Hair length

[Moobaloo]

Hello

Long time lurker on this board. I have something niggling in my brain at the moment.

I have a toddler DS. He has chin length hair. It's very cute. It gets in his eyes so I tie the top part into a topknot thing.

Naturally he gets called a girl a lot. This happens even when he's in blue/a top with a truck on but I mostly dress him in gender neutral bright colours. I have no problem with people mistaking him for a girl, it's not their fault! I just say "he's ..." Whatever they've asked.

However what has been bothering me is the constant "why haven't you cut his hair yet" "you've got to do it sometime!" "He looks like a girl!"

Pretty much all with a negative tone.

Two things: 1. What's wrong with looking like a girl? Is this some implication that being a girl is 'bad' or a negative thing? What's wrong with girls? I feel that this could promote bad stuff if slightly older boys hear this "looking like/being a girl is bad" all the time.

And the one that's really stuck in my head: since when can boys not have long hair? There are loads of men with long hair! And the biggie - I am a twenty something woman. With short hair. I have a pixie crop. I like it, it suits me. NO ONE has ever told me to grow my hair because I look like a bloke!

Anyway. I don't really know where I'm going with this.

Suggestions of answers for the people who tell me to cut his hair?!

Thanks for the rant space x

[UptoapointLordCopper]

My DC are school age and have disgracefully long and messy hair. To all comments I shrug and say "they like it". To those who specifically say that I should do something about it I ask why and for some reason they don't pursue it.

I too have short hair, no make-up ever, and nobody has ever mistaken me for a man.

I agree with you that it's terrible that looking like or acting like a girl is a bad thing.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

I think there's two kinds of reply depending on what mood you're in. So you could just stonewall them, and reply "oh, do you think so? It doesn't bother me", and repeat repeat repeat until they learn you're not interested in engaging about it.

The other option if you're feeling a bit confrontational is to persistently question them and force them to try and explain/justify their comments. So, reply with "why is looking like a girl a problem exactly?" and so on until they give up or realize how absurd they're being!

[TeiTetua]

Say, "His dad and I aren't too concerned about it. He looks like himself, is what we say."

[HarrietSchulenberg]

Mine have all had long hair at various times. Ds3 asked to get his hair cut short when he was 6 as he decided he wanted to look like other boys, but it never bothered him before that. People always used to comment that he looked like a girl, to which I replied, "Yes, his hair is lovely, isn't it!".

Ds1 is 14 and has recently shaved his hair off "for a change", having had it below shoulder length for about a year. Although it was his choice it was influenced by negative comments from peers, teachers etc, but he seems happier now that he doesn't have to "run the gauntlet" every day.

Ds2 is the latest to have an aversion to hairdressers and currently has hair heading shoulderwards. The only problem he has is that he'll soon have to tie it back for Science, Cooking and PE, like his brother did, and I think he'll soon tire of it.

Hair length and style is such a personal thing that I pretty much leave them to it as long as they keep it clean, just forking out for haircuts when they ask. None of us really give a stuff about what other people might think.

[LassUnparalleled]

I really like long hair on men (well to be honest good long hair on young good looking men. Big Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple fan in my teens, Plant, Page and Gillan had good hair. Evan Dando had too)

For your situation I don't think I could be bothered dignifying (is that spelt correctly?) beyond a sort of Vicki Pollard "whatever" shrug.

[Pedestriana]

Funnily enough, when DD (now 4) was a baby, she had very short hair and was dressed in gender-neutral stuff. People called her 'he' and when replying, I'd say 'she'. They suggested I put a bow/flower/ribbon in her hair and dressed her in pink.

I don't understand it either. No problem with being male or female, or with identifying as either, but why people feel the need to impose stereotypes on children is beyond me.

I think you just reinforce the 'why is looking like a girl a problem?' or simply say 'oh, okay'.

[drinkscabinet]

DS didn't get his hair cut until he was 2, it's now in an old-fashioned pageboy style, his hair is still very fine and if it was cut short he'd look bald. Lots of people comment on it, even my Mum is a bit disapproving, even though his hair is the same as my brother's and DB had a shaggy haircut for years for the same reason. But all the boys in the Boden catalogue have similar hair (but with lovely curls) so I like to think we're just being fashionable.

My DDs are equally radical with their traditional bobs, all the other girls in their classes have long hair and I was told by some other parents that I was being hardline when I said I wasn't going to let them grow their hair any longer unless they could wash, dry and brush it by themselves.

[MrNoseybonk]

There is a girl at my DCs school who has always had short hair cut like a boy. Children and adults alike think she is a boy often.
I have heard parents say things like "why do her parents cut her hair like that", "she looks like a boy", "why do they make her look like a boy".
I don't think that's implying that being a boy is a 'bad' or negative thing.
I think it's just that most people expect girls to look like girls and boys to look like boys.
People get confused easily if things don't conform to their narrow expectations.
Also, toddler age boy and girls can look pretty similar, so a grown woman with short hair looks like a woman, a grown man with long hair looks like a man.
But boy children can look girl-like with long hair and girls can look boy-like.

[ChunkyPickle]

When I put DS2 in his pink dungarees (neon pink - look gorgeous with his blond curls and pale blue eyes) I've had comments 'why is your mummy dressing you like a girl'

This is when I engage my biggest grin, gaze adoringly at him whilst grabbing his hands or picking him up and blowing a raspberry at him and say 'girls are great, mummy was a girl once' - no-one can help but smile, and my point is made - but these were other mums in the playground who I need to stay on good terms with for DS1's benefit

[CrispyFern]

Yes I was going to say if you have a girl with a pixie cut you get the same thing. "She looks like a boy! Why did you let her choose that hairstyle? Are you going to grow it so you can be like the other girls with nice plaits?"

[Badonna]

There are very few things I find more tedious, petty, and ridiculous than the policing of hair length along gender lines. Women's hair length is a Big Thing with MRAs, who also mock men with long hair. My grandparents used to bore the living fuck out of me pleading that I'd grow "beautiful long crowning glory" or some such shite. Never mind that my hair was never silky or thick and couldn't possible look like what they had in mind.

Yep. This is definitely a pet peeve of mine. Thankfully, the offspring of the posters on this thread have much more enlightened role models.

[Squidzin]

My DS is 8 moths old. He was born with a lush of hair and it has grown loads...

He just looks so adorable. It flops down around his ears and I loath to chop it off! People either say he looks amazing (which he does) or he looks like a girl (which yeah he kinda does if you want to look at it that way).

Thanks for this thread! I think I will try some of these responses to the inevitable "You should cut it" comments:

"Why? What's wrong with looking like a girl?"

or "It doesn't bother me or him"

I love "He looks like himself"

I really don't see the need to cut it. The people making these comments are just jealous because either they don't have such good hair themselves or they have a child with rubbish hair.

[katienana]

I think they mean "he looks like a girl but he is a boy" not that looking like a girl is bad. Just cut his hair if it bothers you that much! I prefer it when the kids gender is obvious personally and I think all kids look better with some attention from a hairdresser.

[NoTechnologicalBreakdown]

I laughed at this op, because yes my toddler ds has beautiful hair, still curly and fairly long, and yes virtually everybody calls him a girl even if he's wearing his blue tractor t-shirt with brown trousers.

Funny how hair length seems to be the deciding factor, even after 40-50 years of having men with long hair wandering around.

I usually get apologies when I correct people, it's a shame it has to be a source of embarassment. I just say yes he's got pretty hair hasn't he. If someone told me I should cut it, I'd just ask 'why?'

Why does gendered appearance matter for pre-pubescent children? It doesn't make a blind bit of difference what gender they are at that age, beyond the fact that one group can stand up to piss. The huge separation annoys me and I don't think it helps.

[Takver]

It's very bizarre how all of a sudden it's wierd for girls/women to have short hair, and boys (maybe not so much men?) to have long hair.

DD and I got a very pointed "so they're letting boys in the women's toilets now" the other day. I'm 45, and only just over 5 foot / slightly built, not in the least masculine looking, DD is 13 and was wearing a fitted t-shirt showing her distinctly girly shape - but we both have short hair, so clearly we must be men . . . The woman concerned did at least look embarrassed when we said 'erm, we're both women'

[CheersMedea]

You are missing the point. It's not that it's BAD to look like a girl.

It's just not good for a BOY to look like a girl; just as it's not good for a GIRL to look like a boy. This is for all kinds of reasons. Not least because not fitting in at a young age can cause bullying, social divisiveness and emotional scars that take years to heal.

Really, little boys with long girly hair look really stupid. You should cut it. It's only you that thinks it looks cute and if it's in a top knot it's way too long.

Remember that he is too young to take that decision for himself, so you have a responsibility not to force on to him your unconventional choices. If he wants long hair when he is older, he can choose that. But for now, the people telling you to cut it are 100% right. It's cruel to force a child to look unconventional.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

That's right. Make sure they fit into their expected gender roles.

[Thurlow]

Some people just have strange expectations about hair for each gender. DD has always had loads of hair. We've kept it in a bob since she was a baby. I've had plenty of comments over the years about not letting it grow long - as if it's expected that you should want a young DD with long hair. Which they then just get food and snot it...

[Ausflug]

I think it is just that most people (for some reason) have a strong need to know whether a given person is a boy or a girl.
And hair length is a strong cultural indicator, as is clothing style and clothing colour. In fact, with a (clothed) young child, it is all you have to go on.

I think some people when they think a child is a girl, and actually it's a boy, or vice versa, feel a bit tricked, or foolish. It's not about one being better than the other.

I remember when I was a young child, there was another child at my nursery, who I was friends with, with very short shaved hair. The child was of Asian origin, and presumably came from a culture where it was the norm to shave a baby's head. I think it is to make the hair grow back thicker, perhaps.

Anyway, this child always wore pretty dresses. I remember my 3 year old self wondering why this boy always wore a dress. My dogma that short-hair=boy was so fixed, that I ignored all other information - the dresses and jewellery, the fact that "he" was referred to by everyone else using female pronouns, the fact that my parents insisted that actually, my friend was a girl... I was adamant.

Clearly it can be important to children to categorise boys and girls seperately, and they develop constructs to do so. And then some of them get to adulthood and they're still sticking to those constructs.

[ChunkyPickle]

I've heard the whole damaging/bullying thing Cheers raises on Mumsnet before - and it just doesn't tally with my experience both when I was a kid, and with what I see with my own children now.

Theres a couple of boys with long, curly hair at this school (different families) - and a couple with medium length, there's a couple of girls with very short hair too, and no one seems to bat an eyelid. None of the kids care at all. Ditto everything else - plenty of the boys have worn pink, or dress up in dresses from the toy box or in the Christmas play, the toys the kids bring in are a total mix - really, no-one cares. Yes, in general it's the boys running around after a football in the playground, but a couple of girls joined in with no problem this morning, they all get on as well as any other group of 4-7 year olds.

Perhaps I live in some easy-going Utopia, perhaps this will all change once DS1's out of infant school..

[BakingCookiesAndShit]

Um wow Medea, what an interesting post.

I have some questions about it, if I may....

Why is it bad for a girl to look like a boy or vice versa?

What is a girl or boy supposed to look like, in your opinion?

Why is it that you feel that your opinions about sex defined looks are everyone else's opinions?

Thanks awfully.

[Pedestriana]

Why are we so obsessed by gender? What does it matter what gender someone is anyway?

I remember an annoying woman going on when DD was little (with her sparse, short hair). DD was wearing a blue babygrow with pink bits on.
Woman:"Is it a boy or a girl?"
Me: "A girl, why?"
Woman: "Well it's hard to tell, dressed in blue AND pink. She looks like a boy. And such short hair"
Me: "Yes, well I'm hoping she'll be a lesbian"
Woman:

[RepeatAdNauseum]

I think people just like to be able to ID others on site.

If they can't immediately ascertain whether you are male or female and how old you are, they feel more uncomfortable.

It's absolutely their problem, though, not yours or your sons.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Pedestriana People are just weird.

People want to know the sex of children so that they can conveniently put them in little stereotyped boxes so that they don't have to waste time to look and observe to see what that little person is like. Why waste time doing that when you know exactly what boys and girls are like, eh?