted on other parts of this site and "handmaiden army" sums it up perfectly.

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 21:48:51

I have just flounced off another thread on this topic.

I never flounce, I nearly always stay and fight my argument. I just can't be arsed any more.

LastMangoInParis Mon 19-Nov-12 21:51:03

Aw, go on, AF, I'm curious.
What's the problem with the other thread?
Is it that it's about poledancing? Something that was said? If so tell us.
Apologising in advance if my very asking pisses you off even more, but tell us. Please.

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 21:53:02

It's bad form to talk about another thread, I will get my wrists slapped (again) grin

Go read it for yourself. I am not pissed off, I am weary

BelleDameSousMistletoe Mon 19-Nov-12 22:01:03

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I can't be arsed with it all any more. I'm so tired of all the stereotyping and constant belittling that goes on in other parts of MN. I don't post half as much as I used to. Maybe it's time for Gransnet. My mum likes it. <sighs>

TeiTetua Mon 19-Nov-12 22:02:30

Oh, come on. Cultivate the fine art of eye-rolling, murmur sweetly "My oh my, how the twits have taken over the world" and take a break for a couple of hours. Discussions move pretty fast here, so you can come back later and the tone is sure to have changed.

Sometimes I make myself think about this cartoon. Really.

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 22:20:26

I know, TT

I am not that delicate a flower. Sometimes you have to withdraw though for your own well being and so you don't get another ban smile

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 22:21:47

I did get some very nice pm's though, so that cheered me up grin

AbigailAdams Mon 19-Nov-12 22:24:05

I didn't even know you got banned, AF. I can guess why. Mentioning no names and all wink

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 22:25:52


AbigailAdams Mon 19-Nov-12 22:31:38

And now you've got me embroiled in pole dancing FFS. <stares at AF sternly, and fails>. I am off to bed before small wakes me up for his statutory 10 times tonight.

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 22:46:17

Oh, I am a baaad fucker grin

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 19-Nov-12 23:03:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BelleDameSousMistletoe Mon 19-Nov-12 23:04:54

Nope, shouldn't have read the pole dancing thread. Gransnet here I come, I think.

How can they be so dense?!

summerflower Mon 19-Nov-12 23:05:09

I'm another one who doesn't really have time to go beyond FWR, unless it is to lurk on the Stately Homes thread (not had the courage to post there yet, though). I'm not sure if there is a relationship between feminism and narcisstic mothers, though...

That aside, FWR, when I first discovered it, was like a breath of fresh air. I used to be on another forum where I was lone feminist. I was turning into a caricature of myself. Here, there are a whole range of feminisms, which is what makes this place nice. I was only here a short time before the early summer implosion, and the debate re-awakened my mind. I'm not sure that pole-dancing has the same effect, but then I haven't read the thread.

I am not sure how you can get to any reasonable age and not question the way in which gender shapes our lives and the losers are women. Once you switch on to that, you see it everywhere. I think that is why some people hide the topic, awareness of inequality makes life too uncomfortable.

summerflower Mon 19-Nov-12 23:06:50

I have a regrettable tendency to write long and waffly posts in amongst other people's banter.

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 19-Nov-12 23:07:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker Mon 19-Nov-12 23:11:22

me too, summer, and I am also drawn to the stately Homes thread but am too afraid to post too smile

belle, get ya knitting, we are orf to Gransnet grin

WilsonFrickett Tue 20-Nov-12 10:51:10

Belle if you think they are being dense, please feel free to pop over and tell me them on the actual thread.

AF I'll hide your coffee if you don't play nice grin

How can they be so dense?!

I may be many things but I am certainly not dense thanks!

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 12:12:58

wilson, FWIW, I wasn't referring to your contributions, nor to betty's smile

some crossocer going on here, I have forgotten what we are talking about

was it cupcakes ? Serves me right for mentioning another thread.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 12:13:09


WilsonFrickett Tue 20-Nov-12 13:28:42

It was the dense comment that annoyed tbf. AF I will let you off if you tell me if a cupcake is really just a cupcake, or some sort of FWR code cos I'm feeling paranoid now

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 13:47:01

I was going to give you some guff about cupcakes being a euphemism for breasts but I would be lying, so I won't.

HalloweenNameChange Tue 20-Nov-12 13:47:58

finish reading the pole thread, it goes off in to some tangent about the passe(ness) that's not a word of cupcakes.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 13:54:53

Keepin' it light. Like a true cupcake should be. smile

BelleDameSousMistletoe Tue 20-Nov-12 17:19:24

I stand by my comment which referred to those who seemingly do not understand/or do not wish to understand how normalising an activity which is almost solely related to the sex industry in the UK is damaging to other women and girls.

Xenia Tue 20-Nov-12 18:09:48

It is a very good thing.
When we have as many threads under feminism as weight loss we may be starting to get somewhere.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 20-Nov-12 18:16:36

And maybe in the distant future there will be none at all because everyone will have got there! Like, I dunno, we don't need an anti-slavery topic.

HalloweenNameChange Tue 20-Nov-12 18:47:36

Off topic I guess, but I recently read that there are more people in slavery today then in all of human history.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 20-Nov-12 19:09:21

I realised that was sadly a bad example after I'd hit post sad

HalloweenNameChange Tue 20-Nov-12 19:20:47

Do not worry grimma for I am the Queen of posting and then thinking.

scottishmummy Thu 22-Nov-12 08:03:14

feminism section had a fractious period dominated by strident posters
that has largely resolved
and its really patronising to say people could do with learning.are you Guru to impart to the unlearned

rosabud Thu 22-Nov-12 09:19:03

It's only patronising to say people could do with learning about something if it's a subject they already know a lot about or a subject that has no relevance to them.

If it's a subject that they don't have much knowledge of and is relevant to them then it's not patronising to say they could do with learning it. It's true.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 22-Nov-12 09:24:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Xenia Thu 22-Nov-12 09:38:07

I think most humans on the planet know that feminism just means treating men and women equally under the law, at work and at home. It is a dead easy concept. you don't need a PhD in it. It's about if he plays golf for 4 hours on Sundays she gets to go running or do her hobby on Saturday for 4 hours. If she does 3 hours washing he does 3 hours cooking etc etc Equal pay for work of equal value too.

ByTheWay1 Thu 22-Nov-12 09:53:54

and here we are on "mumsnet".....

GrimmaTheNome Thu 22-Nov-12 10:23:48

'By parents, for parents' ...but still overwhelmingly 'mums'...which is one of the reasons feminism is so relevant.

Xenia - not just men and women, boys and girls too, of course. Particularly obvious near xmas the inequalities of how boys and girls are considered.

scottishmummy Thu 22-Nov-12 19:34:08

the patrionising bit is those who feel its their role to impart to the unlearned
share your opinion,have lively riposte,but dont kid yourself on you're necessarily helping with learning
thats is what was problematic wiith FWR before. the strident belief people had about their role and apparent need for learning in sets up a default of entitlement,those who feel they must impart certain opinion and assume others need isnt a tutorial based degree,its online opinion.

GrimmaTheNome Thu 22-Nov-12 19:37:20

I did occasionally feel that there were one or two people who believed that people who diverged from their particular creed needed re-educating.

scottishmummy Thu 22-Nov-12 19:41:34

that was the rub,the preachy patronising tone of strident posters educating the unlearned
it all got v dictatorial and deviance from ascribed stance was mra,antifeminist

TheNebulousBoojum Thu 22-Nov-12 20:55:01

grin[ I used to mind asking basic questions and being told that the FWR boards were not there to educate people. I like areas of obscurity and confusion for me being untangled by them wot get it.
Then I could choose to agree or disagree with the interpretation, but at least I had a starting point.

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