Wifework and men being ill.

[SmashingTurnips]

As you might have guessed from the title, my DH is unwell. He is normally an ok sort of bloke but being unwell seems to have brought out the entitled male side of him and I wanted to write about it here as it just occurred to me that there is a wifework element to our situation. I would like to explore it here in order to get my head around it. The basic elements are as follows;

1. An unpleasant way of speaking to me and the kids. I understand he is in pain but I'm not sure I would take the same tone in his position.
   

1. An expectation that I am available for his sickness. Of course I am going to bring him food and medicine and be sympathetic but I don't want to hear details / be expected to listen to a running commentary. Nor can I rearrange my work hours to accommodate his illness.
   

1. I don't doubt he is in a great deal of pain (doctor thinks trapped nerve) but from the way he is acting I swing from irritation to genuine worry that there is something really serious going on. DH has moments of being convinced that he has a tumour and is going to be paralysed - I find this attitude equally exhausting, irritating and worrying.
   

He ended up going to hospital yesterday and whilst I think that is the best place for him if the pain is as bad as he tells me, I admit that the break/peace last night was welcome.

I feel mean for saying these things because I can see that he is in a lot of pain and distress. The above has got my back up though because it feels like I'm expected to do more than act like a supportive kind partner. I feel like I'm expected to act like a wife IYSWIM?

Thanks for reading.

[shovetheholly]

I read an interesting distinction recently between "caring" and "servicing". The author was suggesting that "care" is something that absolutely has to be done, and that the person can't do for themselves - and everything else is 'servicing'. The point being to distinguish between, say, caring for a sick three year old who cannot look after themselves and making a dinner for your husband, who can do it himself (in spite of protestations of convenient incompetence by some men).

While I think it's a bit simplistic, practically speaking, it's quite a good rule of thumb. By the sounds of things, your DH does have some places right now where he needs "care" but they aren't as all-encompassing as he suggests, and some of it is an (unfair and unreasonable) demand for attention and 'service'.

Just putting that out there in case it helps. Poor you, though. You must be run off your feet, and it isn't easy looking after an entire household singlehandedly.

It does sound as though his pain isn't being managed and that he needs something a bit stronger. I would encourage him to pester the GP. Has he had proper X-rays etc done?

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

Might it help to think of the shoe being on the other foot?

What would your DH do if it were you that were in his position?

Would he put up with you speaking to him and the children as he is?

Change work hours? Be available to listen to you kvetch?

I have no doubt he's in pain, and I know from experience that pain can and will do funny things to people's personalities, but if you're feeling put upon and he wouldn't service your needs in this way, then just stop.

Poor him though, he must be feeling bloody awful. Still no excuse to be a twatbadger!

[Mintyy]

If he is normally an okay sort of bloke then I would cut him a little slack.

If he has been admitted to hospital (?) then there is obviously something seriously wrong with him.

[laundryeverywhere]

I realise this is the feminist board, but I was like your Dh when I was ill with a bad back. I expected Dh to look after me and be nice even if I snapped at him. And I probably moaned a lot. Some people are bad patients I am sorry to say. The answer is to give him lots of strong drugs.

[Orangeanddemons]

I've got an agonising trapped nerve in my back atm. I still get up, help dd get dressed, put washing on etc. Dont expect anyone to look after me, just totally out of it on painkillers.

[SmashingTurnips]

Thank you for the replies. I think it is the "caring" and "servicing" thing so thank you for that.

I hope he will be having some sort of scan today so they know what is wrong. Doctor thinks it is sciatica but of course they need to know why. DH is in hospital because he asked our doctor to have him admitted and doctor said ok because he can't give him stronger painkillers at home. We are in France, I suspect that a UK doctor would not have admitted him. Actually culture may be part of the issue.

I am cutting him plenty of slack because he is a decent bloke and I guess that is why I'm saying these things here and not to him.

Last night for example he sent a text to my DDs phone (mine is on the blink) saying he wanted to speak to me. I sent a text back asking what was up (thought he might have news from the doctor). He just wanted to have an exchange about how bad he was feeling and how rubbish he felt the hospital were being. I didn't mind doing it and was trying to be sympathetic but positive. Put the phone down for about 3 mins to put DD2 back to bed and came back to a couple of texts about how he is all alone and I don't care. It probably seems like a ridiculous example but it made me cross. I'm going to think about the "servicing" thing - I think that is where I get resentful, when I feel like we have crossed that line and if I don't do it DH is critical of me.

He does have slight hypochondriac tendencies and I don't want to service that. Also I resent being made to feel terribly worried when perhaps things are not as serious as his fear makes him tell me they are. Perhaps we will get terrible life changing news today about what is wrong with him but perhaps not and I refuse to worry myself sick until we get a diagnosis.

[AuntieStella]

If he is anxious, he's anxious and you can't really do anything about it. Because it's a perfectly reasonable short term response to medical uncertainty.

Yes, it would be nice if his manner was as you think yours would be in the circs, but I think that during a short period of known stress you do have to aim off for it, unless it becomes really outrageous (and I didn't get the feeling from your post that it had).

If you don't want to hear the details, you don't have to. But I don't think that's terribly good communication. Because when something is vitally important to someone, it's again perfectly reasonable that they want to talk it out and it's their timetable that matters. You may also be storing up future 'see-saw' type problems if he concludes that the listening end of communication isn't valued within the partnership and therefore makes no effort, or cuts you short, should you ever be deeply concerned for your health (or anything else) and want to talk it through.

It is unreasonable of him however to expect you to rearrange your work (at this stage, if a serious diagnosis is confirmed. Then compassionate leave may be in order) or to expect you to be more available to take calls during your working hours than you normally are.

[WorraLiberty]

The above has got my back up though because it feels like I'm expected to do more than act like a supportive kind partner. I feel like I'm expected to act like a wife IYSWIM?

What does that mean?

[Bubblesinthesummer]

I realise this is the feminist board, but I was like your Dh when I was ill with a bad back. I expected Dh to look after me and be nice even if I snapped at him. And I probably moaned a lot. Some people are bad patients I am sorry to say. The answer is to give him lots of strong drugs.

^Agree.

I have constant back pain for which I have had and awaiting further surgery as well as being very strongly medicated.

He must be pretty bad tbh to be in hospital. They usually don't admit for back pain or trapped nerves unless bad.

[shovetheholly]

I think people are missing the point. You ARE being caring - you are going above and beyond to look after him. You're just not dropping everything to be at his bedside day and night because there is absolutely no real need. There is not really any question of a serious diagnosis by the sounds of things - as far as you know, he has sciatica. While it is painful and debilitating it is by no means life-threatening and does not demand that you hover constantly at his bedside or that you are available 100% of the time on the phone.

Yes, I get that he is anxious about illness. But you're not being unsympathetic. You're offering very decent amounts of empathy, but you're trying to balance his needs with childcare (which no-one else can do now he is unwell) and keeping your family show on the road, both of which place you under strain. Breaking off a conversation to ensure that your childrens' routines are disturbed as little as possible by his illness is completely reasonable. The PA texts are not OK, nor is his guilt-tripping about being 'alone'.

Stick to your guns - be firm and fair and don't rise to the PA stuff. Set expectations at the start of the conversation, e.g. 'I've got 30 minutes before I have to put DD to bed and I thought it would be lovely to hear your voice. How are you doing?' Listen for a reasonable time, and then keep on keeping on. It's tough work looking after everyone - good luck.

[Shutthatdoor]

It is unusual to be hospitalised for back pain to be fair. Usually it is medicated at home.

[tribpot]

They are in France, though, Shutthatdoor - I can't imagine anyone being hospitalised here because of 'mere' backpain (and I have had one bout of true sciatica and it was agonising). It was also done at the DH's request - again, no-one gets admitted to hospital here just because they ask to be.

I have a different perspective in that I am a dreadful patient, I hate being ill, whilst my DH is stoic despite living in chronic pain. In fairness he is not really expected to do anything, but will try to step up as best he can when I am ill. Except for when I am physically unable to get down the stairs to the kitchen I never get anything made or brought up for me, though (because unless physically immobilised it is still easier for me to get there rather than him).

That said I wouldn't tolerate any 'I'm all alone and you don't care" bullshit - nor would I inflict that on my DH. For one thing, the reason he is all alone is because you are looking after his child, does he have a solution to that? And the other reason is because there is nothing you can do for him.

So I would say to some extent it is a personality issue, about being a crap patient. But nevertheless it isn't for you to make endless allowances for this.

[SmashingTurnips]

Thank you for all the replies. It is helpful to get different points of view. DH is definitely not a good patient and that is what it is - lots of people are like that.

When I say I feel like I'm being expected to act like a wife I mean I should be at the beck and call of the man of the house and doing it with the patience of a saint. I think I'm posting here about it because it got me thinking about expectations of women. I'll try to give an example. Don't want to bash my poor DH too much as he is in serious pain and as many have pointed out, actually in hospital.

Okay so I finally got hold of him around midday (was feeling a tiny bit cross after him putting the fear of God in me yesterday not to have news earlier). Phone connection was rubbish so we didn't talk for that long. I'm off today as I worked at the weekend. We are in France so I have DD2 home for lunch until 13h30 and I need to pick DD1 up at 15h00. We have planned to go and see DH at 17h00 as DD 1 finishes school at 16h30. DH has asked me to go to his work and pick up his laptop so that he can try to work. He wants me to bring it sooner rather than later so asked if I could bring it after dropping DD1 off at 13h30. The hospital Is 30 mins away. Of course I can do that and he could have his computer at 14h00 instead of 17h00. It kind of takes up my whole afternoon though to do that plus school runs and it means me going to the hospital twice.

This is the sort of thing I mean. I guess the point of this thread is that all this stuff is making me think about illness in patriarchal society and expectations. My DH has got this attitude from somewhere and he is a decent bloke so it feels socialized to me. Maybe I'm overthinking it and this is down to personality rather than anything wider. It does feel a bit "the personal is political" however.

Thanks to everyone for your comments, flowers, understanding, etc.

[Duckdeamon]

If he's unwell enough to be in hospital he shouldn't be working anyway.

I'm often the first to call "wife work" and be hard on men! But think you're being unreasonable here. what he has sounds very painful and frightening. Back and neck problems can be really debilitating and hugely affect quality of life. Nerve damage can be permanent. It's not certain whether he will be OK and pain free in the future - hopefully he will be but you don't know that. Not surprising that he's scared and wants you there. Understandable that its difficult to leave work/the DC but it sounds like he's in a bad way physically and emotionally.

[SmashingTurnips]

No, I don't think he should be working either but it will stress him not to try so I'm perfectly willing to get his laptop.

I'm willing to accept that I'm being unreasonable and I can see that he is in terrible pain and hence distress.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit wrung out by his tendancy to assume the worst.

[shovetheholly]

But - to restate again - you're not being unsympathetic. you've said - repeatedly - that you are being empathetic to his face, and that you're coming on here to have a bit of a moan because you are also stressed by this. That's completely reasonable! I think sometimes people don't understand that self-control exists and one can be really quite stressed inside yet smile and do the whole Florence Nightingale bit on the outside.

What I hear in your posts is someone who is themselves trying to control their anxiety, and to get everything done, working in a context where someone else is making demand after demand - like you driving 30 minutes to the hospital just so he can have two extra hours on his laptop! It is not in any way 'mean' or 'wrong' of you to think that he can get a magazine or a book and amuse himself for a couple of hours until you bring the laptop later on. Nor does it mean that you're not a loving wife that you're thinking about your kids and their schedules alongside his.

Yes, back pain is debilitating. Yes, he deserves the sympathy he is getting. But no, that does not mean that you are suddenly obligated to do every little thing that he demands!

[Duckdeamon]

In your shoes wouldn't rush to take the laptop, just take it later once youve done the other things. But I would try to sort out some childcare (paid or friends) and go and spend time with him and see what's going on.

It's hard not having local family support when stuff like this happens, I and DH are often tempted to bury head in sand and try to carry on as normal, not take time off work, do school runs etc. but sometimes partners do need the other more than the DC needs them at that point. Several couples we know have called on friends to help with childcare when one has had an illness or injury, for short times, it has been OK but people are glad to help when they can. BIL was injured and in hospital for a couple of weeks last summer and SIL phoned round, DH and other family members travelled and took time off work to look after their three DC.

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you" also comes to mind with respect to his health anxiety. Hopefully he'll be fine but until you know for sure might be good to make time for him.

[Bubblesinthesummer]

I'm often the first to call "wife work" and be hard on men! But think you're being unreasonable here. what he has sounds very painful and frightening. Back and neck problems can be really debilitating and hugely affect quality of life. Nerve damage can be permanent. It's not certain whether he will be OK and pain free in the future - hopefully he will be but you don't know that.

I think the crux of it is it could be scared and very frightened. The fear of the unknown.

My sciatica, nerve damage and slight slipped disc has lead to me now being in a wheelchair.

for you though OP as I know I'm not the best of people to be around when my pain is at its worse.

[BarbarianMum]

Bear in mind also that you are probably the only person he feels able to express his fears and worries to - in patriachal systems men are supposed to be physically uncomplaining, stoic and unemotional (this may also make you uncomfortable when he isn't).

As for the laptop thing, I think that's an excellent example of illness in patriarchal society - he feels unable not to work (that would be showing weakness) and you are expected to on hand to facilitate this.

for both of you. Illness is shit for everyone involved.

[anothernumberone]

This is a sad reflection and admission from me here but I am s terrible patient. If I was really in a bad way my dh would be caring for me in the manner you describe. The shoe on the other foot I would really try to do the same except dh is not the worst patient. It took actual pneumonia for me to stop calling what I presumed was a cold 'man flu' because until he keeled over he just kept cracking on. I think you are being a bit harsh.

[tribpot]

I think the laptop thing is unreasonable. If he's ill enough to be in hospital he's too ill to be working. So expecting you to take a huge chunk out of your afternoon, when you're already planning to visit him later, is being entitled.

[WorraLiberty]

When I say I feel like I'm being expected to act like a wife I mean I should be at the beck and call of the man of the house and doing it with the patience of a saint.

Is that how you see wives?

Sorry if I'm being dense (I promise it's not on purpose!)

But it sounds as though you're saying you think married women are at the beck and call of the 'man of the house'?

[Duckdeamon]

Yes, he's being unreasonable about the laptop. Could be out of fear about consequences at work of being off sick. Employers can be rubbish and people put expectations on themselves too.

DH works too hard and tried to work when in hospital a few years ago for appendicitis (he lugged the laptop to hospital with him despite being doubled over in pain when the GP told him to head there asap). He got short shrift from the nurses when he tried to connect it!

[Eminado]

"I think people are missing the point. You ARE being caring - you are going above and beyond to look after him. You're just not dropping everything to be at his bedside day and night because there is absolutely no real need. There is not really any question of a serious diagnosis by the sounds of things - as far as you know, he has sciatica. While it is painful and debilitating it is by no means life-threatening and does not demand that you hover constantly at his bedside or that you are available 100% of the time on the phone.

Yes, I get that he is anxious about illness. But you're not being unsympathetic. You're offering very decent amounts of empathy, but you're trying to balance his needs with childcare (which no-one else can do now he is unwell) and keeping your family show on the road, both of which place you under strain. Breaking off a conversation to ensure that your childrens' routines are disturbed as little as possible by his illness is completely reasonable. The PA texts are not OK, nor is his guilt-tripping about being 'alone'.

Stick to your guns - be firm and fair and don't rise to the PA stuff. Set expectations at the start of the conversation, e.g. 'I've got 30 minutes before I have to put DD to bed and I thought it would be lovely to hear your voice. How are you doing?' Listen for a reasonable time, and then keep on keeping on. It's tough work looking after everyone - good luck"


^^

Holly for president