Gender Identity Specialists warn of “ever increasing tide” of Transwoman Sex Offenders

(111 Posts)
QueenStromba Sun 13-Sep-15 10:05:54

The British Association of Gender Identity Specialists have agreed with radfems about the transgender movement attracting sexual predators. They claim to have dealt with an increasing number of incarcerated sexual predators who they believe to be pretend transexuals who wish to transition to gain special privileges and access vulnerable women. They are also worried that they have lost the right to not treat individuals who they believe are not really transgender or who will pose a threat once transitioned.

The relevant excerpt of their testimony to the parliamentary committee looking into the GRA is here at Gender Trender and the whole testimony can be found as a PDF here and makes for interesting reading.

TiggyD Sun 13-Sep-15 11:26:49

...about the transgender movement

It's a movement rather than a lot of people with a condition? That must mean I'm also in the Eczema movement. Who'da thought it.

From the article you link to: "Testimony admitted by the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists to the Transgender Equality Inquiry in the UK Parliament took a surprise turn when members sounded the alarm over what they warned is an "ever increasing tide?? of transwoman criminal sex offenders. They outline how sex-offending transwomen whom they describe as ??pretend transsexuals?? adopt a transgender identity for various nefarious purposes, often involving increased access to vulnerable women and child victims.

ever increasing tide I'm sure the term "tide" was condemned when applied to refugees because it was dehumanising.

Criminals pretending to be trans to get a perceived easier life? You just can't trust criminals can you? 'Some people claiming to be trans in prison are not really trans' is very different to 'all people claiming to be trans in prison are not really trans'. If criminals are pretending to be something they're not it's not the problem of the group they're pretending to be from. If they were pretending to be Jewish they would not be described as 'sex offending Jews', so why are people who are not trans described as " sex-offending transwomen"?

slugseatlettuce Sun 13-Sep-15 11:35:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 11:46:53

I think it was always obvious that a certain type of man would see opportunities with this.

This is one of the main reasons that many women have problems with the idea that anyone who says they are a woman is a woman and must be allowed to access all "female only" situations. Women and girls know that men with bad or pervy intentions want to access them and their spaces, the questions have always been around, how can we protect ourselves from the "bad guys" in all of this? The push to include people with fully functioning male genitals and people who identify as female part-time in the category and allow them access is problematical for lots of women and girls. At the moment we are afforded protection from perves to a large extent by keeping all males out. This gives those males an "in", and one that if they get challenged on they have the weight of the law behind them.

And sure maybe it doesn't happen very often, but it is happening more, and as men with bad intentions twig on to this I would be very surprised if it doesn't increase and this puts women and girls at risk, how can it not. A pervy man can now gain access to areas that he would have had trouble accessing before. And we know, as women, that there are a worryingly large number of pervy men out there.

Beachcomber Sun 13-Sep-15 11:48:03

Of course transgenderism is a movement. It is deeply political. That doesn't mean that every transgender person is involved in the movement, just as not every woman is involved in feminism. And there are plenty of people who are involved in transgenderism or who bolster the movement who are not trans themselves.

Transgenderism is a men's rights movement TiggyD. It is also an anti woman, particularly anti lesbian movement.

Transgenderism is also a movement of medical experimentation and a corrective movement which deals with people who are noncompliant with heteronormative gendered society.

Comparing transgenderism to eczema shows how little you understand of the phenomenon.

slugseatlettuce Sun 13-Sep-15 12:14:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

vesuvia Sun 13-Sep-15 12:44:15

"the transgender movement"

TiggyD wrote - "It's a movement rather than a lot of people with a condition?"

Perhaps you are confusing the transgender movement, also known as transgenderism, with people who are transsexual?

It's an easy mistake to make because people often assume transgender is exclusively about transsexual people and that the terms are synonymous. This is no longer the case, although between about 1950 and 1995 the terms would have been accurately interchangeable.

QueenStromba Sun 13-Sep-15 12:48:58

Tiggy, one of the points that many of us have been trying to make for years now is that even if all genuine transwomen were lovely, non-violent and not sexual predators, there will be horrible, violent, sexual predators who use the fact to their advantage that all you have to do to gain access to women's spaces is to claim that you feel like a woman. This point has been shouted down by yourself and others but has now been confirmed by the very doctors who treat them. Not only that, they've said that they feel powerless to not provide these men with the medical treatment that will allow them to access vulnerable women amongst other things.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:12:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:15:43

It's a quote from the document itself, to be fair to the OP:

"The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather na??vely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this.

These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this."

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:18:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

annandale Sun 13-Sep-15 13:19:18

What about if there is a genuine transwoman who is also a sexual predator?

I would think that the rate of sexual assault and rape in prison of any type is higher than in the general population, and it's fairly high in the general population. I don't know that for sure, though. I'd be more concerned that prisons work on ways to reduce sexual offending and exploitation, and that society thinks about that as well. We could well end up concluding that far fewer people should be in prison at all, and perhaps that prisons should look very different.

Off to google more about rates of sexual offending in prison by country.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:19:42

I also think it's relevant, the question, "who are you to say I am trans or not?".

The context of this is that you can't see inside someone's brain, you can't decide for them, and that if someone says they are a woman then they are a woman.

So from that perspective, if someone says they are a woman in a prison context, then it is no-one's place to judge whether they are genuine or not. If you say you are female then you are female, end of story. What your background is, what you have in your pants, where your sexual interests lie, all of that is irrelevant.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:20:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:23:00

ego you want to force medical procedures on people? That is unacceptable, seriously, you can't do that. Many trans people are in very vulnerable situations and to make certain things conditional on submitting to drugs and stuff feels terribly wrong to me.

And as an aside, I can't imagine that someone who wants to gain entry to a female prison by saying they are female are going to be put off by having their pubes removed confused can you expand on that?

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:25:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:27:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:27:13

OK yes the document itself refers to an ever increasing tide of (male) inmates being referred to the gender ID people.

I really don't think the paper has been wildly mis-interpreted in that title. if someone says they are trans then they are trans. Simple as. You don't get to say "oh right these nice safe people are genuine and all the ones who turn out not to be nice and safe must have been faking it" as clearly some of the ones who are faking it will be nice and safe and some of the ones who aren't, won't.

You seem to see this in very simple terms good / bad etc people are complex.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:31:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:32:10

You talked about drugs and hair removal only.

Now you want to cut people's penises off?

Bloody hell.

You know that there are many reasons that a trans person might not want to proceed with surgery of that type, surely.

Is it because these are people who are in prison that we are talking about, that you are taking such a horrendously harsh line? I'm really shocked.

Anyway like a PP says, for me, prison should not be rife with sexual violence anyway. Why is it taken as a given that men's prisons are full of rape? This should be addressed IMO. No man should be put in a position where he is at risk of sexual violence, that's just awful. The argument is often that trans women are at high risk of sexual violence in prison so they need to be put in female prisons. What about gay men, small men, naive men, men who can't fight, men who are lovely to look at, I mean whatever it is some groups of men must be more at risk of rape in prison than others. Shouldn't they all be protected? I find the whole thing horrifying really.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:34:05

So you only accept trans people if they have had full surgery.

That is way out of step with what is being lobbied for, and what is happening in many countries, and what is the law in some.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:35:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:36:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 13-Sep-15 13:37:36

OK well it's interesting that you feel that way, but like I say, your stance is out of step with the majority of trans activism and the laws in some countries.

Egosumquisum Sun 13-Sep-15 13:39:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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