Only trans women have vaginas, women have 'front holes'

(170 Posts)
Triskaidekaphobic Sat 03-Sep-16 04:33:16

That's according to this Guide to safer sex for trans people

VAGINA: We use this word to talk about the genitals of trans women who have had bottom surgery.”

FRONT HOLE: We use this word to talk about internal genitals, sometimes referred to as a vagina. A front hole may self-lubricate, depending on age and hormones.

FFS when is this madness going to end. Trans activists are attempting to appropriate or erase everything about being female.

I will never call my vagina a front hole, it's not a hole and tbh I find it grossly offensive to women to refer to it as such.

WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat Sat 03-Sep-16 05:16:01

I actually read that whole pamphlet with my jaw agape. I'm not sure what to say. I'll need to think about it some more. Wow.

cexuwaleozbu Sat 03-Sep-16 05:32:48

This leaflet was being discussed on another thread and my understanding of it is that the term "front hole" is being used to describe the vaginas of someone who wishes they didn't have a vagina and may or may not be planning to have it surgically removed. It is actively helpful for them not to use the same word as is used for the same biological organ in a woman who is comfortable about their body shape. I do not believe that the leaflet is advocating use of this word in the wider population is it?

HateSummer Sat 03-Sep-16 05:35:28

A front hole is a urethra. And a vagina isn't sometimes referred to as a vagina. It's a bloody vagina. Ffs.

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 05:56:02

This leaflet is aimed at Trans people. It is common for FTM to use front hole. I am assuming you are cisgender? This leaflet is not actually for you, and yes you have a vagina.

Mummyoflittledragon Sat 03-Sep-16 06:02:24

I agree Hate. A front hole is a uretha. I have that and a vagina. Referring to a female (from birth) vagina as a front hole is one step away from a fuck hole. Sounds like language from chauvinistic men. These are after all men, who've sex changed to women so why wouldn't theirs referred to as a front hole?!!

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 06:10:16

No mummy 'front hole' is used by FTM (female to male) ie they were born with a vagina, but they identify as a male. They have not had bottom surgery so they do indeed still have a 'front hole'.

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 03-Sep-16 06:11:52

I know I am not the target audience for this, but it does seem unwise to coyly use inaccurate terms for actual body parts.

Mtt still need prostate checks
Ftt still need smear tests

Supposedly triggering words are a biological reality. I cannot believe someone goes through lots of medical intervention without being able to use correct terms.

Triskaidekaphobic Sat 03-Sep-16 06:17:42

No mummy 'front hole' is used by FTM (female to male) ie they were born with a vagina, but they identify as a male. They have not had bottom surgery so they do indeed still have a 'front hole'.

Trans people might be having sex with a 'cis' woman who is in possession of a vagina. Why is the definition of the word vagina referring to trans women only?

After all, 'dicks' are mentioned as being part of people of 'all genders'. Although it seems from reading it that a clitoris is also a dick. Who knew!

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 06:20:56

But the hole in a cis woman is a vagina. This guide does not have to explain that....

SlinkyVagabond Sat 03-Sep-16 06:34:06

Woman, not cis.

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 06:37:30

I was using that term for clarity, yes women have vaginas. People who identify as transmasculine often use the term 'front hole'.

RJnomore1 Sat 03-Sep-16 06:37:34

But regardless if anything else it's a middle hole surely or are they so ignorant of basic anatomy?

botanically Sat 03-Sep-16 06:39:46

FFS it doesn't even say women don't have vaginas.

You're just deliberately misconstruing it for your own agenda.

botanically Sat 03-Sep-16 06:41:07

"I will never call my vagina a front hole, it's not a hole and tbh I find it grossly offensive to women to refer to it as such."

Then don't. This leaflet is not about you or your vagina. HTH.

LyndaNotLinda Sat 03-Sep-16 06:44:12

This guide is so falling over itself to be politically correct that it's destroying the meaning of words. A clitoris is not a dick.

"Call it my dick, and don’t hesitate when you say it, because that’s how I know what you think and how you feel about what you’re saying. Don’t say cunnilingus, say head. Use the words you would use for any other guy."

But you're not 'any other guy'. You're a woman with a vagina and a clitoris and sex with you is not going to be the same as it is with 'any other guy'.

FFS why are legitimate organisations supporting this level of delusion? It's batshit

Idefix Sat 03-Sep-16 06:48:47

Mmm I am not a ciswoman I am a woman simple as I don't accept people renaming my gender description so that they feel more secure/happy with how they define themselves.

was reading this week that there was a survey conducted that showed that many woman do not know the names of their sexual organs - internal and external, but nearly all knew the terms for male genitals confused. Although I am guessing that the woman who the leaflet is aimed at are perhaps more aware of these organs.

mathanxiety Sat 03-Sep-16 06:48:56

I feel really assaulted by use of the word 'cis'.

I am a woman. I reject the term cis with every single atom of my being. I really think if you want to use it here you should have to ask every single women on every single topic you post on if it's all right with her to put her in a new category that doesn't actually describe her but only describes the relationship of a group of men (i.e. transwomen) to her.

I am also really appalled by the use of the coarse and ugly term 'hole'. It is not a 'hole'.

If someone hasn't had surgery then they have a vagina. It is a vagina no matter what they identify as.

botanically Sat 03-Sep-16 06:50:18

My favourite part of this leaflet:

"Don’t assume that every person you meet—trans or otherwise—will use or understand these words. In most cases, the best thing you can do is ask which words a person uses to describe their body. Remember: Our bodies are our own to name and use."

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 06:53:21

I also hate the term cis, I used it because the OP seemed to be having difficulty with understanding that this leaflet is aimed at trans people and the use of vagina in trans women who have had surgery does not exclude the use of vagina in women. It just doesn't actually need stating.

mathanxiety Sat 03-Sep-16 06:53:24

You're just deliberately misconstruing it for your own agenda.

That is the least self aware criticism I have ever seen from a transactivist or transsupporter.

Deliberate misconstruing, eh? Pray tell what is your problem with that? In your account, be sure to include reference to the construing of men as women for the purpose of access to homeless women's shelters.

mathanxiety Sat 03-Sep-16 06:56:41

Our bodies are our own to name...

No they are not ours to name. Their various parts come with perfectly fine and commonly understood names. Insisting on calling a clitoris a penis is evidence of body dysmorphia, not liberation from dictatorship of the dictionary.

FreshwaterSelkie Sat 03-Sep-16 07:01:03

Using the word "hole" to describe a vagina really says a lot about the internalised misogyny of the person using it. It's not a hole (which is an absence, a gap, a nothing), it is an organ. Using the term "hole" is to embrace the language of misogyny - any hole's a goal, for example. Women are being told that to use the word "vagina" is hateful, and this is another stop along the line for that crazy train. Performances of The Vagina Monologues are being cancelled, or stuff like Martha Plimptom being unable to rally support for the Night of A Thousand Vaginas without the twittersphere exploding.

If' you're a trans man, you may wish you didn't have that organ, but you DO. If you hate it with such a passion, then you need to get help with that. Denying the physical reality gets you nowhere, and it chucks the rest of womankind under the bus. Words MATTER.

RJnomore1 Sat 03-Sep-16 07:04:08

I've never heard the word strapless before. Apparently it's sometimes known as a penis.

FreshwaterSelkie Sat 03-Sep-16 07:05:18

botanically, motherfuckers, you don't see any problem at all with a leaflet that tells women they have front holes and men that they have vaginas? Really? confused

I suppose you think anorexics should have leaflets telling them that being fat really is evil, and we should be careful to tell depressed people that the world is indeed a hateful shitfilled place of torment, if it's so important that people's world view is reinforced to support them?

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