Join us at Workfest for expert advice on kickstarting your career ×

ISIS Fighters - Living the MRA Dream?

(59 Posts)
CKDexterHaven Fri 22-Aug-14 13:53:58

For obvious reasons pilgrims to join ISIS have been in the news for the last few days. There has been lots of analysis as to why young men might do this - religious fervour, seeking adventure, social alienation, anti-Western feelings - but maybe another factor is getting to live the MRA dream. You get to live like the alpha male warrior you always knew you were, everyone succumbs to your worldview or they die, women will be your adoring handmaidens or they will be sold-off as slaves, men with more meaningful lives will be slain. Is it any wonder that, in a society that sells the fantasy of living as a hyper-macho fuckwad, some men lust for the opportunity for living as a pure hyper-macho fuckwad? Add in religion and you get to feel sanctimonious about behaviour that should have you condemned to the bottom of a padded oubliette. The ISIS world is the world MRAs would have us living in, isn't it?

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 14:31:00

Is this a wind up? An innocent man is beheaded and you want to make it about feminism?

NeoFaust Fri 22-Aug-14 14:37:14

Your probably right that the alienation many young men experience as a result of feminism might be a factor in leading them to join. This would be particularly true in subcultures that have a powerful patriarchal element relative to the host culture.

But what AICM said.

CKDexterHaven Fri 22-Aug-14 14:39:07

I'm talking about ISIS and why men join them. Violence is gendered. AICM stop hanging around a feminist board policing what women can talk about.

Please do not derail this thread by responding to AICM and allowing him to derail yet another thread.

CaptChaos Fri 22-Aug-14 14:48:56

There was an interesting article I read earlier (will see if I can find it) about how women fighters are being used a lot in the fight against IS because, if they are killed by a woman, they don't get the 70+ virgins version of heaven.

As an aside, what happened to James Foley was disgusting beyond belief, however, if you really believe that that is a reasonable assessment of what IS is doing or capable of doing, you really need to get out and get yourself informed. Unless you think that rape and forced marriage are neither important, nor suitable topics for feminist discussion?

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 14:49:25

Sorry CK I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to disagree with you.

I'll change my mind. Yes some men hate women so much they are joining ISIS so that they can behead men.

CaptChaos Fri 22-Aug-14 14:51:26

And really? Women asking to be treated as full human beings 'might be a factor in leading.... men to join ISIS?' Well, how fucking dare we? We must immediately give up any and all rights just so that disaffected youth don't go and become terrorists.

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 14:56:11

Capt

"Women asking to be treated as full human beings 'might be a factor in leading.... men to join ISIS?' "
Where did this quote come from?

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 15:01:46

CD

You accuse me of trying to police what people on here can talk about and in your next sentence you try to police what people on here can talk about by telling people not to talk to me.

CKDexterHaven Fri 22-Aug-14 15:02:39

There was another report of ISIS killing a female dentist because she treated male patients. Women and children are being buried alive because they won't convert. Women and girls are being auctioned off from the back of lorries as slaves. Women and girls are being raped as part of ethnic cleansing.

This is a feminist issue and I believe men are attracted to ISIS because they like the idea of living in a pure MRA environment.

CKDexterHaven Fri 22-Aug-14 15:03:47

This is a feminist board for feminists to debate and disagree with other feminists. It's not a board for feminists to debate with every anti-feminist in the world.

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 15:06:03

I believe this is an issue about the Islam not MRAs.

Thistledew Fri 22-Aug-14 15:13:15

People believe what they want to believe; religions don't tell them anything.

Someone who has an aggressive or bigoted world view will interpret a religion as telling them they must hold those aggressive and bigoted views. Someone who has a peaceful and loving world view will interpret religion as telling them they must have peaceful and loving views. There are plenty of both types held be people of all religions.

What is more interesting is to look at why people have those outlooks in the first place.

I am aghast at the aggressive and negative response from some posters to a feminist wanting to discuss how an extremist organisation might view women.

Do you object because said extremist organisation recently (and tragically) killed a man and we should be focusing exclusively on that? Or just because you don't like feminists talking.

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 15:31:38

But the initial post was not about how ISIS is treating women.
It was about her theory about MRAs.

<sigh>

It is a feminist analysis about why young men socialised to be hyper masculine might be attracted by ISIS's ideals.

AICM Fri 22-Aug-14 15:37:27

'Young men' or 'young Muslim men'. There's a difference.

LadySybilLikesCake Fri 22-Aug-14 15:39:16

I was reading a different board on Tuesday when the Gov announced the new changes to the UK domestic violence laws and I was shocked to read all of the MRA posts on there. I think there's a lot of people, all over the world, who don't like the way in which society is evolving, and how the status of women is changing from something to own and abuse to an equal. It's depressing. sad

I do agree with you about ISIS. They view women in a certain way and have become violent now that their 'way of life' has been changed. 2014 and it's still not safe to be female.

FairPhyllis Fri 22-Aug-14 15:50:11

I completely agree that ISIS and groups like it are, among other things, male supremacists.

slug Fri 22-Aug-14 15:54:04

To be fair, Islam is only tangentially associated with ISIS

Oh dear, I don't know whether to engage with the derail attempts of AICM et al or go with CK's request not to spoil her thread. Given that I like and respect CK and her feminist contributions, I think I'll do as she suggests and keep the thread on track.

Agree that violent 'our way or the highway' organisations like ISIS are frequently misogynist sad

LadySybilLikesCake Fri 22-Aug-14 15:58:19

Violence is mainly a gender thing though. Women talk, men fight. ISIS are men.

CaptChaos Fri 22-Aug-14 16:06:36

AICM Where did this quote come from?

The first half was a direct quote from NeoFaust's post, the part after the dots was a misquote from NeoFaust's post. Not of you, sorry.

And young Muslim men are still young men, there's no real difference however, the ones who join IS and other extremist groups of that ilk tend to exhibit some equally extreme views on the role of women. These views seem to lead to them kidnapping large numbers of young girls/women and selling them into forced marriages, forced conversion, rape and other violence against women. The OP has several parts of it which pertain to how IS treats women, and how similar that is to how MRA culture likes to see women.

Being a Muslim doesn't give anyone a main line into misogyny. Elliot Roger was a misogynistic murderer and iirc, he was also a nominal Christian. Fritzl - Christian. Leiutenant Governor of Texas - Christian. Micheal Higgins - Christian. Being a Muslim doesn't make you a misogynistic twat, being a misogynistic twat makes you one.

And yes, LadySybilLikesCake some of the responses to that announcement have been eye opening haven't they?

LadySybilLikesCake Fri 22-Aug-14 16:09:04

Very much so. Did you see the comments on the BBC?

Interesting thread. I think you're probably right, although I would caution that there are quite a lot of reasons why young men join jihadist movements, not all of which are tied to gender or notions of masculinity.

It's also worth remembering that some ISIS members will come from countries that are already a misogynist paradise (cough, cough, Saudi) so to go off and risk your life probably means something else is at play too.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now