Which entrenched views need to change in society

[rainbowinthesky]

The following are things I've noticed in my time on mumsnet

the view that childcare costs come from the woman's wage

men are not able to cook/clean/do laundry because they are men (always with a lol after stating this)

men need a list in order to look after their own kids

and so on

[MyGoldenNotebook]

Well, all of those need to change. Obviously.

I don't see these views appearing AS much among (most of!)my friends (I'm youngish - in my twenties) I must admit; so hopefully these nonsense views are phasing out!

Hear it all the time from older women in the staffroom when I'm at work.

Think it can be different among different social groups too. Educated women tend to stand for it less. Not always of course - but generally.

[skidoodly]

the notion that men are "visual creatures"

[HerBeatitude]

The widely held notion that women's lives, concerns, opinions and feelings are less important than men's.

[skidoodly]

the idea that consulting your partner before taking a decision that will affect both of you (and often your children too) is the same as "asking for permission"

[Bramshott]

the view that only mothers are concerned with the day to day business of bring up children.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

The assumption that a woman who claims to have been raped is lying unless it is proven otherwise to an astonishing degree. Consent is assumed even in the unlikeliest of circumstances - for example when the woman is unconscious, when she was just taking a routine journey with an unknown minicab driver, when injuries are present afterwards.

The commonly held notion that women are able to - and frequently do - "get themselves pregnant".

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

..and the general, tiresomely resilient view that women think/drive/throw/work/argue/ in ways that are very different and inferior to the ways men do things.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

If a bloke has to take some time from work to go and attend to a sick child/watch a school play = he is a hero and a wonderful father

If a working woman does the same = she is a flake

[DuelingFanjo]

"the view that childcare costs come from the woman's wage"

do people really still think this!

The idea that women are more emotional than menand so therefore those emotions are just women being women plut the idea that women can't think rationally because they are probably driven by hormones.

That men 'babysit' their own kids!

[LaurieFairyCake]

That there is such a thing as a 'crime of passion'

That it is a defence to murder if you say he was 'nagged'

That single mothers are villified rather than the absent father

[DuelingFanjo]

and

'oh she must be having her period' when a woman is upset/emotional etc.

I think real emotional resonses to people are often dismissed.

[skidoodly]

the view that it is an unconscionable curtailment of a man's human rights to expect him to care whether a woman he is paying to penetrate has been coerced

apparently it's OK to rape someone as long as you're not sure they are being forced

[skidoodly]

the fallacy that one man has wisdom to impart to women about all men

[Bonsoir]

I believe very strongly that childcare costs must be set against a couple's second income and are not a joint cost to be shared by both parents.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

"the view that it is an unconscionable curtailment of a man's human rights to expect him to care whether a woman he is paying to penetrate has been coerced"

Absolutely, brilliantly put skiddodly

[LaurieFairyCake]

Why Bonsoir?

[TrillianAstra]

"the view that childcare costs come from the woman's wage"

But in accounting terms you have to weigh up the wage of the second parent working against childcare to see if it leaves you better off than having just one parent working and no childcare costs. And the second parent working is nearly always the woman.

Agree very strongly with:

"If a bloke has to take some time from work to go and attend to a sick child/watch a school play = he is a hero and a wonderful father

If a working woman does the same = she is a flake"

[LaurieFairyCake]

Yes, i can see that in accounting terms but working is sometimes about so much more than accounting - for some people it's about self-respect, maintaining an independant identity, carrying on a previously trained for career, being a role model to your children.

[TrillianAstra]

So then you decide if the cost is worth what you gain in all of those other factors Laurie. But I would always work out the budget first.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

That's true Trillian but many women who are "second income earners" may rather be back at work even if it would prove slightly cheaper overall to stay at home. Besides, with promotion etc things can change rapidly and the difference be cancelled out, whereas if the "stay at home" decision has been made that often traps the mother in a lower/no income bracket for life.

Many men still seem to find the concept of "family money" a hard one. In such cases it's far better that both parents are working and paying out for childcare (if the mother wants to work) then that the father is earning and the woman is effectively living on handouts from her H at his own discretion.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

In a very important negotiation last week - bloke said 'I have to go at 3.30 on the dot as I have to take my dd to a ballet exam'

Everyone nodded and smiled.

If I had done that nobody would ever have taken me seriously again.

[TrillianAstra]

X-post I think elephants - do the budget first and then decide if staying at home is worth the loss of the £400 a month you would earn above childcare, or if you would rather work even if you only earn 50p a week after childcare is taken out (and remember to think about National Insurance payments etc).

Both partners in a relationship should have the same amount of spending money after shared household costs are taken care of, so the childcare money is not precisely coming out of the woman's wage, but it must be offset against the second income when budgeting.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Ok, I hear you. I'm the complete opposite of that - I don't think about work in terms of financial cost at all.

[HerBeatitude]

Getorfmyland - and I bet he hasn't the faintest idea of the truth of that. He probably thinks we're all equal now.