US students forced to undergo vaginal probes

(53 Posts)
TheBlackRider Wed 20-May-15 12:56:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBlackRider Wed 20-May-15 12:58:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

INickedAName Wed 20-May-15 13:23:16

Using volunteers, including students, for medical sonography training is a nationally accepted practice, said Carol Traynor, spokeswoman for Valencia College in a statement on Monday.

I think they need to look up the definition "volunteers"

TheBlackRider Wed 20-May-15 13:27:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FujimotosElixir Wed 20-May-15 13:28:16

oh god that is horrendous!

scallopsrgreat Wed 20-May-15 13:29:09

"...which describes the probe as large and not recommended for women who have not had sexual intercourse." hmm

This is just awful. What the hell were they thinking (the University not the poor women obviously)?

And 'coerced'? Pretty minimising language. Blackmailed/threatened more like.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Wed 20-May-15 13:29:13

I presume none of the male students were bullied and coerced into 'volunteering' for prostate exams?
It's awful.

TheBlackRider Wed 20-May-15 13:31:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sebsmummy1 Wed 20-May-15 13:32:07

What the hell!!!!!

scallopsrgreat Wed 20-May-15 13:32:11

Sorry TheBlackRider it was you who said coerced not the piece. Ignore me - I can see why you wrote that.

FujimotosElixir Wed 20-May-15 13:32:34

that quote sad....and lets face it not many young people that will admit to being virgins if they are.

TheBlackRider Wed 20-May-15 13:33:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scallopsrgreat Wed 20-May-15 13:33:53

Why the hell does any University think it is even a thing that women should have to do this 'voluntary' or otherwise? In front of male students with no privacy?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

BelleCurve Wed 20-May-15 14:40:54

Also this

"which at times required their bodies to be sexually stimulated by other students to facilitate insertion"

shock

dominogocatgo Wed 20-May-15 14:55:57

I guess it would be difficult to teach transvaginal sonography using male volunteers - however, the allegations about coercion and humiliation are disturbing.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Wed 20-May-15 15:03:11

They practice on dummies and on patients in teaching hospitals. There is no need for student volunteers.

ErrolTheDragon Wed 20-May-15 15:03:27

Does anyone know what the normal teaching methods are in other institutions (US and elsewhere)? I can't believe this is the norm...worse still if it is, but horrible either way.

fourchetteoff Wed 20-May-15 15:06:50

No one should be coerced in that way.

That being said, during my training we were all 'guinea pigs' for each other for all sorts of procedures. Not vaginal ones though!

StupidBloodyKindle Wed 20-May-15 15:13:24

Oh Jesus...those dildo cams? really? I was in my forties when I first had one of them. They were standard with dc2 and dc3 but I found them completely and utterly mortifying. Those poor women.

StupidBloodyKindle Wed 20-May-15 15:19:00

Also requiring sexual stimulation, wtaf? shock
Funny that, seeing as my gynaes, both male/female, just used a shitload of lube. (and I am not being facetious calling it a dildo cam, they are quite large and as intrusive as speculums). I would also not want to be coerced into weekly smear tests either. hmm

catellington Wed 20-May-15 15:19:19

This is terrible. But what about at this which is linked to in the article:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/health-when-its-the-vagina-use-a-personal-touch-rob-stepney-explains-how-medical-students-are-gaining-vital-examination-experience-tactfully-1371062.html

Can't believe this was going on until 1994 sad

TinklyLittleLaugh Wed 20-May-15 15:27:35

Regarding the link.
In the nineties a friend of mine suspected she had been vaginally penetrated while under anaesthetic for an unrelated operation. I remember we were all very sceptical until the medical student sister of someone pointed out that it was perfectly common practice. Quite horrible.

stitch10yearson Wed 20-May-15 15:30:34

In UK medical schools, examinations of genitalia are practiced on plastic dummies. And then on patients who are asked for permission, without the students in the room, or at least behind a curtain. This is horrendous. Chest examinations are almost always practiced on male medstudents, which is sexist, but simpler. Girls practice on girls. Very rarely do the boys have a chance to practice on female medstudents until they do them on patients. We had these godawful fake breasts that you strapped on to simulate breast examinations. but I would rather that than let a colleague examine my breasts in a teaching situation, let alone allow the insertion of a probe.

Actually, there is another issue here. What happens if they find something abnormal? Generally, students tend to be young and healthy, what if they aren't? Huge issues around patient confidentiality, and the ethics of that, let alone the bullying situation.

There is absolutely no need to practice intimate exams on anyone without proper consent. Plastic anatomically correct models are not that difficult to access. Neither are patients, who are usually very willing to help further medical teaching.

stitch10yearson Wed 20-May-15 15:34:57

I once felt coerced into using myself as a mannequin for an examination requiring exposure of my calves. I had hairy legs. Should have felt able to say no, but tbh, i wasn't that fussed. I am just so completely and utterly gobsmacked by these articles. This is just not the way teaching occurs in the UK.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers Wed 20-May-15 15:35:08

The change is a good example of the need for the public to raise issues which some gynaecologists had not even thought of

Wtf! Issues like whether or not it's ok to put things in a woman's vagina without asking them first? Nobody thought of that?

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