Help! Mean mummies!

[IAmBumblebee]

Not sure where to post this - it definitely feels like a 'feminist' issue...

Just got back from my friend's house having a long (very teary) chat with her. Apparently she's been having ongoing problems with some 'mean mummies' at her dd's (primary) school.

Another 'Playground Politics' thing.

This is the first I've really seen how much it's affected her - she said she didn't want to mention it because it seems like such a trivial thing - "what's five minutes at the school gate?" - but it's five minutes, five days a week, every school week for almost a year... and it's torn a little piece of her away every time.

The 'clique' mommies huddle together, leave my friend out, snub her when she approaches them, make her feel inadequate etc. My friend is such a wonderful, kind, loving person. I can't imagine why anyone would treat anyone like this, let alone a woman who is as amazing as my friend.

I didn't know what advice to give her, other than that she always had my shoulder to cry on.... I just feel so helpless!!

Has anyone else had any experience of this? And if so, what did you do about it??

Please help!

[CultureSucksDownWords]

From my point of view it's a lucky escape. Why on earth would she want to be friends with people who can behave so childishly and stupidly?

I would advise her to cut her losses and simply ignore them. Don't initiate any contact that isn't necessary, and simply be cool and calm with them. It's not a snub to her, it's them demonstrating how idiotic they are.

[TheCowThatLaughs]

I don't speak to anyone on the school run. Your friend would be better off saving her energy for her real friends
It doesn't seem like a feminist issue to me though, more of a relationships one really.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

No experience of this but wasn't looking for friends amongst the other mothers. Collection at end of school day was done by his nanny not me and dropping off in the morning was usually running far too late for work anyway to engage in chat. They all seemed pleasant enough at the end of year dinners and Christmas dinners/birthday parties which was really the only contact I had.

Agree save her energy for real friends.

[Efferlunt]

Best drop off smile blandly but don't engage. I speak as someone who really wanted to make a few friends at the school gate being new to the area. It really upset me for a while but you once you realise it's not going to happen and that you can't make it it's very liberating.

[MrsCakesPrecognitionisSwitched]

I know the cliques can be a pain but how many parents are there dropping their children each day? 100? 200? They can't all be in the same friendship group and your friend the only one on the outside. Your friend needs to ignore the clique, not give them headspace they aren't worth it. Look at the other mums standing on their own and go and say hello.

[Efferlunt]

I think it kind of is a feminist issue though. Blokes don't have this pressure to integrate themselves in the community. I know that DS has some lovely friends but I worry as they are always popping in and out of each other's houses and he isn't thus making it harder for him to be part of the gang. I feel like it's one more thing that's on me to solve along with making sure he has all the right things on the right day and remembering school concerts etc. DH does have to trouble his head about any of this. It's the definition of wife work.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Why doesn't she just walk past them without trying to say hi I don't chat to many school run mums or dads for that matter, only the ones that DS is connected to. It bothers me precisely zero because I don't take it personally. There is a clique of mums who all do facebook and everything but as I don't think we would have anything in common I don't care. She needs a thicker skin!

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Effer my DS doesnt have his dad involved in school runs like at all and I don't join in the socialising and yet he still manages to have a social life. It's not obligatory.

[tribpot]

Is it really a feminist issue? Other than possibly in the sense that women feel a pressure to be liked by everyone and are less able to handle it when they aren't. (Which sounds unsympathetic towards your friend, I don't mean it to). That said, I have seen many men managing teams poorly because they want to be everyone's mate and don't want to make hard decisions. So I suspect this is more of a human condition than anything else.

Cliquey behaviour is horrible but she truly doesn't want friends like that anyway. They can't be the only people in the playground. Can she make her timings very exact so she arrives just as the bell is ringing?

If you wanted to help, can you go with her a few times so she has someone to talk to once in a while?

[nikkinack]

I don't get from the OP why this is a feminist issue either.

And, referring to a group of women as 'mean mummies' doesn't seem like a particularly feminist act...

[TheWhiteRoad]

Why would she want to be friends with people who don't want to be friends with her? ALL parents can't be in this group either. There must be a good few who aren't even if it's a small school.

From what you've posted though they don't sound particularly bad. One persons clique is another's tight friendship group.

Personally because I am an antisocial sod I have actively avoided people at the school gate. When DD started school, I realised the very last thing I needed was to launch into possibly I'll advised friendships with people I'd potentially have to see every day for 7 years. I make small talk occasionally but sunglasses on and iPod in discourages most people most of the time.

I basically don't give a stuff what any of them think about me though.

I don't think it's a feminist issue. Unless you think so because women are 'supposed' to be nice to each other at all times and those that don't are automatically 'bitchy'.

[pinkyredrose]

How do they are her feel inadequate? She'd be better off just never approaching them at all, they sound like a shower of arseholes.

[meddaio]

"they sound like a shower of arseholes."

Not a fair thing to say unless they've actually done anything to the poor fragile woman who cries whenever someone doesn't want to be her friend

[ChunkyPickle]

I agree with everyone here - at our school there are people who I'll wander up to and talk to - some most days, some occasionally, there are people who I'll just nod hello to, and there are some who's eye I've probably never even caught - and this is at a tiny village school, where there are probably only 100 parents in total (both mothers and fathers).

I didn't expect to make lifelong friendships among my kids classmate's parents, we just need to be civil enough to each other to arrange playdates/the school fair!

[cailindana]

I think the issue lies with your friend to be honest. She seems to be making a huge drama out of total non-issue. As others have said, it's not possible that every single parent in the playground is crowding together and ignoring her, so clearly there's just one bunch that she's decided should be friendly to her, for whatever reason, but aren't for whatever reason. She needs to just ignore them, find someone else to chat to and perhaps work a bit on her self esteem so that something like this doesn't hit her so hard.

[YonicScrewdriver]

OP, I don't think this is a feminist issue.

Meddaio, I think you might be new? It's frowned on to post "get a fucking life" at another poster. Just a wee heads up.

[rosy71]

Why doesn't she just ignore them? When I pick my boys up from school, I do just that. I don't feel any need to try and chat to anyone.

Having said that, they're usually at afterschool club so I'm not there at 3.15, but I genuinely wouldn't be bothered by what other parents are doing.

[IAmBumblebee]

Thank you for all your responses.

I agree with all of your who suggested that she is better off not socialising with these types of people. She has lots of friends (like me!) but she lives in a different area and just hasn't 'gelled' with the locals.

'Not a fair thing to say unless they've actually done anything to the poor fragile woman who cries whenever someone doesn't want to be her friend' - This is definitely not the situation. My friend really isn't one to bemoan petty behaviour and she isn't upset because they 'don't want to be friends'. I think it's just that being alienated like this every single day would get anybody down. It's easy to say how petty and childish it all is (which, she and I would agree, that is IS just petty and silly) but that it's just tiring and repetitive.

On my school run there are of course lots of parents hovering alone, but there doesn't seem to be this 'clique' thing which my friend is describing.

She's not making a drama, really, I wish she HAD made a bigger issue and told me sooner that it's getting her down. She doesn't expect everyone to be her friend, make contact, talk to her, approach her etc. She's a very strong, independent lady - maybe that's why I'm so shocked to she her upset about this. Maybe she's just feeling a bit isolated, because, as I mentioned, she lives further away from her friends.

Again, thank you all for you responses.

[WindMeUpAndLetMeGo]

I know how she feels, I don't live in the immediate vicinity of DSs school and people rarely talk as they are all in their cliques. It's hard,and often lonely

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Bumblebee.... meddaio was a troll, one of the more virulent kinds we get on here all the time. Best ignored, certainly not someone to take any notice of.

[KERALA1]

But why are they obliged to be friends with your friend and criticised if they don't? Why is it "mean"? What obligations do we as individuals have to include strangers into friendship groups?

[IAmBumblebee]

Kerala - I agree, people aren't obliged to be friends with anyone, that isn't the issue. My friend specified that these women are deliberately 'targetting' her - they snub her if she tries to talk to them, they whisper, they turn their back etc. Just very childish behaviour. My friend doesn't expect friendship, but she certainly doesn't deserve outright hostility!

Puffins - I thought it was a bit vicious! May I ask why somebody would troll a mumsnet thread?

WindMeUp - I'm sorry to hear that you too are suffering. Do you have any advice for my friend, being in a similar position?

[LikeABadSethRogenMovie]

In that case, why would she ever want to be friends with them?!

I no longer need to do the school run as I live in an area that provides busses but, when I did, I found the easiest thing to do was just say hello to everybody as I went in and out. If they ignored me, it hadn't cost me anything and I really didn't care. I would still say hello the next day as it's just polite to acknowledge people you see every day.

[Crossfitmyarse]

I really feel for your friend and unless he has said or done something specific, like argued with one of the women, I can't imagine why on earth they would do this - it's extremely unusual to be treated this badly, as opposed to just coming up against a clique who are not very inclusive or welcoming.

I have no problem with you asking how to help her boost her self esteem over this, but it is absolutely NOT a feminist issue as far as I am concerned.