So im transphobic for saying someone with a penis is biologically male

[LoveMyPatio]

waves to the person on fb who messaged me.

I honestly honestly don't get it. I am a big supporter of trans rights, using their chosen gender toilets etc (which I know some people understandably have a problem with). I am really not transphobic.

And it's also transphobic to say that choosing to transition us a choice.

Please, can I have a sensible explanation of why I'm transphobic because I honestly don't get it.

[FloraFox]

Current trans dogma requires you to believe that a person who "identifies" as female is female. This means that person has a female body even if that body has a penis, gonads etc. Therefore the penis is biologically female if it is on a female body (i.e. the body of a person who "identifies" as female). Any other view is transphobic.

It follows that:

• any person is female if they identify as female, even if they take no steps to transition or even if they grow a full beard. Any other view is transphobic.
  
• if a child says they identify as the other sex, this must be fully accepted and the child should be transitioned. Any attempt to counsel the child to accept themselves as a gender non-conforming and possibly lesbian / gay child is "conversion therapy" and transphobic.
  
• if a woman says she is only attracted to female bodies and is not into penis, that is transphobic bigotry which directly leads to the death of trans people.
  

Your OP is transphobic for asking these questions. Welcome to the new world of progressive liberal thought.

[FlapsTie]

Also, you have just committed actual violence by saying these things. Actual Violence.

[Heathen4Hire]

Beginning to sound like my DM saying, "It wasn't like this in MY day."

I am confused too.

I will stick with biology. If you are biologically a man but choose to dress as a woman, you are transsexual in my eyes, not transgender. If you have had gender reassignment surgery you are transgender. But I think the world has moved on from my assessment.

[AnnaForbes]

I'm beyond caring. If someone wants to call me transphobic, then they can. I don't believe I am, but i do believe women-only safe places need to be upheld and that to me means keeping penises out.

[TheTattoedHand]

No. My partner is trans and I would say that statement is correct. Having a penis does make you BIOLOGICALLY male.

It does not make your gender male.

Hth x

[LoveMyPatio]

It is insane. Actually insane
If someone who is gay chooses to come put then that is a decision to come out. Is it homophobic to say that? And I mean that as a genuine question, not a faux question.

[LoveMyPatio]

TheTattoedHand. Thank you. That's what I thought.and the world should accept that gender.
But apparently saying that (the world accepts blah blah) is also transphobic.

[IzzyIsBusy]

It does not make your gender male.

So what is gender?

My mum wears trousers all the time. No heels no make up and has very short hair. She owns 1 bag which is a canvas shopping one and likes rugby. Does this mean her gender is male?

[LoveMyPatio]

I think I am genderless. I actually prefer being treated as if I was genderless. I hate this obsession with gender - it feeds into stereotypes and sexism.

But I still think you can't deny that you have a biological sex. And apparently that means I am obsessed with trans people genitalia. I'm really not. I dobt care what sex or gender people are.i accept people for who they are. How the hell am I transphobic?!

[IzzyIsBusy]

You are not transphobic OP.
Even surgery cannot change a person from male to female. That is just natural/scientific/biological fact.

[TheTattoedHand]

Have a preference to a tupe of clothibg doesn't reflect your gender, no. Neither does sexuality.

You could could be a very butvh lesbian, only wear mens clothes from mens departments, only be attracted to women and be female. It isn't how you look or what you wear. It is how you feel.

I'm always reluctant to talk about trans issues on mumsnet but I wish I could because I feel I have a lot to offer on the subject but my skin isn't thick enough. I've had my partner called some terrible names and personally attacked. People always assume my partner is a biological male now female when in fact it is the other way round. Some of the 'jokes' made I have found very distressing. It seems to me trans people are the only group it is acceptable to trample on here.

[TheMagicFarawaySleep]

Tattoo - that's really sad that you've encountered meanness towards your DP.

I do think that on MN, most of the trans discussions are in response to trans extremism - you know the "you are killing trans people by saying menstruation is a female issue" types. And discussions around this type if extremism can get heated.

But when it comes down to discussing actual individuals who are trans or have trans DP or family, people are actually not wishing any disrespect to them at all. In fact, I think most people are supportive of individual trans people just trying to go about living their lives.

But because discussions focus on extremism, that might not come across IYSWIM.

[TheMagicFarawaySleep]

Lovemypatio - I don't think what you said was transphobic at all. Or if it is, then I am too

[TheTattoedHand]

But people will be quick to shout 'not all muslims are extremists!'
'Not all black people are thugs!'

Etc... and will come down on anyone who has those ideas. But trans people are talked about in such hurtful, sweeping statements.

My DP is the sweetest person you could ever meet. And has no agenda. He just wants to live his life how he feels comfortable.

[LoveMyPatio]

TattoedHand - that's very sad your partner has had abuse. That really shouldn't happen, but i suppose there are always idiots around, and being a bit different people more vulnerable.

I'm glad people on here don't think I'm being transphobic. I was starting to think I was in denial or something! I was attacked, belittled, and then thrown out of a group for saying the above.

[PoldarksBreeches]

Male and female aren't genders!
tattooedhand your dp's gender identity might be masculine but they are not male, in any sense of the meaning male

[TheMagicFarawaySleep]

Tattoo - so sorry for not saying that not all Trans people are extremists. My mistake. Probably because it genuinely didn't occur to me that anyone would think that all Trans are extremists. I'm so sorry I didn't explain that. Massive apologies for any offence

[TheMagicFarawaySleep]

I mean, extremism must be such a tiny representation of any group, but yet the narrative gets dominated by extremism IYSWIM. I'm really not explaining this well so will shut up!

[OlennasWimple]

OP - I've come to the conclusion that the "that's transphobic" approach is used because it is a very successful way of shutting down discussion with people who are appalled to think of themselves as in any way bigoted. It makes us self-censor for fear of being seen as the sort of person many of us have campaigned against over the years. Even the choice of the suffix "phobic": fear? I'm not afraid of transgender people! And I don't want anyone to think I am, so I must stop saying the things that people tell me are phobic!

Bigots who don't care if they are called transphobic (or racist, or homophobic, or misogynist) won't be put off by this approach, but the rest of us don't want these labels applied.

LoveMy - sorry to hear that your partner has faced abuse

[OlennasWimple]

Tattooed, I meant, sorry!

[0phelia]

Transphobia trumps misogyny right now.

So long as someone claims to be female,
It's best to let male bodied people into women's sports teams (when, being male and all they are stronger and faster than all the other women so the women suffer)
It's best to let male bodied people into women's prisons (when they can get the other women pregnant so the women are at risk or suffer)
It's best to let male people take a prize meant for women such as "Woman of the year" or whatever even through said male has never experienced the life of a woman, only dresses up like one. (So women lose out again)
It's best to allow men to claim having a vagina even though they will never know going through labour, breastfeeding, periods,
On and on.... the whole thing undermines and overwrites a woman's lived existence.

A young girl can't even get her hsir cut short now, without having to "identify as a boy" then turn transgender as an adolescent.

There are more restrictions on us as healthy biological beings as a result of this trans agenda than ever before.

Sorry you've had a PM and kicked out of a fb group on the basis of your common sense.

[YouHadMeAtCake]

AnnaForbes that is how I feel. It's just a load of old hogwash.

I could identify as a bloody panda. It's all utterly ridiculous and if anyone wants to call be transphobic they can crack on.

Penises do not belong in womens spaces. Men are not women and never will be and women are not men and never will be. You cannot change your sex.

[Mishaps]

Blimey! - what a minefield! With all these things, the spirit in which they are said are what matters.

I spent decades working with people with various disabilities (yes, yes, I know that we are not talking about a disability) and they all varied on how they wished to be identified; and it was often not by the PC words that were the current received wisdom. Everyone is an individual and can make their own decisions about what they feel offended or otherwise by.

[BeyondReasonablyDoubts]

I'm with Anna and YouHadMe. Call me transphobic if you want for not believing your religion, look at all the shits I give
#iseeyou

[LoveMyPatio]

So have I just encountered extremism then, or is the above view generally accepted and times have moved on, and I am, indeed, horribly bigoted?
Because as far as I am aware I was attacked and booted by 3 bio cis female mothers... I had no idea that that was the opinion I had to hold to belong to that particular parenting group.