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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is Blue Peter sexist??

20 replies

thejanuarys · 17/04/2015 13:46

My eight yr old daughter has been captivated by Project Petra, Blue Peter's project to find the best spy, cos she thinks she can be a good one. Obvs I agree. Anyway, for the last few wks, she's been watching and in the penultimate round, three (or was it two) clever bright girls got eliminated, and three boys won, even though the girls got top scores in the Q&A re observation. (One boy was the outright winner, but he was older). The boy, Finlay, hardly got any questions right at this stage, however, during the last part, the interview stage where the girls performed very well and gave thoughtful resumes, he charmed the Judges with a joke. Now, there is no denying that Finlay is likeable. But the girls are too, and they got more of the questions right, and they participated more in the previous group activities. So, my question is: Is Blue Peter sexist? I have known and heard about the thousands of examples of where bright, clever, diligent, thoughtful, team playing lovely girls miss out on a chance because the boy appears to be more charming/personable. Now, there is no denying that being charming/personable is a good thing, however, when actual clear intelligence has been shown by the girls, and they were personable as well, then surely, they should have won/got though? And the final stage was not even a test - it was the prize - of exploring the M15 building and interviewing the Director General. Surely the clever intelligent girls could have had this chance? As my disappointed daughter said 'It's not fair - the girls were cleverer and they solved more puzzles.' I have to agree. Anyone else see this? Is Blue Peter unintentionally sexist?

OP posts:
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PuffinsAreFictitious · 17/04/2015 13:51

I haven't watched it, but heard about it on R4 and did think it was a tiny bit odd that not a single girl got through. UNintentional sexism and sexist bias happens all the time, when we really don't mean it, and yes, I suspect that that's what happened here.

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Lio · 17/04/2015 13:53

Hi, I watched this the other day with my dd (also 8yo) and she said she was upset and angry that no girls had been chosen. Unfortunately I hadn't seen the selection process, so wasn't able to back her up by saying what you say above (that the girls had done very well and there didn't seem to be any reason not to pick them).

I note that the presenters were 2:1 male:female too. Is that still the norm for BP?

At least Iggy is a girl Smile

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LineRunner · 17/04/2015 13:54

It sounds horribly reminiscent of my childhood.

Boys were expected and encouraged to be confident and cheeky, taught to be so, and rewarded and selected for being so.

Girls were discouraged from being confident and cheeky, and so could never win. If they did show these traits, they were considered pushy and rude: if they didn't, then they were not as good as the boys.

Awful times. Sad if there are still elements of this at play.

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drinkscabinet · 17/04/2015 23:29

Heard the discussion with the winners and did wonder aabout this. If MI5 want to attract more women then having female winners of this would have inspired a generation.

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 18/04/2015 13:26

Inspired me to look at MI5 site and they are inviting people to register interest in becoming spies right now! Anyone up for it?

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PuntasticUsername · 18/04/2015 22:48

Thing is...for "spies" aka intelligence officers, being charming and personable isn't just a nice-to-have, it's an absolutely key job requirement. You need to be able to get to know people easily, make them laugh, make them feel you are on their side, get them to trust you, be able to persuade them to steal secrets for you...

Obviously being intelligent and hard working is important too, but charisma is a crucial quality, and innate - it is impossible to teach.

Nb I didn't actually watch the Blue Peter thing so I don't know, I'm just saying that if the competition aimed to find "the best spy", picking the charming kid doesn't on the face of it look to be a totally unreasonable decision.

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/04/2015 11:59

I didn't see it but it sounds like they had 5 final contestants, 2 girls 3 boys, and the 3 boys won.

So while obviously the best need to win, it si a shame that the outcome fundamentally will have given the message that this isn't for girls IYSWIM, that they don't cut the mustard, don't have the right qualities or whatever.

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BakingCookiesAndShit · 19/04/2015 12:20

Whirlpool, they are looking for more females to apply, because even military intelligence knows that sometimes women are the best people for the job, especially as we are dealing with more and more Islamic countries, where male 'spies' won't be able to interact with assets in a lot of cases.

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/04/2015 12:23

Well this is what II'm assuming (not having seen it) that it was really an advertising campaign to get kids interested in working for MI5 when they get bigger, IYSWIM. And on that basis, and knowing they want more females, it seems bizarre that they didn't make sure at least one winner was female.

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sooperdooper · 19/04/2015 12:27

I think it's a real shame not one of the girls got through to the final

I don't think the programme as a whole is sexist though, if anything the female presenters so much harder challenges/sports activities all the time. When Helen Skelton was on it she was an incredible role model and Lindsay is training for a marathon and abseiled down the building a little while ago

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sooperdooper · 19/04/2015 12:28

If they'd 'made sure' one of the winners was a girl, wouldn't that have meant fixing it though, since the outcome was the three boys?

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BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 19/04/2015 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/04/2015 12:44

It sounds like winning was pretty subjective - so not like a maths test and who got most wins but more based on non-tangible skills, and the girls all did well or better than the boys at the tangible stuff. So, it came down to a matter of opinion rather than "you got 10 out of 15 so you win" IYSWIM.

Anyway yes. So it hinges on whether it was a genuine competition or if MI5 were using it to get themselves into the minds of children for future recruitment. If the former, and the message "this is not for girls" is acceptable, then fine. If the latter, and given that they want more women, then they fucked it up big-time.

Like advertising for jobs - if you want eg more ethic minority women then you show ethnic minority women doing it, so that people think "people like me can do that maybe I'll try it". And you do that even if the true picture of the people doing it is that they are invariably middle aged white blokes. If they want more females applying, and this was a tool to encourage that in future, then they cocked it up didn't they.

It's interesting.

Is it a shame for all the female children watching that out of 5, the 3 boys won, yes, it is a shame. Still, maybe sets them up for life, eh Smile

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00100001 · 19/04/2015 12:47

no, it isn't.

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PuntasticUsername · 19/04/2015 13:30

If it's a competition, the best candidate has to win. That's the only fair thing to ALL the candidates. If it's actually not a competition but a way to show that women can work for MI5 too, then maybe a competition isn't the right way to do it if you simply intend to fiddle it so that a girl wins no matter what Hmm

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/04/2015 13:36

I was just looking at it and there is a lot of talk about "recruiting" future MI5 employees. Additionally, it talks about code breaking and so forth, rather than just the James Bond type roles - the actual spy people I imagine are far fewer in number than all the analysts supporting them. And from that perspective it seems more of a shame that the girls were excluded on the intangibles while they did the same as, or better than the boys at the tangible stuff.

It does feed through though doesn't it - and again am going on what the OP wrote as I didn't see it myself - with the "yes you did as well as / exceeded the males at the measurable items, however we are still going to give the promotion / prize / bonus / funding / job to the man because, well, we just think he's better".

Like I say though I didn't see it so am going on the OPs word about the performances of the children on the show. I mean clearly if the girls were a bit shit and the boys were just better then that's fair enough. It doesn't feel like that's how it was though.

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tribpot · 19/04/2015 13:37

It doesn't sound like it was explained how they were scoring the contestants - which is pretty poor for a children's show of BP's quality. Can you tweet them and ask them to clarify?

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/04/2015 13:37

Oh so unconscious bias is what I'm driving at there if it's not clear!

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PuntasticUsername · 19/04/2015 13:37

It does seem that there is definitely a point there about transparency of judging criteria, yes.

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PuntasticUsername · 19/04/2015 13:47

Yes, I was wondering about unconscious bias too - whether the judges were unwittingly perpetuating the whole traditional "he's an old boy of my college - no, no need to vet him, he's Quite Alright" thing that definitely doesn't happen there any more oh no.

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