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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trigger Warning Child Death. Title altered by Mumsnet. **Student given life in prison with no parole for dumping her baby.

177 replies

FrameyMcFrame · 28/08/2016 18:51

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/college-student-gave-birth-toilet-8705537
This U.S student has been given life without parole for giving birth and dumping the baby, who subsequently died.
I feel incredibly sorry for her, and angry that men never have to go through this sort of terrible ordeal. In no way do I condone what she did, but I think the way society is set up makes things like this happen. If things were easier for women undergoing unplanned pregnancy and stigmas were removed, tragic things like this just wouldn't happen. Why should this person have to suffer for the rest of her life, she's literally just a kid herself.

OP posts:

Report

OlennasWimple · 28/08/2016 18:56

Whilst I agree that the US has a long way to go to improve access to family planning services it is also relatively simple here to give a baby up for adoption and there is no shortage of people who would have wanted to parent baby Addison.

Emile murdered her baby, and there are consequences to that

IcedVanillaLatte · 28/08/2016 18:59

She's a 21 year old adult woman who killed a baby.

Having said that, she was under pressure and in a situation in which it is known that people sometimes behave in strange ways. But then most killers are.

I believe she shouldn't go to prison for life because I believe that's not an appropriate punishment for everyone who kills and would reserve it for extreme cases or those where there's no remorse or a high risk of recidivism. But in no way is she a child.

FrameyMcFrame · 28/08/2016 19:01

Don't you think that it wouldn't have been that simple for her?
Nobody knew she was pregnant, she was in denial and had no where to turn. She didn't want to be pregnant and couldn't find a way out.

OP posts:

Eminybob · 28/08/2016 19:04

That is a horrifically sad story.

The woman clearly has mental health problems. She needs help and I hope she gets it in prison.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 28/08/2016 19:05

She seems to have no remorse whatsoever so prison for a very long time is the right place to be.

OlennasWimple · 28/08/2016 19:15

But she communicated about the baby to the person she believed to be his father, so she wasn't in complete denial. She has made a big fuck up, and it has cost two people their lives. It's very sad, but I don't know what the alternative is: I don't think it would be acceptable to give her a suspended sentence and send her on her way, for example.

Bumpmadethemjump · 28/08/2016 19:17

I 100% agree with hunter.

Cannonbear · 28/08/2016 19:17

Good. She put a baby in a binbag to die.

HermioneWeasley · 28/08/2016 19:24

The US are making it harder and harder to access abortion, but she had access to contraception and could have given the baby up. She took the decision to kill her baby, which most of us find unthinkable

It does piss me off that there are no repercussions for men in this situation

FrameyMcFrame · 28/08/2016 19:26

I just wish things like this didn't happen. Women have to manage their fertility alone and with very little support from the state in many places. Tragedies like this will always happen if we continue as a society in the way we are going.
If women and men could get pregnant equally I'm sure we'd have robust systems to deal with fertility planning.

OP posts:

Caipora · 28/08/2016 19:26

Ohio doesn't have such strict abortion laws as other states. Up to 20 weeks and after with sufficient need. Adoption, morning after pills and contraception were all available to her. She chose to discard a baby in a binbag. She was 21 not 12.

Honeyandfizz · 28/08/2016 19:27

Having just read the article I'm afraid I'm struggling to find any sympathy for her. Denial is one thing but murdering your own baby is another. Her sentence seems appropriate imo, her poor child never stood a chance.

bigkidsdidit · 28/08/2016 19:31

She's not literally a kid herself, she's a grown woman.

I know what you're saying re abortion not being easy, but she killed a baby in a binbag!

I agree about life no parole btw - I dont think this is ever right.

bekindtome · 28/08/2016 19:33

I maybe wrong but doesn't America have a law that you can drop your baby off at a save place ie hospital/fire station with no repercussions.

bigkidsdidit · 28/08/2016 19:35

And she wasn't in denial - she sent a text to the father saying 'no more baby'

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/08/2016 19:37

The sentence seems draconian but US courts generally hand out sentences which seem harsh compared to those of European courts.

It's difficult to see how she did not know she was pregnant; she had a positive pregnancy test and seems to have taken to wearing concealing clothes.

Abortion is difficult, but not impossible in Ohio , although after 20 weeks would be unlikely to be permitted other than in exceptional cases.

She was on a campus and young women on a university campus probably have better access to advice on pregnancy, contraception etc than those not on a campus.

She got through the whole pregnancy and having got that far it's difficult to see why she did not take advantage of the fact the baby could be passed to a hospital on a no questions asked basis.

It's not really correct is it that there was nowhere to turn to? The campus had a welfare centre which she used. Universities provide pastoral care for students.

I accept she probably has mental health issues but to say she didn't know she was pregnant, had no one to turn to, didn't want to be pregnant and had no way out is a bit of an exageration.

FrameyMcFrame · 28/08/2016 19:39

Well I still feel sympathy for her. I can't imagine what she went through and why she was unable to help herself.
I'm pretty sure she didn't get pregnant and plan to kill the baby on purpose.

OP posts:

FrameyMcFrame · 28/08/2016 19:40

Well I still feel sympathy for her. I can't imagine what she went through and why she was unable to help herself.
I'm pretty sure she didn't get pregnant and plan to kill the baby on purpose.

OP posts:

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/08/2016 19:43

I just wish things like this didn't happen. Women have to manage their fertility alone and with very little support from the state in many places

In early September 2014, Emile had visited the university’s wellness centre for birth control. As standard, she had to take a pregnancy test. It came back positive but Emile didn’t respond to phone calls, text messages or a letter they sent out. She carried on as normal.

eddiemairswife · 28/08/2016 19:45

Will that sentence stand? It seems extremely harsh. I know she killed the baby, but she must have been in turmoil, and will need counselling and help.

mushroomsontoast · 28/08/2016 19:48

It's an incredibly sad case. She was clearly in denial and delusional, she didn't make much attempt to cover it up after all, given that she didn't clean up the bathroom. I'm sure she didn't go through the pregnancy thinking "I'm pregnant but it's alright I'll just give birth and kill the baby". They are not the actions of a rational person.

lougle · 28/08/2016 19:49

When I did my degree in Social Studies we are taught that society frames people as either 'mad' 'sad' or 'bad'. That's why we're arguing over this, isn't it? The court have decided that she was 'bad'. Some people can't cope with thinking that there are individuals who appear normal, yet can be bad enough to do such a horrific thing as throwing a healthy baby in a bin liner, so their only comfort is to view her as 'mad' - that she must in some way be mentally unwell, because mentally well people wouldn't do this. The OP has framed her as 'sad' - that she was stuck in a terrible situation. That she was all out of choices.

She had choices. All of the choices involved acknowledging that she was pregnant and taking action, but they were choices. Even after giving birth she could have chosen to drop the baby off at a safe haven. Instead she chose to dispose of the baby. In a sense, she may have been distressed as she didn't cover her tracks well, but she did murder her daughter.

SenecaFalls · 28/08/2016 19:49

I maybe wrong but doesn't America have a law that you can drop your baby off at a save place ie hospital/fire station with no repercussions.

These are called Safe Haven laws and it depends on the state. Ohio has a Safe Haven law.

MaudlinNamechange · 28/08/2016 19:53

I get that she caused her baby's death so I don't really agree with the OP.

However, I do find this worrying.

"It was a tough sentence which the judge said reflected her lack of remorse.

"You tried over and over to take that baby’s life," he said, referring to her reckless behaviour while pregnant. "

If this is how the state view foetuses, and women who are pregnant - that foetuses are babies and that careless behaviour by pregnant women (or deliberate abortion) is the same as killing a baby - then I can see how a person can feel they have nowhere to turn. To my mind, putting a live baby in a binbag is completely different from choosing not to continue with a pregnancy. Not for that judge, apparently, roping that into her sentencing.

SenecaFalls · 28/08/2016 19:54

A quick google tells me that all states now have a Safe Haven law. Texas was the first to enact one. That's a surprise.

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