"We Just Put the Biggest Crack in That Glass Ceiling"

[YonicProbe]

That's how Hillary Clinton described being the first woman to win nomination as a Presidential candidate.

Whatever result we wake up to tomorrow, whatever our views of the candidates, I am very pleased that a woman is in this race for the first time.

[scallopsrgreat]

I agree Yonic.

[Xenophile]

Agreed, but if cheeto face wins, I want to move to the moon.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

It's still only a crack. Look at the superb Obama. My kids stayed up all night back in 2008 to see history in the making: first black POTUS. But his presidency didn't do anything to reduce racism in the USA, if anything it hardened attitudes.

[0phelia]

Nope. Not pleased.
Sanders is more feminist than this crook. This is a woman who accepts billions from the Saudi's (who stone women to death if they are raped) and backs their regime, and allowed her own husband to abuse women without calling him out because she is more interested in her own power and status. She is patriarch compliant at they get.

But she is unfortunately better than Trump The Cunt.

[YonicProbe]

0phelia

, I think we don't have equality unless female candidates have just as much scope to be flawed as male candidates. Sarah Palin was a very flawed VP candidate but so have men been in the past; it's still a step forward.

[DeviTheGaelet]

I agree and I hope she wins. Will be very happy if she does.
0phelia I had an argument with DH about that very thing this morning. I feel like she is held to a higher standard than a man, because she's a woman. She isn't responsible for her DHs roving cock. And lots of people do personal and government business with the Saudis without an expectation hat they shouldn't.

[0phelia]

I would expect Obama to not have personal "relations" with the Saudis (he doesn't) and I would expect Sanders to not have a personal financially beneficial relationships with the Saudis (he doesn't). Clinton does, and I'm not holding her to a higher standard just because she is a woman. I hate Tony Blair for all of the same reasons too. They are crooks and liars.

If Theresa May had affairs and her husband stood by her I'd think he was a tool. If Thatcher had opened her legs for all and sundry, with a husband knowing but not caring I'd consider him missing a rather important moral standard necessary to be prime minister or president.

[YonicProbe]

A spouse of to someone who has affair(s) is not in themselves immoral!

[0phelia]

It's the sticking by them despite knowing, to further your own carreer that is.

[YonicProbe]

Why?

People are allowed to divorce for any reason or none. Let's say Bill constantly insults Hillary's ankles. She would divorce him for it but knows it would end her political career (which is patriarchical in itself, but hey). She decides career happiness means more to her than marital happiness, sleeps in a separate bedroom and gets on with life, family and friends.

Is that immoral?

[StatisticallyChallenged]

There are some pretty big assumptions about morality in that sentence 0phelia. It's not immoral to stay with a spouse who has affairs, it really isn't. It could be if the decision was made for a particularly immoral reason e.g. their parent is about to die and I'm waiting for the inheritence first. But actually, plenty of people stay with a cheating spouse because it's the decision which will have the smallest adverse impact on them. I don't think "if I leave I will not be able to continue my career" is an immoral reason, it's one many women probably make although more often because it could be difficult to sustain their career as a single parent. Thankfully there aren't that many careers now where someone would be held back for getting divorced - but politics is one.

In terms of their marriage the person sleeping with others might not even be behaving immorally. Who knows what the arrangements are between Bill and Hill, or any other couple for that matter. Maybe they have long since agreed to bonk other people so long as it doesn't cause trouble (Bill failed that one!)

[DeviTheGaelet]

It's the sticking by them despite knowing, to further your own carreer that is.
However do you know she stuck by him to further her career? Loads of people stay with cheating spouses, often because they love them.

[MakeItStopNeville]

Their marriage and its practicalities are really none of our business.

[YonicProbe]

Indeed, Neville.

Soooo, polls are looking better for Hillary than Donald but I'm still scared to go to sleep!

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Me too. Keep wavering between staying up all night in a state of high arousal and I can remember when that was fun., staying up all night researching Paris Lees or going to bed with cocoa, a grim determination and a good book. At the moment the cocoa seems to be winning. My kids* have promised to wake me up to give me the result. But I'm soooo jittery!

• Don't worry about the kids. I've promised to let them off nursery tomorrow.

[YonicProbe]

"* Don't worry about the kids. I've promised to let them off nursery tomorrow."

[DeviTheGaelet]

OMFG have I woken up in a nightmare?

[Bowednotbroken]

Doesn't this mean that basically men can treat women however they like - and it's OK to do so. In fact, it makes you more electable if you're a misogynist abusive bully?!

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

What this result says about America is terrifying. I find myself Godwinning all over the place. I can only hope my fears are unfounded.

One of my DCs woke me in the night to tell me. He was totally freaked out. I'm glad I didn't stay up to watch it. Poor DS found it harrowing though, as he says, it's history. I thought "holy shit" and went back to sleep. Nothing I can do about it. Apart from quake in my boots.

[scallopsrgreat]

Hillary has been held to a much higher standard than men. I saw a tweet saying the it isn't that the US don't want a woman in the White House its that they want a better woman (paraphrasing). I'm sure you do. What exactly constitutes 'better'? How perfect does a woman have to be?

Trouble is that line will move no matter which woman becomes a presidential candidate. There will be no perfect candidate. There will just be a higher standard to meet. A right wing woman will have more chance - just like in the UK. Because they've already sided with the patriarchy. They aren't seen as too much of a threat.

This is very similar to perfect rape victims. Similar to why women have to fight for their rights - if only you were a little more like x, y, z. If only you asked more nicely. If only you were men. In fact if only you were men who self-confessed to sexually assaulting women and was up on a charge of child rape.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

You're right, scallops. The goalpost will always move.

"of course we want a woman. Just not that woman. No, not that one either. Nope, still not that woman, try again?" ad infinitum. There is no woman "good enough".

[YonicProbe]

"I saw a tweet saying the it isn't that the US don't want a woman in the White House its that they want a better woman"

And until the perfect woman comes along, any man, however flawed, is better, I assume.

Gah.

[VestalVirgin]

What exactly constitutes 'better'?

Obviously not "better than Trump", because, really, my three year old niece would be better than Trump.