These women have no idea what feminism is really about, do they?

[Cerseirys]

I'm not sure why the Indy felt the need to go down this route for IWD. Some of these women sound like MRAs

www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-women-s-day-2016-we-spoke-to-the-women-who-won-t-be-celebrating-a6917506.html

[PalmerViolet]

Some women are MREs. Good luck to them. The man cookies must be mighty tasty. However, the first woman's piece is outright dangerous. Although I have no doubt that a couple of permatrolls will revel in it. Good luck to them too.

[sportinguista]

What are MREs? For the uninitiated?

[Cerseirys]

A typo for MRAs?

[OurBlanche]

And MRAs are...?

[MephistophelesApprentice]

MREs - Meals Ready to Eat, the American military rations.
MRAs - Mens Rights Activists.

[OurBlanche]

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

International Women's Day. The perfect opportunity to attack, blame and patronise women. Thanks, Indie

[MephistophelesApprentice]

The perfect opportunity to attack, blame and patronise women.

I didn't see any of the people interviewed attacking, blaming or patronising women. How do you feel they did so?

[sportinguista]

Ah, thanks for that. Why do some people feel feminism is such a dirty word. I consider myself a feminist - because I am a woman and I believe in myself, my rights, self respect etc and those of other women, nothing too bad in that?

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

Christ, those women.

My dd is 14 and has more self-awareness than all those women put together.

I'm actually embarrassed for them.

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

Lies about rape. Being responsible for rape by discouraging victims from coming forward and thereby convicting perpetrators. Wanting supremacy rather than equality. Not caring about men z . Being responsible for divorce rates. Not caring about poor women.

You think that's positive, Meph?

[coffeetasteslikeshit]

There was a woman on The Daily Politics today from some Conservative Women's thing and she was just as bad. I was just cringing for her.

[SenecaFalls]

Ticks a lot of the boxes. A feminist once did a bad thing, therefore I am not a feminist. Tick. What about the menz. Tick. What about the genuinely oppressed. Tick. I'm all right, Jill. Tick.

[MephistophelesApprentice]

I think that's criticism against an ideology rather than a gender, Elisaveta; as the article indicates, it would be erroneous to claim that feminism is synonymous with women.

[SpeakNoWords]

What a horrible article to put together for IWD. I don't get what the point of it is. Plus publishing those opinions on rape conviction rates is irresponsible surely? Where is the evidence that 50% of rape charges result in conviction? I'd like to know where that stat comes from.

[MephistophelesApprentice]

The statistic apparently comes from the Stern Report:

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/mar/15/stern-review-rape-less-focus-convictions

[SpeakNoWords]

What is written in the Independent article is not entirely correct though. The Stern report says that of those cases that make it to court, 58% result in some kind of conviction, either for rape or a lesser crime such as sexual assault. "Successful rape convictions" implies that all those 58% of convictions are for rape, rather than a lesser crime. It also ignores the fact that many cases don't make it court.

For me, the label "egalitarian" hides the issues that affect those that are discriminated against, and also places undue attention onto men's "rights", as if they need equal attention to the rights of women or other groups that are discriminated against.

[OurBlanche]

But in general the Stern report asks that we, society, newspapers, politicians, stop scaring women with the worst case statistics that are not proven by the basic statistics. It asks that, instead of perpetually bemoaning it, repeating the 'fact' that very few rape cases get a conviction we look at the 'fact' that the conviction statistics for sexual assault and rape are about on par with many other crimes.

Then we can, instead, reassure women that their statements will not simply be dismissed, we can build on what we have achieved and continue to make positive changes, in both the law and societal perceptions of rape.

Basically, stop wallowing in what is evidently unacceptable and start doing something positive to make greater changes.

[quencher]

Where do I start with this. When I see women who don't identify as feminist it always makes me wonder whether they understand what it means to be a feminist. The same goes to critics of those who call themselves feminist and are attacked for having feminist views. Well, because one or two things offends them and does not a line with their way of thinking. Forgetting that what they fought and still fighting for is freedom for women to do what ever they like with no restriction of male standards, constraints and Inhibition
I know that identify myself as a womanist under the feminist umbrella. Feminism comes first and that is nothing to be ashamed of.

I do think that the woman calling her self egalitarian understands what is means to be fair. Feminist are fighting for that fairness. For that equal rights between the sexes.

I could easily call myself egalitarian when talking to another feminist who understands that I am a feminist. This is because what I would be fighting for is fairness within feminism between the different races regarding feminist ideology. The cause is still the same. Women's rights.

[itllallbefine]

i actually think it would helpful, and I'm not being goady, if the responses stuck to the inaccuracies in what the women were saying rather than saying they are stupid.

I think the problem is that feminism has become so broad that people look at the most public feminists, if they disagree with anything those people say, they will say aha, feminism is crap.

I don't know how you solve this problem, the movement is already fractured into radical, third wave, i don't even know what else, no one owns the word or gets to define exactly what it means so it seems a bit daft to say "I'm against feminism because someone calling themselves a feminist once said X" unless you think that X represents the commonly held opinion of all feminists.

[SpeakNoWords]

I find it depressing to consider the negative attitudes to feminism, and the bile that is spewed online (such as in the comments of these kinds of articles, and on other discussion fora) about feminists and women generally. I don't know what can be done about it. I'm considerably less optimistic about the future of women in the world, compared to when I was in my late teens and twenties.

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

Meph - feminists are women. The article attacks feminism.

[MephistophelesApprentice]

But not all feminists are women, and not all women feminists. Do you think the women in the article would feel attacked if someone criticises feminism? Or the ones who hold beliefs comparable to feminism, but do not feel comfortable accepting the label?

I believe it's entirely appropriate for people to criticise ideologies they do not agree with.

[MrsJamin]

It's the 17 year old which has the most depressing attitude... she doesn't even know what feminism is!

[EElisavetaOfBelsornia]

Feminists are women. Some men are feminist allies. Not all women are feminists, but that's irrelevant. The article attacks feminism, on WOMEN'S day. It's shit.