Transgender Toilets

[Clonakiltylil]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609515/Transgender-woman-wins-landmark-discrimination-case-forcing-ferry-firm-remove-words-ladies-gents-toilets-told-use-disabled-loo.html

And so it begins: litigation regarding toilets.

Here's part of it:

A transgender woman has won a landmark discrimination case forcing a ferry company to remove the words 'ladies' and 'gentlemen' from its toilets.

Condor Ferries has become the first firm to change the gender specific signs on the doors after Erin Bisson proved she was 'humiliated' at being told to use the disabled toilets.

Ms Bisson, formerly known as Robert until she identified herself as a woman, complained to the Jersey Employment and Discrimination Tribunal that she had been discriminated against after the operator banned her from using the 'ladies'.

She argued the use of words rather than symbols on toilets amounted to indirect discrimination.

[VestalVirgin]

So, now women will accidentally walk into the men's room and see them stand there with their dicks in hand?

How ... nice.

What an asshole.

Also, perfectly illustrates how transgender reinforces gender roles - the "symbols" on the doors are usually very stereotypical. You never see more women in dresses than on the toilet doors.

I'd put symbols on there of which one is an uterus and another shows the inside of testicles. (No idea what the latter looks like, but hey, it would be educational!)

[howtorebuild]

There are a few of these articles in the DM tonight. Why are there no trans toilets?

[RufusTheReindeer]

Just read this

I honestly don't get it

What symbols? a stick figure in trousers and one in a skirt? How does that actually make a difference?

Plus if i took that literally i would always be in the gents

[RufusTheReindeer]

Oooh sorry vestal didnt see that you said the same thing first

[VestalVirgin]

No problem, Rufus, I dont have copyright on it!

The stick figure in a skirt makes a difference in that it could be a man in a skirt. So, the stick figure thing actually tells you to use the toilet according to your gender, not your sex.

I suppose the transgenderists want you to take it literally and always go to the gents.
You wearing trousers obviously means that you are a closeted transman /sarcasm.

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

Let's go the whole hog - pink sparkly butterfly fairies on one, and primary colour, stripy dinosaurs on tractors on the other. Then everyone would Know Their Place.

[VestalVirgin]

Why are there no trans toilets?

Trans don't want to use them, because there'd only be other trans in there.

And that's one of the reasons why I believe most alleged "transwomen" are actually just autogynephiles, and there may even be some dudes who just want access to women's spaces. (No doubt there will be masses of opportunistic men using the transpropaganda to molest women in the restroom without even claming transidentity full-time)

If they'd just want to get away from gender-role-enforcing aggressive men, they'd be happy to use whatever alternative is offered, including the disabled loo.

[Dervel]

Oh for fucks sake. It's humiliating to be disabled?? Why is that exactly? Are trans people somehow inherently superior to the disabled? All the disabled people reading this persons comments unchallenged can be in no doubt they aren't trendy enough like the trans community to be considered fully non-shameful human beings...

[sashh]

Why are there no trans toilets?

Newcastle-under-Lyme College has one of its disabled toilets designated as transgender as well as disabled.

[RufusTheReindeer]

I just get confused with the male and female symbol, one looks like it has a willy doesnt it

And i want the dinosaur toilet!!!!!!

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

Why not have the toilets as XX and XY?

[howtorebuild]

Will this judgment mean schools can't use a loo designated for unisex or disabled, as suitable for trans students and have to change words for symbols? What about the needs of other students?

[VestalVirgin]

@Dervel:

Are trans people somehow inherently superior to the disabled?

Trans "women" are somehow superior to actual women, so yeah, I bet they are also superior to disabled people. And trans-disabled, when they get recognized as official oppressed class (might happen, the world has gone crazy) will of course be inherently superior to the actually disabled ... but might deign to use the disabled loo.

@deydodo:

That's transphobic, because it's about sex, not gender. So, this excellent idea will have the same fate as my idea to put a picture of a cute uterus on the door - it will not ever be implemented.


What about the needs of other students?

The needs of female students will be ignored as usual. Perhaps the needs of male students to not be seen by girls with their dicks in hand will be respected in that only the women's loos will be opened to everyone.

[HamaTime]

Why not have the toilets as XX and XY?

There is an incredible amount of bullshit written about MTT being biological women if they say they are and you can't tell that someone someone is XY just by their cock and balls.

I agree with Vestal Trans toilets aren't a solution for someone who wants to use the womens toilets as a validation booth rather than a place to piss.

[GreenTomatoJam]

I saw on some infographic or other what I thought was a cool, succinct logo - it was a normal 'bod' (you know the blobby 'person' logo - sans skirt) with either two circles next to each other in the lower body, or two separated circles - ie. Testes or Ovaries.

I thought that was a neat way of having a symbol based on sex rather than gender stereotypes.

[GreenTomatoJam]

Don't get me started on how most people don't know their chromosomes. Actually, for the vast majority of people it's very clear.

And for any woman who's had children, it's completely clear.

[VestalVirgin]

Don't get me started on how most people don't know their chromosomes. Actually, for the vast majority of people it's very clear.

Yes, abnormalities in this, like XXY or XXX or just X are usually obvious pretty early on.
And when menstruation starts or doesn't start, you'd find out anyway.

If you have a dick, you have an Y - walking around claiming that you don't know your chromosomes is pretty stupid.

Perhaps just X and Y would be more clear. Whether a woman has one X more or less isn't really such a big deal.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I though providing a unisex toilet along with male and female would be the answer

But it's not is it because trans women want to be accepted as women while far too many are trampling over women's feelings and ignoring our fears and what we feel is right for us

I don't want to share toilets with trans women I do not need to explain why (list is too long and it's been said so many times before) I just don't but my voice is not as powerful as a mans and I know that from experience one they will never ever share

[howtorebuild]

The answer is for a pro bono test case by women who don't want to share.

[thedogstinks]

What I don't get is how supposedly superior, critical thinkers (like, judges) can make these stupid decisions.

[HermioneWeasley]

Solution

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

Not a solution, Hermione, because as Hama and others have said, they want to access the single sex toilets.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Yes they do

Shame they don't take on what often is seen as a more of a female trait and that is to be more understanding to how others feel but then they haven't been conditioned to be that way have they

[howtorebuild]

That's not always true, as with any group of people it's the extreme end behaving with a lack of empathy towards others. I am sure some in the trans community are not impressed.

[howtorebuild]

Actually it may do good, to work with the trans community who simply want somewhere safe to use the loo, rather than erode safe spaces and the dignity of others.