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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Rape and coercion

106 replies

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 21:41

I'm trying to think something through and I'd greatly appreciate some help!

My DP and I were discussing a well known game franchise that he plays. I haven't played it myself so only know the story second hand, if you see what I mean.

Essentially, Character A and Character B are kidnapped by the Bad Guys. The Bad Guy tells A that he has a choice; either A can rape B or he (Bad Guy) will. This is basically a means of torture, in that A must decide wether to take the 'kinder' option of doing it or allowing the Bad Guy to do it (probably with added violence)

To me, A is still a rapist and - though in a shit position - is still morally wrong (if you see what I mean)

DP disagrees. I would be interested in your thoughts, Should you care to share them

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YonicScrewdriver · 08/08/2015 21:53

What if A had a choice of hitting B or letting the kidnapper do it?

A would have committed an assault on B - the reasoning would probably be taken into account in the sentencing.

Kidnapper probably guilty of rape or conspiracy to rape B.

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:04

We did discuss the scenario with different acts - like punching, beating, tormenting etc and I still sort of felt the same. No idea about the legal consequences e.g. in court but morally I feel like the person commuting the act is still wrong.

Perhaps I am being naive but I also wonder how you could -ahem- be turned on enough to do the deed in that scenario?

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daisydukes229 · 08/08/2015 22:08

I wouldn't say that A is a rapist.
In that situation it is done as protection, the lesser of 2 evils.

They wouldn't be convicted of it either

LittleLionHeart · 08/08/2015 22:16

Legally he has the complete defence of duress but to raise it you have to fear for your life and the threat has to be immediate.

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:20

My DP had a similar argument Daisy and I think that this is what I'm struggling with. I find it hard to see rape as an act of protection. from Bs point of view she was still force into sex.

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minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 22:27

B has been raped, one way or the other. Although if noth A and B are male, whether or not it is classed as rape in the eyes of the law depends on where it is.
(Morally still rape)

Arguably B has also been sexually assualtre ad they have been forced into sex to which thry dud not consent.

The real question though, is wtf is he playing this game?

And would he still be playing if both characters were male?

And surely the miral thing is to ask A what they choose as lesser of two evils.

minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 22:30

Apologies for typos. Hope it makes some sense.

I wonder if this game is just an excuse for them to enact a rape fantasy in which they are not responsible for their characters actions? (Hence why I ask if they would still want to play the game if A and B were male )

PuntasticUsername · 08/08/2015 22:35

Sounds like a fucking awful "game", to me

LassUnparalleled · 08/08/2015 22:37

Personally the more pressing question for me is why would my partner want to play "this well known game franchise" at all?

Legally he has the complete defence of duress but to raise it you have to fear for your life and the threat has to be immediate.

I only did criminal law at first year of university and have never practised it. Oddly this was an essay subject and the answer was thought to be no- it would not stand as a defence.

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:39

Bad Guy and A are male while B is female.

To be fair, none of these are the main player and I don't think you see it happen. it is a side story. (Arguably an unnecessary one)

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VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:42

Also, I don't think A's life is threatened. I think they have a 'choice' to do it or not so would that be duress or not?

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minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 22:43

I had assumed that but ask your dh if B were male would that change his opinion?

LassUnparalleled · 08/08/2015 22:44

Well depressingly I assumed B would be female. And no I don't think it is a defence.

Sorry but I can't even begin to imagine a scenario where I wouldn't hit the roof if my son or husband brought this up in the context of a game.

minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 22:48

That is, if B could be him rather than a n other woman. Or if he were in As position would he still think it was the kinder thing to do?

Because otherwise he is in the position of being a man inagining what it is liked to be a woman being raped (by her fruend instead of bad guy) but what he really needs to be imaging is if he was being raped by a man would he really care who was doing the raping. The point is rape is rape not nice rape and nasty rape. Or he is thinking well I might rape a woman if I really had to, to help her out....ah but would he / could he do it to a man?

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:52

The series is Metal Gear Solid if anyone is familiar with it. I have only seen parts of it -it spans a lot of games and is pretty complex in terms of story but centers around war. It's usually got strong storylines with realistic characters and quite a lot of depth so I sort of thought of this 'plot' as another ethical/moral dilemma (if that makes sense). I was just surprised that DP and I felt so differently about it. Perhaps because he is emotionally invested in Character A?

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VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 22:54

Interesting point Mink. Perhaps he would feel differently if he were looking at it from B's point of view. I will bring that up.

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minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 22:59

Otherwise in this context it is 2 men effectively making a decision for a woman about what is less awful for her instead of, god forbid, A asks B.

minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 23:04

And does character B exist in this game just for this scenario? Or are they played by another rl person? Or do they have a lt role in the game.

I'd almost bet they are a token female character shoe horned into the game just so that they can be the victim of this 'friendly' rape.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 08/08/2015 23:05

I assumed that b would be male. Not sure why.

It sounds like a pretty dubious story line to me

So the person playing the game is invited to rape a woman and given an excuse for doing so, or watch another man violently rape a woman.

Super.

minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 23:10

whirlpool exactly.a 'guilt-free' rape scenario. In fact it's rape as a favour. Boak.

But it really does change it all up if B is male.

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 23:10

B is in several of the games, iirc and is a main but non playable character.

A is also a long term non playable character. The player doesn't get to choose what happens -it's part of the plot-and I don't think you see the rape.

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VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 23:13

Sorry not sure that I'm explaining it well.

It definitely changed my feelings towards character B who was 'likeable' up until then

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minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 23:15

I will be interested then to see if your dp's view changes in that case if B were male.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 08/08/2015 23:21

Why is b not likeable any more if she has to be raped?

minkGrundy · 08/08/2015 23:26

Typo? Is it A who becomes less likeable?

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