Just when you thought it was 2015….

[grimbletart]

//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11914966/Annabel-Karmel-women-are-simply-not-as-good-as-men-at-some-jobs.html

Some woman comes along to feed into the stereotype and tell us girlies what wusses some of us are and how we should keep out of some jobs because men are so much better after all.

Why do some women seem so keen to piss on their own sex?

Her talk at the Cheltenham Literature Festival was purported to encourage women in business, but in fact says you may only succeed as long as you stick to the fluffy stuff i.e. woman, know your limitations - don't get involved in something where some men might upset you as you may not be able to cope. No coincidence then her success came in food and nutrition.

DFOD

[squidzin]

Argh! And the dreaded "Mumpreneur". I cringe whenever I see that.
Like, if you're a mum you can't be a proper entrepreneur.

All kinds of wrong.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

Blah. Disappointing. And contradictory.

First she says: "I see a lot of women in business who try to be like a man and become aggressive, and I don't think that is good for women and women aren't suited for that", and then later "If men show a leadership quality and they're quite bossy, that's leadership," she said of the obstacles facing women. "For a woman that becomes [interpreted as] aggression".

Yes, interpreted as aggression by, erm, YOU.

I'm boggled that she's managed to get as far as she has done if she thinks like this about herself. Or is she the exception?

I know loads of women who fight and fight and fight and never give in career wise and in other spheres. No, they sometimes (often?) don't get as far as they could and should, but the reason for that is not that they shrug their poor little overburdened girly shoulders and give up, the reason is the massive structural inequality that we face and just how fucking TIRING and DIFFICULT it is to overcome! Argh!

[tribpot]

Surely if you are going to use the appalling term 'Mumpreneur' you should use it in its 'correct' form, Mumpreneuse? I mean it is quite hard to be a male Mumpreneur I am thinking. However, as the word is beyond stupid it barely matters.

What a bizarre article. I would like to imagine she has been edited to make it clickbait - we all know nothing gets page hits better than an article where a woman takes a swing at feminism. The MRAs can come on and comment approvingly about Ms Karmel understands that women should know their place and everyone else can write about how shockingly stupid the article is. Everyone's a winner.

I am very sad that she told her daughter not to pursue a career in oil and gas trading if that's what she wanted to do. No doubt she would have given the opposite, and equally limiting advice, to her son if he had wanted to pursue a traditionally female occupation.

Not quite on a par with JK Rowling's famous commencement address on the value of failure, is it?

[shovetheholly]

I agree, it sounds all over the place and very self-contradictory. Unless she's been massively misquoted by the reporter (always possible) the problem is, she's half seeing that gender roles are cultural, and half still thinking they are natural.

[shovetheholly]

Riffing on that theme at a personal level - not really related to the article any more - I sometimes think that women from 1990s onwards are in a strange interstitial place. We're still burdened with a set of expectations about what women can and can't do (thinking of the SAS thread) which have inevitably shaped our horizons - yet we know these to be untrue and in all kinds of ways we are pushing those limits ourselves and watching (and cheering) while other women demolish them. I sometimes feel tremendous optimism and possibility alongside a sense of tremendous loss and anger - all at the same time.

[EBearhug]

I know plenty of men who are over-sensitive and can't take criticism. Quite often they're (crap) managers.

Nearly everyone has times when they don't feel confident - most learn not to show it, that's all. A lot of getting on in business is about putting yourself outside your comfort zone. It's nothing to do with being male or female, just being human. It's the ones who never lack confidence who are likely to have misplaced confidence and not actually be half as good as they think they are. The rest will usually do okay, because they're going to take steps to make sure they are less likely to screw up. Women don't always want to be liked, either. There are plenty of women who realise that if you're in any sort of position of power, be it small team lead or multinational CEO, then it means you're not going to be universally liked, however fair you may be.

I would really like her daughter to be able to have a shot at being an oil and gas trader.

[wol1968]

This article has just confirmed my dislike of Annabel Karmel and everything she stands for. Over-manicured overdressed overprivileged prig with her fussy little recipes that take about a week of fiddling, and her smug unawareness of the sheer drudgery and slave labour that is most working mothers' lives. Does she think we're all 'lucky' enough to be able to shield our sensitive souls in congenial families and cosy little part-time jobs? She needs to wake the fuck up and realise that we can and do deal with tough, challenging situations every minute of our lives. Try dealing with rude customers at a supermarket, or kicking everybody out the pub at closing time, or calming down a psychotic patient on the mental health ward. Nice fluffy feminine work, isn't it?

Annabel Karmel needs a good strong dose of life on a care assistant's wage and hours while looking after a family, then she can lecture us on what women are good at.