Anyone has experience of dealing with inappropriate behaviour and comments from colleagues?

[Wellthen]

Just posting for general support really and as a cathartic release. I have spoken to someone in real life about it as well and did feel much better. But I just want to get my feelings down in words.

I recently went out for some drinks with colleagues and one colleague said and did some inappropriate things. Honestly, I feel that I have been sexually harassed.

To give context, the man is my age, we work closely, get on well and have known each other for nearly 3 years. He has been flirty previously but only ever after a drink - he has never been inappropriate at work. Quite the opposite actually, I assumed he thought of me as 'one of the guys'. We have a brotherly, sisterly relationship and take the Mick a lot.

I don't want to drip feed but equally if I write out the evening it'll be huge! Basically, in the midst of what was ultimately a great night out with friends, he made reference to my breasts being too small, tried to lift my top up and again said 'too small' and at the end of the night put his arm around my shoulders and said 'we should just have sex you and me'

Context again: yes he can be sexist but ultimately this behaviour is out of character. I'm making him sound like a prize dickhead which... well, now I agree with you! But didn't until that night, I liked him. (as a friend, obviously)

When he said that i'll admit I felt a little frightened and was disgusted. I'm not suggesting he would try to over power me but I do think if we were alone he would have made a move - this would be something of a disaster as we see each other every day, I am married and we work with his girlfriend! A lot of people would have been upset. I was also left with a feeling of 'so you say nasty things, make me feel shit and then want to sleep with me? What?!'

So, my reasons for posting:
This has really been playing on my mind - as time passes I think 'oh he was drunk. Its fine, these things happen' and another voice says 'so why are you still thinking about it?'

I'm shocked at my strength of feeling. It made me feel disgusted with myself, I didn't want my partner to touch me. I felt like a prostitute, as if he didn't value me other than as meat. It made me realise how he really sees women - you are my colleague, my mother, my sister or someone to have sex with. In that moment I only existed as a sexual object. I couldn't believe he could be so unkind and crass with one breath and with another start coming on to me! I felt terrible about myself.

What if he doesn't understand? My plan is to discuss this with him when I next see him. I think he will be horrified and embarrassed and wont remember much of what happened. But what if that isn't the case? Or what if he apologises and is suitably sorry but then doesn't change his behaviour? Can I ever go out or be alone with him again?

How do I get across to him how I feel without sounding melodramatic? He didn't touch me sexually or try to kiss me and yet I do feel violated.

I guess I'm asking if I'm over reacting and if anyone else has experienced something like this. Its not sexual assault but it feels terrible.

[blueshoes]

You have every right to feel violated and are not overreacting. The next step is to take it up with him and following that, if he does not react appropriately, HR. Document everything.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

Well first of all stop feeling disgusted at yourself. You've done nothing wrong.

What he did is not similar to what Dave Lee Travis did and for which he was convicted of assault. The only charge on which Travis was found guilty related to a breast groping incident of 10-15 seconds. This man touched you in an inappropriate and unwanted manner when he tried to pull your top up.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

This part of the site doesn't get a huge amount of traffic, OP.

What has happened to you is wrong, and you would get a lot of support if you were to repost (or ask for it to be moved to) the main chat bit of the feminist boards.

Take care, glad you have someone in rl to talk to as well.

[Wellthen]

Thanks all. Its lovely just to feel people agree with me. Any suggestions for how I talk about this with him? Bearing in mind he probably doesn't remember and hopefully will be embarrassed.

I'll admit I put it here out of fear it would be seen by the person I know in real life so I didn't put it in the main chat section or aibu but perhaps feminist chat is a good compromise?

[Wellthen]

Sorry, should have said, how do I do that?

[LadyGregory]

Report your own OP and ask MNHQ to move it, OP. Sympathies - what an unpleasant thing to happen. He behaved disgracefully and I'm not surprised you feel violated, when it was a friend and colleague you trusted. Lay it on the line with him, tell him exactly what he did and be cool, factual and don't pull your punches or be swayed by whatever remorse/excuses/'I was drunk' etc he may come out with. Yes, if he minimises or tiu aren't happy with his response, HR is the next step.

Then it comes down to what you want to happen now - do you want him to keep away from you, not contact you again outside of work, and speak only on necessary work matters in the workplace?

[Wellthen]

I feel comfortable interacting with him, or at least I think I do - I won't see him again for another two weeks. But I want him to understand that it will change our relationship - perhaps forever. I'm worried that he will see an apology as the end of it and then be annoyed when I don't want to spend time with him outside of work. We never really spent time alone but we would go for a drink as a group fairly regularly. I definitely don't want to be around him when he's drunk.

If he doesn't understand, doesn't see what he did wrong, then at that point I would end interaction beyond the necessary and probably lose any respect for him I have left.

One emotion I'm struggling with is how I feel about his girlfriend - if a close fiend of mine was going out with a guy like this I would tell them to get rid immediately. He's a chauvinist and hits on other women. I worry about him breaking her heart - he's good looking and charming and I think they've gotten quite serious too quickly. The whole thing being played out to the whole work force doesn't help.

[tribpot]

You need to be dealing with this awful man in the context of your own relationship with him. His relationship with his girlfriend is not your problem and if you try to cross wires in that way it won't help you.

You certainly could report this to HR, given this was a work's night out. It doesn't matter if it was organised by the company or not. His behaviour was incredibly inappropriate.

I would be concerned about the amount of time before you next see him and waiting to report it to HR after that. Not sure what the solution to this is - once you report it the situation is out of your hands.

Have you told your DH about this? I would not keep him out of the loop.

Would it be easier to send him a factual account of what happened in an email so that you don't have to try and say all the words out loud to him?

[Wellthen]

You're right trib, thinking about his girlfriend is not helping.

I'm not currently planning on going to hr so the time between is a bonus I think cos it gives us both time to think.

I certainly could email, but I would prefer to see his reaction. But then I'm not sure, I'm worried about getting emotional. The real life person I've spoken to is also a colleague so I think i'll discuss the 'how' side of it with her.

No dh doesn't know. We, this colleague and a few others, will all be at a social function in a few weeks time. I'm worried dh would punch him at said social event. Do I really think he'd do this? Not sure. But I guess not telling him is the easiest way out at the moment.

However if I ended up going to the boss or hr then yes I would tell him.

[Latara]

I've had these kind of problems in the past with several male work colleagues.

In the past I used to deal with it by pretending nothing had happened because I did feel embarrassed like it was my fault.

Now, however, I've changed and 'don't take any shit'. So I would behave differently now.

I would confront him when you see him and say, I'm not happy about the way you behaved on X date. Please don't behave that way towards me again.

Then if he takes no notice you should take your concerns higher. It depends how bothered you are and how you feel towards this man.
It is difficult to report someone who is 'friendly' towards you, I understand that.

[sashh]

I think you should print out the paragraph that starts I'm shocked.

Do you have an HR department? If so set up a meeting ewith him and HR, if not get a neutral 3rd party as a witness.

Let him read the paragraph. He is probably embarassed by his behaviour but totally ignorant of how he has made you feel. But he has made you feel like that.

What do you want to happen? I'm thinking you probably want it to go back to how it was so discuss that with HR first, they can and shuld take action, but if you just want something on record they can do that too.

Good luck

[BreakingDad77]

I would agree with Latara - a fair number of guys still seem to think silence is consent and the behaving at work but "oh I was drunk out sorry was out of character" can be a whole charade.

What happened after he said 'we should just have sex you and me'?

This is one of these shitty things that women have to deal with as you'll be seen as the one being all funny when it was his inappropriateness. You'll have people saying yeah they were messing around all evening and he was draped all over her at the end, and then the victim blaming can start creeping in "well she wasn't putting up any resistance"

[Wellthen]

Hi all
Thanks Buffy I appreciate everyone support. I feel like a good number have replied! I just had it moved because someone suggested it.

I'm in the middle of school holidays at the moment so there's nothing to be dome right now. I spoke to another colleague straight after it happened and she agreed that I needed to take action and talk to him.

At the moment my plan, if it can be called that is to talk to her first face to face and discuss how best to bring it up. I might ask for her to be there when I talk to him.

Emotionally I'm feeling a hundred times better, probably thanks to the support I'm getting so I'm not as worried about getting emotional. But having such a serious conversation with someone I usually joke around with will be hard.

Another option is to have my colleague talk to him first. I truly dont think he will remember what has happened.

My only other option right now is to email and I just don't think that will cut it. I need t see his honest reaction.

I'm not currently planning on speaking to the boss or hr but please be assured that I will if I have any further concerns.

[Dotheyfloat]

Wellthen
"We have a brotherly, sisterly relationship and take the Mick a lot."

"He's a chauvinist and hits on other women."

So you were quite happy to treat this 'chauvinist' as your 'brother' until he directed his chauvinism towards you and now you're having a cry about being violated by your 'brother'. Nice double standard.

I've been in similar situations, minus being fool enough to regard my work colleagues as quasi-siblings; firmly telling someone to 'fuck off' usually works just fine. Next day everyone's a work colleague again and life goes on.

[Wellthen]

He's a chauvinist and hits on other women is a quote from a later post in relation to how I NOW feel about him. It relates to his girlfriend - ie I am worried for his girlfriend now that I have seen the real him.

By brotherly sisterly I meant that we have a laugh together, poke fun. There is nothing remotely flirty is what I was trying to get across. I don't see him AS my brother - I apologise if this wasn't clear.

Your later comments referring to me being a fool, having double standards and 'having a cry' are now meaningless I assume? Your problem was with the fact that I was knowingly friends with someone who treats women like this. I have now clarified that this is not the case.

As you can see if you've read the whole thread I am indeed planning on telling him that his behaviour was inappropriate. The point of the thread was indeed to 'have a cry' - I needed some support and hear what other women felt about the situation. But in doing so I seem to have annoyed you? Sorry bout that.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

What Buffy said.

Weekends seem to bring the twatbadgers out of the woodwork, sorry.

[Wellthen]

Thought as much, but didn't want to caught out hunting bridge dwellers.
Thanks ladies

[PilchardPrincess]

Welllll

And this may be way off the line

I have had this sort of thing quite a few times. Men who I worked with where there was an easygoing, friendly, laughy, bantery relationship and as far as I was concerned we were great mates and then suddenly they make a pass at you. I don't know what it's about. Maybe some men are incapable of seeing women as people first and the whole what's in your knickers things is always at the forefront of their minds. Certainly lots of men think being slightly friendly means "she's coming on to me" and so maybe think an actual friend must be a dead cert.

I just remember the feelings of utter horror when my so-called friends suddenly and with no warning flung themselves at me. And I mean, sometimes friendships are a bit flirty, there's maybe something there, but that's reciprocal isn't it. This whole unilateral decision to initiate sex stuff, with NO encouragement at all, it's just grim. And upsetting, like you think well maybe they don't even like me, they just were friends because they thought they might get a fuck out of it.

Anyway that's probably projecting a bit but just wanted you to know that this happens a lot, I mean it just does. I'm not surprised you're upset.

And it wasn't even a "nice" attempt to cop off was it, it was rude, aggressive, pulling at your clothes WTF? What an absolute arsehole.

If I were you (because I'm a wuss) I would get the friend at work you mention to have a word and tell him what he did and that you are really upset & angry & etc. I would do that for a friend and it would be easier for me to have a right go as a friend than the person it was done to IYSWIM.

Anyway. Don't know if that helps! You aren't overreacting this stuff is really upsetting it makes you doubt loads of stuff.

[Wellthen]

Hello all, thought I owed people an end to this story! A female colleague spoke to hm this week and he came to me himself to apologise. He was very embarrassed and was sad to hear he'd upset me. He didn't remember saying those things but he said he 'would have only been joking' and we talked about that a bit. He also said he doesn't really see me as 'just' a colleague.

We discussed all those points and I got across to him that it isn't just about being colleagues (though that does make it worse) - what he did was offensive in any situation and any relationship. I also explained that I was worried that he might try something on and he agreed that he doesn't know because he was too drunk to remember. He agreed that that isn't really acceptable when he has a girlfriend.

I'm left with the feeling that, because he is quite immature, he hasn't fully understood how nasty I found his comments or worrying I found his advances. But he definitely understood that he went too far and he needs to be more careful when he drinks. He feels bad to have upset me and is worried that I won't want to spend time with him. He certainly didn't make out that I was being sensitive or unreasonable. I think he will go away now and think it over and hopefully understand it a little better.

Thank you all for your support and please be assured that I am not brushing this under the carpet. He knows that if he ever goes too far with the 'banter' again then I will tell him exactly what I think, no matter where I am! My colleague also impressed upon him how serious it could have been if he'd spoken to someone who doesn't know him as well.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

I don't think he does get it. It seems he think what he did was wrong because he has a girlfriend rather than just being wrong. Full stop.

[ChopperGordino]

I agree with Still, he doesn't get it. But not sure you could have done anything else to make him understand more fully. You have handled this really well, OP. How are you feeling now?