equal pay

[crappymummy]

This is a thread where I would like to discuss equal pay, for women who are not global superstars, who do not sit on a Board, and are not in the running to head the North American division of their companies.

in my own work, I have not progressed up the pay scale because of taking a maternity leave- my ML came at the end of the year, and only affected one month of that year, but because of that, my employers would not allow me to use any of my work from that year to support a move up the pay scale.

In my current job, pay is incredibly opaque and I have no idea how my pay compares to that of others.

I kind of think that pay transparency would be a good step towards equity- when everyone knows what everyone makes it is harder to justify discrepancies.

What do others think? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

[crappymummy]

what else in addition to pay transparency might help?

the only time I was ever paid exactly the same as colleagues for the same work was when I worked in minimum wage jobs

As my job descriptions became more nebulous, maybe it got easier to not pay me for equal work?

[crappymummy]

would creating lists of criteria for pay grades help? is this feasible?

[crappymummy]

Maybe I have posted this thread in the wrong place

[SpeakNoWords]

The new rules on pay transparency will only apply to businesses with more than 250 employees, so it won't directly benefit the many people employed by smaller companies, sadly. Perhaps there will be a knock on effect though, as women realise what men are getting paid in similar roles in different companies, and demand more pay.

[MrNoseybonk]

If your pay scales are very opaque, how do you know you're not being paid for your equal work?
I don't know what any of my coworkers are paid, it's very frustrating.

[crappymummy]

I didn't even know there were new rules on pay transparency coming into force

do you know if the 250 includes all people at work for a company, or if they have to be doing the same work, eg would a company with 250 people who include sales, marketing, HR, cleaners, accountants still be bound by these laws

[Lweji]

I'd like to share this with you, in case someone has missed it.

2016 ANNUAL LETTER
MORE TIME
by Melinda
www.gatesnotes.com/2016-Annual-Letter#ALChapter3

In addition, I think pay transparency would benefit women, as well as having clear guidelines on pay rises and career progression within organisations.
In state based jobs differences tend to be smaller because of such regulations, if I'm not mistaken.

[crappymummy]

I am assuming I am not paid equally, as that is the general trend for women in work

You are right though, I have no idea if I am, or even where exactly I am on our pay scale

[treaclesoda]

I think pay transparency would be a huge step in the right direction.

[crappymummy]

Lweji, I am trying not to read your post as a 'shut up, at least you are being paid, and other women have it worse'

I am a woman who also does a lot of unpaid work too- should I put off caring about equal pay until that is resolved?

[Lweji]

WTF?
How do you read that in my post????

[SpeakNoWords]

As far as I understand it, it will be total employees of 250 or more. The rules apply from 2018.

Does your current company have pay scales/grades?

[crappymummy]

It does, but these aren't posted anywhere. I would have to ask, and this seems taboo

this is the other thing, it feels like a battle I have to fight myself, and every other woman for herself too- atomised in this way it seems a lot harder to make lasting change

I wonder what proportion of companies employ more than 250 people, the cynic in me says this figure was chosen as it will leave most pay practices intact

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

I think the main issue with equal pay is not so much the discrepancy in the per hourly rate (many doubt there is one) but the subtle and not so subtle ways in which girls are steered towards careers that are less lucrative.

And the having children thing. Obviously.

[crappymummy]

we aren't all going to be CEOs though, or head of marketing in Asia

it would be great for those of us who are in less stellar jobs to be paid equitably

[SpeakNoWords]

If you have a HR dept, I would just ask them under the guise of doing some longer term financial planning or something similar.

I agree Theydontknow, those elements are very important to address also.

[Lweji]

I suppose we could ask our own colleagues. If they are not sexist pigs they should be happy to share how much they earn for the same work.

I hope this is not misinterpreted

[Kidnapped]

Are you in a union, OP?

Could be worth getting them to ask HR if you feel it would be uncomfortable to ask.

[crappymummy]

I have never in my life had a conversation about people's earnings either one I started or one started with me

It does not seem to be the custom in this country, it feels very taboo and personal

I would also question putting the onus on me to ensure I am being paid fairly, I think this is problematic but I can't put my finger on exactly why sorry

[crappymummy]

as though all I have to do is just ask my colleagues, and if they aren't sexist pigs, they'll tell me, and then job done, equality achieved

[SpeakNoWords]

It depends on the industry possibly. When I was a teacher, the pay scales were widely known, and I knew exactly what each of my closest colleagues were on. We would sometimes compare payslips, if one person felt a mistake had been made. In my current industry it is less clear cut, and I have no idea how much my colleagues get paid.

[crappymummy]

ok, fair enough. If I'm underpaid, it's my lookout, and for me to sort. not a concern for feminism then?

[Lweji]

I recommend some chamomile tea, or some sleep...

Anyway...

the problem is figuring out if each of us are getting fair/equal pay or not. Statistics suggest it has been getting better in the UK
"The gender pay gap for median earnings of full-time employees decreased to 9.4 per cent, from 9.6 per cent in 2014. This is the lowest since the survey began in 1997, although the gap has changed relatively little over the last 4 years." www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/

As I mentioned before, the public sector seems to fare worse
"The gender pay gap for full-time employees in the private sector decreased from 17.6 per cent in 2014 to 17.2 per cent in 2015, the lowest since the series began in 1997 and continuing the long-term downward trend. However, the gender pay gap in the public sector increased for the second consecutive year from 11.0 per cent to 11.4 per cent."

I wonder what it will take to bridge those final 10%.

It's interesting how the pay gap evolves along the employees' career.
"When looking at the differences for full-time employees, the gap is relatively small up to and including those aged 30 to 39 (with the exception of the 16 to 17 age group). In the 22 to 29 age group, women are paid on average slightly more than men. From 40 upwards, the gap is much wider, with men being paid substantially more on average than women."

Could it be an effect of child bearing and rearing, with more women working PT and thus attracting lower salaries because they may not be on a "career path", or an historical effect?